So Long, Ultimates: Marvel Reveals Details On Ultimate End

[Fanghawk]

So Long, Ultimates: Marvel Reveals Details On Ultimate End

Ultimate End will conclude Ultimate Marvel the same way it began - with a story from Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Bagley.

It's not a popular franchise these days, but Ultimate Marvel really was something to behold in its heyday. Starting in 2000 with <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/11452-Miles-Morales-Ultimate-Spider-Man-1-A-Potential-Misstep>Ultimate Spider-Man before continuing with Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Fantastic Four, and The Ultimates, this standalone continuity had free reign to redesign superheroes without being tied to a massive continuity. It's had memorable storylines since (some controversially so), but is best known for Ultimate Spider-Man's success and establishing Brian Michael Bendis as one of comics' biggest names. But <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138210-Marvel-Launching-Ultimate-Universe-The-End-in-2015>with Secret Wars looming on the horizon, Ultimate Marvel is ending the way it began - with a story from Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Bagley called Ultimate End.

If you haven't been following Marvel Comics lately, <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/139551-Marvel-Comics-and-Ultimate-Universes-Will-Merge-In-Secret-Wars>there's been all kinds of dimensional breakdowns, the latest of which puts the Ultimate Earth on a crash-course for Marvel's Earth. It's already clear the Ultimate U won't survive the encounter, so Ultimate End will be a final send-off where heroes face the inevitable. Included in some recently released art is Spider-Man's arrival in Ultimate New York, while the two Iron Men have a less-than-friendly conversation on how to proceed.

The Ultimate Marvel line reaching its end is a little bittersweet for me. Sure, <a href=http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-X-Men-Vol-18-Apocalypse/dp/0785125507>it wasn't all good times, but being freed from Marvel's continuity let it experiment with characters in ways that wouldn't otherwise be possible. That's how Marvel was able to kill Peter Parker <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134175-Brian-Michael-Bendis-Talks-Race-Sexism-and-Ultimate-Spider-Man>and introduce Miles Morales, one of the best takes on Spider-Man in decades. It also let the Ultimate U maintain a (mostly) strict policy on dead superheroes staying dead. Outside of establishing Brian Michael Bendis as a force in comics, it proved an ample playground for creators like Jonathan Hickman, Warren Ellis, and Mark Millar. And that's not even getting into secondary characters like Aunt May and Gwen Stacey, who were absolutely wonderful in this universe - and probably won't survive the transition.

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Still, with the Marvel movies filling that alternate continuity need, perhaps it's best to say goodbye to Ultimate Marvel once and for all. Ultimate End goes on sale this May 20, 2015.

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[MCerberus]

See sometimes I feel bad that all the work on the alternate stories are going to be erased. Then I remember Ultimate Deadpool and start screaming a "skree" for hours on end and look forward to the universe being flushed.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Im sure they will cherry pick the characters that worked. Should keep Miles.

 

[Dead Metal]

Miles Morales one of the best takes on Spider-Man in decades? Are you high?
He was a neat concept and idea, achieved exactly nothing. Heck Dock Ock was a better Spider-Man, and his run was defined as him trying to surpass Peter but failing miserably.
The best take on Spider-Man that wasn't Peter was Miguel O'Hara, in the original 2099 run. The original Prowler kicks Mile's ass as Spider-Man, and he didn't even have powers.

I personally can't wait to see this Universe die and never show itself again, the good things about it have long since been outweighed by the bad. I just hope they get Quentin Beck out of there and back to 616 so he doesn't suffer the indignity to die alongside the dreck that populates it.

I do hope they save Nick Fury though, would be a shame to loose him, best version of the character.

 

[Firanai]

Good bye ultimate universe, they didn?t know how to handle you. I started reading comics with the ultimate line when I was a teenager and I had my mind blown away. The ultimate universe was never about dark an edgy. It was about real people having to deal with the insanity of superpowers.
And unlike the classic marvel universe what the heroes did in ultimate MATTERED. It wasn't like the old marvel rollercoaster: Let?s go have crazy adventures that absolutely DONT MATTER whatsoever because everything will go back to how it used to be again...and again and again and again and again....No consequences or meaningful changes of any kind.
When someone died in ultimate universe he stayed dead, when something important happened they didn?t changed it and characters evolved because of their decisions instead of constantly reverting back to their previous situation. Then ultimatum came and they turned it into a gritty parody. How could they got it so wrong? How could they confuse so badly what made ultimate good?
From there on it just got worse and worse and I abandoned it. Marvel it?s doing many things good right now, but how it destroyed the chance of having a truly human and realistic universe with superpowers? I will NEVER forgive them for that, ever.

 

[Zontar]

Good bye ultimate universe, they didn?t know how to handle you. I started reading comics with the ultimate line when I was a teenager and I had my mind blown away. The ultimate universe was never about dark an edgy. It was about real people having to deal with the insanity of superpowers.
And unlike the classic marvel universe what the heroes did in ultimate MATTERED. It wasn't like the old marvel rollercoaster: Let?s go have crazy adventures that absolutely DONT MATTER whatsoever because everything will go back to how it used to be again...and again and again and again and again....No consequences or meaningful changes of any kind.
When someone died in ultimate universe he stayed dead, when something important happened they didn?t changed it and characters evolved because of their decisions instead of constantly reverting back to their previous situation. Then ultimatum came and they turned it into a gritty parody. How could they got it so wrong? How could they confuse so badly what made ultimate good?
From there on it just got worse and worse and I abandoned it. Marvel it?s doing many things good right now, but how it destroyed the chance of having a truly human and realistic universe with superpowers? I will NEVER forgive them for that, ever.

I agree completely. Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate Fantastic Four are pretty much what got me into comics in the first place. Even with the problems like Ultimatum and some period after that, before that it was a great setting that was interesting, and that had heart. Hell, even later parts where pretty good like Cataclysm and some of the stories after it.

They want to bring Ultimates to an end? Fine by me.

They want to bring Miles and whoever else the think worked into the 616 universe? Fine by me.

Doing both by brining the setting to destruction instead of its well deserved and fought for happy or neutral (or bad but at least tolerable) ending? That, I can't say I'm happy about in any way, and I can guarantee there's going to be no way for them to handle it well (even disregarding the current bout of bad writers Marvel seems to have assembled) and there's definitly going to be a lot of "better then cannon" fanfiction which spawns from this.

 

[Redd the Sock]

In hindsight, the ultimate universe was never very good. The early stuff was entertaining revisions of classic tales, but the hype was all about potential of what would happen. It had good ideas, and Gwen Stacy's rant about how fear of mutants was just a fear of having to work hard to compete with them still impacts my life, but by its third year, it's existence as just a fanfic revisionist medium was creeping through, and by the time ultimatum came along, it was clear re-imagining characters and stories was all they had. Not that it was all bad (I wouldn't have kept up otherwise), from [non over hyped] additions of diversity with Nick Fury being Black, Wasp being Asian, and Colossus being gay, to the fun twists on characters like Dazzler being a shock rocker cursing like she's trying to break the censor beep, and the literal transgendered Spider Woman, or even evil Reed Richards.

Still, far too much was boring and only noteworthy to play "ultimate version of whoever" while even more was just bad (Ultimatum and much of what surrounded it). Frankly, the only story I've found really compelling to read was the Death of Spider-Man, which is a testament to the quality of the work since it's spoiled in the title. Miles has been given every chance I can give, and I still don't know what people see in him that isn't skin related. His "in the shadow of Peter Parker" thing went on far too long, and even when he gets a few things right, it doesn't come off any more unique than any other hero having the "I have to save the city" speech with a loved one, or getting the drop on an unsuspecting bad guy. Put in perspective, if Peter's girlfriend had been a hydra agent and betrayed him as happened to Miles, I would have felt something. With Miles, it was just, eh, whatever. Yet, that' been better than the other books they've tried in the last year, which make me miss Ultimatum.

I was there when it started and have missed only limited 1/2 issues. I'll be there when it ends. But what was once a potential bummer, has gone to a wish to put it and us out of our misery.

 

[Scarim Coral]

So I guess the Ultimate and 616 did finally have a corssover but not the way I expected (how is it the only crossover before this was Spider-men? It was a lost oppertunity for have them to cross over until now).

Even if they do saved Miles, how will their incoperate him into the reboot? He will be Spider-man number 2 or Pete partner?

 

[Therumancer]

So I guess the Ultimate and 616 did finally have a corssover but not the way I expected (how is it the only crossover before this was Spider-men? It was a lost oppertunity for have them to cross over until now).

Even if they do saved Miles, how will their incoperate him into the reboot? He will be Spider-man number 2 or Pete partner?

Miles is pretty much hated by the majority of comic fans as I've pointed out a number of times. One old joke goes that he has the best selling comic book nobody actually reads due to the collector market. Of course on these forums someone demonstrated his sales aren't even that high. Indeed how reviled the character is (I mean Gazillion which is as mercenary as you can get doesn't even think a Miles Enhanced costume will sell to put even that much work) was probably responsible for Marvel's April Fool's joke where they claimed he would be the new "Default" Spider-Man come the end of Secret Wars, and then recanted it as the joke it was after all the angry people bit, which pretty much means Miles not being Spider-Man is a guarantee.

HOWEVER for his handful of politically correct fans out there have been alleged leaks that he will be the new "Scarlet Spider" since apparently "Secret Wars" is going to clean up a lot of the garbage and that specifically includes some of the less than popular Spider-Man ideas (or those without enduring popularity). Basically a lot of the mess caused by "One More Day", "Clone Saga", and "Superior Spider-Man" will be undone, and that means a lot of the remnants of these storylines will be removed. As "Scarlet Spider" has been able to hold a few solo books and Miles (or "Milo" as he's called in some circles) is critically well received for political reasons having to do with diversity, he'll be given a chance to hold down that title. Of course this is all rumors and speculation and like most fan discussions and theories nobody has been able to tie it to any direct statements by Marvel, it simply seems to be one of the more likely rumors as the logic follows.

When it comes to "The Ultimate Universe" I personally suspect it will go a lot like what happened with "Wildstorm" and some of the more popular characters will survive in some form. Of course the big question is going to be whether the creative team after the fact takes good care of them, I mean look what they did with "Stormwatch" (formerly "The Authority") in DC.

There have also been rumors that they are going to redefine Captain America into more of a hybrid between the two universes. Along with this they want to slightly change his appearance and then use some kind of events in the movie universe to cast a new actor in the role. The reason why they want to do this is because apparently things like "Gamer Gate" which has encompassed a lot of geek culture has actually gotten some of the voices in comics who are not extreme liberals more of an internal platform as the divide has become more important. Apparently, and again nobody has tied this directly to Marvel that I have seen, is that they want a Captain America who is more representative of America in general as opposed to just one side of America. Basically it hasn't gone unnoticed that Cap seems to be spending more time fighting against America than he has representing the country, having become more representative of counter-culture than of the culture itself, which clashes with his intent especially at a time when the counter culture has a lot of it's own heroes nowadays. This isn't to say he's about to become Rush Limbaugh with a shield, but he's probably going to occupy a role more similar to Winter Soldier acting as "The Man On The Wall" or classic "Nick Fury" especially seeing as Cap is supposed to be the guy everyone rallies behind anyway so he'll be doing the jobs Nick was doing since it was a bit redundant on some levels. So basically Cap will be similar to "Classic" Nick Fury, and Winter Soldier will apparently continue acting as "Original Sin Nick Fury".

That said I wouldn't worry too much, I mean remember in comics nothing is permanent. I mean heck it seems like huge portions of the characters "permanently erased" during "Crisis On Infinite Earths" reappeared, revealed to simply being in an anti-matter universe or something like that so it wasn't like he actually killed anyone it seemed. Right now they can say they just erased all these alternate universes only to put them into other alternate universes people lost track of, and as a result nothing really changes as writers years later decide they want to bring back old characters or versions of them. I have minimal concerns about this "epic, will change everything" event doing much in the long term. The most we're likely to see is some personality changes among characters, a few new characters running around in the main continuity, and a lot of unpopular characters being removed, along with perhaps a few popular ones specifically to get fans rallied so they can be brought back to massive sales with a new "issue #1" and a "back by popular demand" tag. I've been watching the comics biz for a long time, and while the big wigs claim this will be different, that's what they always do.

Right now "The Ultimate Universe" is pretty much what "Wildstorm" was to DC, albeit it used different versions of existing characters as opposed to entirely different IPs. I'm one of the few people who really liked "Wildstorm" so I can sort of "get" how it is for people watching the "Ultimate" line die and be folded into a new continuity.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I do love the a lot of people's attitudes towards this is

"What about the great stuff in the Ultimate Universe like Miles and........um" and some people don't even like Miles.

also is anyone else irritated that most writers solution to end of a character or world is to nuke it I mean fuck to happy endings when we are done with them, just blow up their planet.

edit:

/

So I don't exist then, I don't mind people not liking him but saying the people who do are sjw who are not real comic fans that you have been saying multiple times is really getting on my nerves, hell race has nothing to do with his character the closest thing we get to race is that his dad hates mutants

maybe some people like stuff you don't like because they have different taste.

 

[circularlogic88]

The thing that got me to stop reading the Ultimate line was how nearly everything tied back into recreating the super soldier formula. Mutants? Super soldier experiment. Hulk? Super soldier experiment. Spider-man? Somehow genetically enhanced spiders randomly biting people = Norman Osborne's super soldier experiment. Richard Parker's Venom project? Super soldier project.

Ultimate Galactus was a disappointment. They hyped the shit out of that with 3 mini-specials. It wasn't the worst, but it definitely made me re-evaluate my pull list.

Ultimatum was the cherry on the sundae that made me drop it all. In hindsight, I respect what they were trying to do: shake up the status quo by radically altering team rosters with a massive number of deaths, but the execution was so badly done that to this day, I see ultimatum as the end of the ultimate universe and everything that came out after that as bad fanfiction.

But hey, at least Ultimate FF gave us Marvel Zombies. And Ultimates gave us Samuel L Jackson.

 

[Travis Fischer]

The thing that got me to stop reading the Ultimate line was how nearly everything tied back into recreating the super soldier formula. Mutants? Super soldier experiment. Hulk? Super soldier experiment. Spider-man? Somehow genetically enhanced spiders randomly biting people = Norman Osborne's super soldier experiment. Richard Parker's Venom project? Super soldier project.

Honestly, I kinda liked that aspect of it. It's a bit more believable than having a 70% chance that any random accident will give you super powers.


Two things really killed the Ultimate Universe for me.

The first was Mark Millar. When the Ultimate Universe launched, it was a world without heroes. Along with being free from continuity, it was free to explore a world where super-powered people were new. A New York City where aliens don't invade every other Thursday and society at large is completely unprepared for the idea of people flying around overhead getting into fights that level city blocks.

Then what happens in the first page of the first issue of Ultimate X-Men? A giant goddamn robot steps on a kid in the middle of the street. All of a sudden the Ultimate Universe changes from a world where everything is new and exciting to just another bad future for the X-Men.
Really, the animated X-Men: Evolution was a far better representation of what Ultimate X-Men should have been.

Mark "I can't write a decent story, so here's something shocking" Millar pretty much ruined the X-Men and Ultimates right off the bat, leaving me with just Ultimate Spider-Man.
Unfortunately, after the third or fourth consecutive "OH NO! WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE! story from Bendis, I got bored with Ultimate Spider-Man and dropped the line completely.

 

[circularlogic88]

The thing that got me to stop reading the Ultimate line was how nearly everything tied back into recreating the super soldier formula. Mutants? Super soldier experiment. Hulk? Super soldier experiment. Spider-man? Somehow genetically enhanced spiders randomly biting people = Norman Osborne's super soldier experiment. Richard Parker's Venom project? Super soldier project.

Honestly, I kinda liked that aspect of it. It's a bit more believable than having a 70% chance that any random accident will give you super powers.


Two things really killed the Ultimate Universe for me.

The first was Mark Millar. When the Ultimate Universe launched, it was a world without heroes. Along with being free from continuity, it was free to explore a world where super-powered people were new. A New York City where aliens don't invade every other Thursday and society at large is completely unprepared for the idea of people flying around overhead getting into fights that level city blocks.

Then what happens in the first page of the first issue of Ultimate X-Men? A giant goddamn robot steps on a kid in the middle of the street. All of a sudden the Ultimate Universe changes from a world where everything is new and exciting to just another bad future for the X-Men.
Really, the animated X-Men: Evolution was a far better representation of what Ultimate X-Men should have been.

Mark "I can't write a decent story, so here's something shocking" Millar pretty much ruined the X-Men and Ultimates right off the bat, leaving me with just Ultimate Spider-Man.
Unfortunately, after the third or fourth consecutive "OH NO! WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE! story from Bendis, I got bored with Ultimate Spider-Man and dropped the line completely.

I feel as though they really needed to reign in Millar and Bendis, just for the sake of maintaining a cohesive and overall lighter tone. It's fine to explore new ideas, and the initial premise of building a more modern universe with more realistic takes on heroes was alright at the beginning, but the Ultimate universe suffered from a lot of unecessary grimdarkening much akin to how I feel the New 52 has done. Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum just left too sour a taste in my mouth to care about "the good bits" that came in their wakes.

I feel as though Marvel gives Bendis especially far too much creative liberty.

I don't like X-men occupying the same universe as other Marvel heroes. Their very creation was a lazy measure by Stan Lee because
A) he was tired of coming up with elaborate origin stories and
B) DC had Doom Squad and Marvel needed something similar to rival it.

What's the difference between the Human Torch's super powers and a mutant's powers? Why don't more heroes get persecuted for having powers? What sense does it make?

I like the subtext of mutants for being analogies of outcasts and oppressed minorities and whatnot. Clairmont's run is still one of my favorite things to go back and read when I'm in an X-men mood but man, Ultimate X-men just reads as one of the most cynical, jaded, world-weary pieces of tripe out of any incarnation or permutation of the X-men. Honestly, the only times I enjoyed reading Ultimate X-men is when they crossed-over with Ultimate Spider-Man and Kitty Pride was dating Peter for a while. I'm afraid that Sentinel squashing that kid is what set the Ultimate universe on the path to grimdark and set a precedent where "modern interpretation" meant "needlessly shocking," a motif that carried on into Ultimatum. And holy hell, I could go on a rant about all the things wrong with Ultimatum from Wasp's death, to off-panel deaths, to a very poor/lazy understanding of how magnetism, weather and tectonic plates work... it was too much for me.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

And holy hell, I could go on a rant about all the things wrong with Ultimatum from Wasp's death.

you mean this page of pure horror

Spoiler

I'm still amazed that no one from writer to artist to editor thought this was a bad idea and stop themselves from doing it. even plot-wise makes no sense. Why was the first thing on the blobs mind after a flood was to eat a dead person he found on the street.

 

[Redd the Sock]

And holy hell, I could go on a rant about all the things wrong with Ultimatum from Wasp's death.

you mean this page of pure horror

Spoiler

I'm still amazed that no one from writer to artist to editor thought this was a bad idea and stop themselves from doing it. even plot-wise makes no sense. Why was the first thing on the blobs mind after a flood was to eat a dead person he found on the street.

Probably thought no one would care because Blob by that point had done nothing of interest, and the only things the Wasp was remembered for was getting nearly killed by Hank Pym and flashing the Hulk.

I'm actually in the minority on this as one thing I liked about the Ultimate Universe was the distinct lack of "main character armor".

 

[Dead Metal]

The whole "death is final in the Ultimate Universe" is utter BS anyway. I mean how many times has Norman Osborne died? And Ultimate Peter also came back from the dead. Oh and Gwen Stacy too, oh and Venom.

As for Miles's popularity, sales were at an average of 18,000 copies a month, his final issue sold like 32,000 issues, and that number is due to speculators buying it up because "it's the final issue of the series and those are almost always worth as much as the first issue". Miles sells exactly enough issues to get his comic cancelled, and be stuck in a team book as the "kill once we need to show that our book has consequences" member. And we've already seen that he's joining an Avengers team made up of heroes who's average sales numbers laugh at his speculator induced final issue numbers.

I gave Miles a chance, I bought and read the first 5 tpb in one go, and I've never felt more ripped off with a comic, he isn't his own character, he seems like Peter Parker light, it's as if Bendis decided that in order for him to be black, he needs to trade in Peter's strength, intelligence, guts and resilience. Seriously, he had so much potential, and I really liked him in the Spider-Men crossover, but damn does he suck in his own series.

 

[Hyperstorm]

Actually the Ultimate universe died when they allowed Jeph Loeb to write Ultimates 3.

Morales is a fun character but there was nothing preventing his creation in the regular universe.

 

[PapaGreg096]

Also who thought it was a good idea to have Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch as a couple, "Hey yall you know what would be a great addition to the Ultimates, you know the book where we are trying to get readers who don't read comics because of retcons and continuity, incest I bet we will get the light novel crowd to read our books ( yeah I know this was waaayyy before light novels were really popular in the west I just want to make this joke)"

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Also who thought it was a good idea to have Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch as a couple, "Hey yall you know what would be a great addition to the Ultimates, you know the book where we are trying to get readers who don't read comics because of retcons and continuity, incest I bet we will get the light novel crowd to read our books ( yeah I know this was waaayyy before light novels were really popular in the west I just want to make this joke)"

later ultimates story had the same problem a lot of other comics do. They think dark and edgy means mature so they think throwing in incest would make it more mature. I guess being seen as children's entertainment for so long they went the opposite direction to completely tasteless