The Next Hearthstone Patch is Changing Up Some Classic Cards

[ffronw]

The Next Hearthstone Patch is Changing Up Some Classic Cards

//cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/1314/1314403.jpgThe Whispers of the Old Gods expansion patch will bring some significant nerfs to certain existing Hearthstone cards.

Whenever Blizzard releases a patch to any of their games, you can bet that there will be some balance changes included in it. Next week's Whispers of the Old Gods expansion [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/167215-Hearthstone-Whispers-of-the-Old-Gods-Expansion-Release-Date] is no exception, as it will feature a number of nerfs to oft-used cards in the Basic and Classic sets.

In a post on the Hearthstone Blog [http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20097355/] today, Blizzard has detailed a number of the changes you can expect to see to cards you're using now when the expansion launches next week. As always, they describe their guiding principle for such changes as,

"New card releases should have an impact on Standard and enrich Wild, to make sure that Hearthstone is always as dynamic, fresh, and fun as it can be."

Here's a list of the changes:

Druid Cards

Ancient of Lore: Reduced the number of cards drawn from 2 to 1
Force of Nature: Lowered mana cost to 5, removes Charge and makes summoned Treants permanent
Keeper of the Grove: Stats have been changed from 2 attack/4 health to 2/2

Silence & Removal

Ironbeak Owl: Increased mana cost from 2 to 3
Big Game Hunter: Increased mana cost from 3 to 5
Hunter's Mark: Increased mana cost from 0 to 1
Blade Flurry: Increased mana cost from 2 to 4, will now only affect minions

Powerful Neutral Minions

Knife Juggler: Reduced attack from 3 to 2
Leper Gnome: Reduced attack from 2 to 1
Arcane Golem: Removed Charge, will now cost 3 mana with 4 attack/4 health
Molten Giant: Increased mana cost to 25
Master of Disguise: Will now only grant Stealth until next turn



Permalink

 

[laggyteabag]

I feel that the change to Keeper of the Grove is a little too harsh. A 2/2 4 is pretty dire, even if it does carry silence, or a arcane shot/holy smite on top of it. Otherwise, I don't really disagree with anything else.

Also, I am pretty glad that the Druid combo is dead, even if I am a little guilty of using it in my decks, myself.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

B-But I literally just got Keeper of the Grove after winning a tavern.
I can see why most of them were nerfed, some harder than other. Especially druid. But isn't KotG a bit too harsh? Sure I hated it when the enemy used him, but 2/2 seems too much. But then again, Ironbeak Owl has been nerfed as well, and it has a silence.
Arcane Golem seems like a ridiculous overnerf. No charge, which means you give the enemy 1 mana extra, jsut enough to counter your summon before it can do anything. Also isn't 3/4 like a baseline for minions without effects? How is the one extra attack worth giving the enemy a permanent mana crystal?
I will let Blizzard decide. I'm still too new to have the feeling for balancing, but some of it just ridiculous if you ask me. Spellbreaker cost 1 extra mana over the owl, yet has +2/2 compared to it. So 1 mana for the +2/2. Dunno, doesn't seem right, especially when Priest's silence cost 0 in one case.

 

[MoltenSilver]

I'm rather shocked to not see savage roar on the list, as I felt that was the much more influential card (Even without FoN, you are still compelled to sweep the druid board every single turn). Maybe the idea is to force Druid to run their interesting-yet-terrible class removal cards?

Surprised Molten Giant is the only giant on the list (8/8 on 4 isn't op in a world without 3mana bgh??), especially with the bgh nerf. Also seems a tad severe given it's now completely unplayable without something like a Mal'Ganis effect becoming common or burst damage entirely disappearing, but maybe that's for the best.

Blade Flurry nerf: best decision on the whole list.

Arcane Golem: I'm always glad to see aggro cards whose detrimental effect means nothing at the end of the game go. That said, I am a bit confused at its statting as Ogre Brute is all-but strictly better (then again, Ogre Brute is going away so maybe this is trying to lower the power curve)

I think Knife Juggler is a tad under-nerfed given just how swingy a card it is and there's no way to, say, react to it played with Unleash The Hounds/Implosion/Muster/whatever next token-spawning card sees play.

Ironbeak Owl I'm torn on; on the one hand it's great a face deck can't silence a Tirion and win the game as easily, on the downside cheap silence also kept some of the scummier OP stuff in check (such as Tirion) and frequently created interesting decisions (silence this current threat or hold for a bigger one) so we'll see where that goes.

Keeper nerf does seem a tad brutal, but then again so is 2-damage from the hand or Silence as needed.

I'm a bit iffy on the list overall (This looks like a breeding ground for Handlock unless something in the expansion checks it) but overall I'm willing to see it as a positive change until some horrific unforeseen consequence occurs because of it. I am, however, a bit wary of the fact Aggro Shaman and Freeze Mage didn't see any nerfs in here

edit:
From the Blizzard page: "Molten Giant is an interesting card, but it?s too easy for players to reduce its mana cost to 0. We?re increasing Molten Giant?s mana cost to 25 to increase the risks players must take to get a free Giant. The changes to Force of Nature and Arcane Golem will make dropping to low health somewhat less risky as well, which helped spur this change." (bold emphasis mine)

wha-Wha-WHAT?? When I'm at under fifteen health (much less the amount it'd take for Molten Giant to be worthwhile) Force-Roar is just one of many things I'm thinking about, to make a short and in no-way comprehensive list: Fireball, Frostbolt, Leeroy, Malygos+anything, Steady Shot, Kill Command, Pyroblast, the infinite-fireball-chain of Antonidas, Druid of the Claw, Grom, Flamewaker, Auchenai+any Heal, Ragnaros, the entire massive Aggro Shaman spell list, any weapon, hell even Consecrate or Jaraxxus or Keeper (or, say, SAVAGE ROAR) can add the finishing touches. Since Alexstrasza wasn't on the nerf list Mage can still 2-turn guaranteed kill you. In other words, no I don't exactly feel at less risk at low health just because the Force part of Force-Roar is gone.

 

[Totenkreuz]

I believe the balance is sound for all but 2 of the cards, I would change them as follows.

Knife Juggler: 1/2 for 2 with the same ability, after all, he is using the same knives to attack with as those he throws.

Arcane Golem: It should be a 4/5 for 3 as for just one more mana you can get a yeti and instead of paying it yourself you're giving that extra mana to the enemy.

Master balancer signing out, Cheers! ;P

 

[Gizen]

Blade Flurry nerf: best decision on the whole list.

As much as people like to joke about this or that cancer class/deck, is making rogue unplayable in wild really the best decision on that list? That nerf renders Blade Flurry completely unplayable, which in turn means that rogue is now the only class with no aoe removal. Considering rogue is also one of the worst classes for early game plays and Wild format is still gonna be a clusterfuck of aggro, rogue is now just 'play standard or GTFO'. And even viability in standard is only a maybe at this point.

 

[MCerberus]

See, I didn't mind all these. I'm just happy Boom is dead in a fire in standard

 

[totheendofsin]

So basically all the cards they nerfed except knife juggler are dead now

 

[rcs619]

I'm rather shocked to not see savage roar on the list, as I felt that was the much more influential card (Even without FoN, you are still compelled to sweep the druid board every single turn). Maybe the idea is to force Druid to run their interesting-yet-terrible class removal cards?

I think savage roar is completely fair without FoN. This issue was never roar giving huge burst damage if they controlled the board. The issue was that along with FoN it gave 14 free damage from thin-air, plus whatever had stuck to the board. Without FoN, druids can still do late-game burst, but they have to play a lot more honestly to get there.

They also can't even use FoN as 6 damage removal anymore.

Surprised Molten Giant is the only giant on the list (8/8 on 4 isn't op in a world without 3mana bgh??), especially with the bgh nerf. Also seems a tad severe given it's now completely unplayable without something like a Mal'Ganis effect becoming common or burst damage entirely disappearing, but maybe that's for the best.

Mountain Giant already has a huge drawback. Yeah, it's an 8/8 on turn-4, if you don't play *any* cards until then. There's a reason traditional handlock isn't very good in the current meta, and why most Renolocks don't run a mountain giant at all. The game has just gotten too fast, and too tempo-oriented. You just can't afford to tap and pass until turn 4.

Even back when things were slower, the ideal was always Twilight Drake on 4 and then tap-Giant on turn 5. Playing giant directly on 4 was usually not preferred, since you're basically just flipping a coin and hoping they don't have removal.

Blade Flurry nerf: best decision on the whole list.

I think it's generally fine with this one, yeah. With Tinker's Oil going away, Rogues weren't going to be able to get the same big flurries anymore anyway.

Arcane Golem: I'm always glad to see aggro cards whose detrimental effect means nothing at the end of the game go. That said, I am a bit confused at its statting as Ogre Brute is all-but strictly better (then again, Ogre Brute is going away so maybe this is trying to lower the power curve)

Ehh, the Arcane Golem doesn't really change anything. Only reason he got used is because not everyone owns Leeroy. Leeroy will just go back to being the preferred combo-charger for that particular brand of warlock deck. If that sort of combo, hybridlock sort of archetype remains good, I know I'll finally be crafting Mr. Jenkins.

I think Knife Juggler is a tad under-nerfed given just how swingy a card it is and there's no way to, say, react to it played with Unleash The Hounds/Implosion/Muster/whatever next token-spawning card sees play.

I think they nerfed him about as much as they could while still keeping him playable. He should have at least been a 2/2 for years now. His effect is still quite good, but he doesn't get to auto-contest 3-health minions with his stats alone.

Ironbeak Owl I'm torn on; on the one hand it's great a face deck can't silence a Tirion and win the game as easily, on the downside cheap silence also kept some of the scummier OP stuff in check (such as Tirion) and frequently created interesting decisions (silence this current threat or hold for a bigger one) so we'll see where that goes.

Personally, I kind of wish they would have gotten rid of Owl completely, or made it a hunter class card. Even at 3 mana, I think is effect is still too strong. At least he'll eat into their turn a little more now.

Keeper nerf does seem a tad brutal, but then again so is 2-damage from the hand or Silence as needed.

I'd have preferred it if they made him a 2/3 instead, but I don't think this nerf is the end of the world. There's only a few battlecry minions with silence, and silence remains one of the most powerful effects in the entire game.

I'm a bit iffy on the list overall (This looks like a breeding ground for Handlock unless something in the expansion checks it) but overall I'm willing to see it as a positive change until some horrific unforeseen consequence occurs because of it. I am, however, a bit wary of the fact Aggro Shaman and Freeze Mage didn't see any nerfs in here

Aggro shaman's biggest nerf will be another shaman archetype becoming popular (which Blizzard seems to be doing). Otherwise, it's a pretty okay deck. Annoying, I'll grant you, but it's honest (it's also one of the *only* shaman decks in recent memory that has actually been legitimately good. Let shamans have one good thing )

As for freeze-mage, have you see the Eater of Secrets? If that archetype ever becomes popular again (or another secret deck), then people just popping in an Eater of Secrets and they're done.

edit:
From the Blizzard page: "Molten Giant is an interesting card, but it?s too easy for players to reduce its mana cost to 0. We?re increasing Molten Giant?s mana cost to 25 to increase the risks players must take to get a free Giant. The changes to Force of Nature and Arcane Golem will make dropping to low health somewhat less risky as well, which helped spur this change." (bold emphasis mine)

wha-Wha-WHAT?? When I'm at under fifteen health (much less the amount it'd take for Molten Giant to be worthwhile) Force-Roar is just one of many things I'm thinking about, to make a short and in no-way comprehensive list: Fireball, Frostbolt, Leeroy, Malygos+anything, Steady Shot, Kill Command, Pyroblast, the infinite-fireball-chain of Antonidas, Druid of the Claw, Grom, Flamewaker, Auchenai+any Heal, Ragnaros, the entire massive Aggro Shaman spell list, any weapon, hell even Consecrate or Jaraxxus or Keeper (or, say, SAVAGE ROAR) can add the finishing touches. Since Alexstrasza wasn't on the nerf list Mage can still 2-turn guaranteed kill you. In other words, no I don't exactly feel at less risk at low health just because the Force part of Force-Roar is gone.

Yep, the molten giant nerf is pretty rough. But, people like to complain about the giants being "unfair" so I guess they had to nerf one of them. On the bright side, you only need to drop down to 9 HP to Molten + Reno. So... you don't need to go all the way down to 5.

But yeah, it's pretty rough. Personally, I don't think it should cost more than 22. Tack on a couple extra mana, make it slightly harder to pull out. This pushes it close to being unplayable. It really depends on how the meta goes, and how much burst remains in Standard format.

 

[MoltenSilver]

Blade Flurry nerf: best decision on the whole list.

As much as people like to joke about this or that cancer class/deck, is making rogue unplayable in wild really the best decision on that list? That nerf renders Blade Flurry completely unplayable, which in turn means that rogue is now the only class with no aoe removal. Considering rogue is also one of the worst classes for early game plays and Wild format is still gonna be a clusterfuck of aggro, rogue is now just 'play standard or GTFO'. And even viability in standard is only a maybe at this point.

I admit, I may have misspoke in haste; thinking about it the 4 mana part is probably too heavy handed, and it was mostly a gut-reaction after being tinkers-hit-bladeflurry'd too many times. That said I'm definitely, unrepentantly glad it doesn't hit face anymore. That said, maaaaaybe Rogue will somewhere gets a 'boost your weapon damage by [huge amount] for 1 turn' that can combo easily with blade flurry or similar(which may be what Blizzard is planning if they hit blade flurry so hard).

 

[MoltenSilver]

edit:
From the Blizzard page: "Molten Giant is an interesting card, but it?s too easy for players to reduce its mana cost to 0. We?re increasing Molten Giant?s mana cost to 25 to increase the risks players must take to get a free Giant. The changes to Force of Nature and Arcane Golem will make dropping to low health somewhat less risky as well, which helped spur this change." (bold emphasis mine)

wha-Wha-WHAT?? When I'm at under fifteen health (much less the amount it'd take for Molten Giant to be worthwhile) Force-Roar is just one of many things I'm thinking about, to make a short and in no-way comprehensive list: Fireball, Frostbolt, Leeroy, Malygos+anything, Steady Shot, Kill Command, Pyroblast, the infinite-fireball-chain of Antonidas, Druid of the Claw, Grom, Flamewaker, Auchenai+any Heal, Ragnaros, the entire massive Aggro Shaman spell list, any weapon, hell even Consecrate or Jaraxxus or Keeper (or, say, SAVAGE ROAR) can add the finishing touches. Since Alexstrasza wasn't on the nerf list Mage can still 2-turn guaranteed kill you. In other words, no I don't exactly feel at less risk at low health just because the Force part of Force-Roar is gone.

Yep, the molten giant nerf is pretty rough. But, people like to complain about the giants being "unfair" so I guess they had to nerf one of them. On the bright side, you only need to drop down to 9 HP to Molten + Reno. So... you don't need to go all the way down to 5.

But yeah, it's pretty rough. Personally, I don't think it should cost more than 22. Tack on a couple extra mana, make it slightly harder to pull out. This pushes it close to being unplayable. It really depends on how the meta goes, and how much burst remains in Standard format.

To be clear, I wasn't bemoaning the harshness of the Molten Giant nerf (on the contrary I quite like it), more than I was questioning what world the balance team is living in that they think someone can live a turn at single-digit health. Which I suppose is the problem; too few ways to get past it and Molten Giant+taunt becomes ridiculously good, too many ways to get past Molten Giant (Or hitting the board the turn you die) and it's just pointless at nearly any mana

I'm also a bit iffy on Eater-of-Secrets countering Freeze Mage; yes it is a nasty counter but it's such a niche card I can't see anyone being willing to risk it unless secret-based decks control over half the ladder. Aggro Shaman worries me mostly due to it not losing the majority of its most dangerous tools, though I will credit it at least looks like Blizzard has only given Shaman control-themed cards rather than making the aggro problem worse

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

wha-Wha-WHAT?? When I'm at under fifteen health (much less the amount it'd take for Molten Giant to be worthwhile) Force-Roar is just one of many things I'm thinking about, to make a short and in no-way comprehensive list: Fireball, Frostbolt, Leeroy, Malygos+anything, Steady Shot, Kill Command, Pyroblast, the infinite-fireball-chain of Antonidas, Druid of the Claw, Grom, Flamewaker, Auchenai+any Heal, Ragnaros, the entire massive Aggro Shaman spell list, any weapon, hell even Consecrate or Jaraxxus or Keeper (or, say, SAVAGE ROAR) can add the finishing touches. Since Alexstrasza wasn't on the nerf list Mage can still 2-turn guaranteed kill you. In other words, no I don't exactly feel at less risk at low health just because the Force part of Force-Roar is gone.

One answer:

*Que music here*We're gonna be rich!

 

[The Madman]

I don't like it.

Blizzard continues their trend of nerfing cards into uselessness rather than, well, anything else. No one is going to use Ancient of Lore anymore because now it's just a far worse Azure Drake, same with cards like Arcane Golem or Blade Flurry. They'll almost certainly never see play again.

And what about buffs? Warsong Commander is a pointless card that no one will ever use for any reason anymore since its nerf. Is the goal just to keep it around as a lesson for others? Something bad to pop up from abilities that summon random units?

How about seeking some of these cards useful instead of rendering them obsolete?

 

[kekkres]

I don't like it.

Blizzard continues their trend of nerfing cards into uselessness rather than, well, anything else. No one is going to use Ancient of Lore anymore because now it's just a far worse Azure Drake, same with cards like Arcane Golem or Blade Flurry. They'll almost certainly never see play again.

And what about buffs? Warsong Commander is a pointless card that no one will ever use for any reason anymore since its nerf. Is the goal just to keep it around as a lesson for others? Something bad to pop up from abilities that summon random units?

How about seeking some of these cards useful instead of rendering them obsolete?

i mean of all the nerfs here, only arcane golems is truely useless, anchent of lore, keeper of the grove and bladeflurry are underpowered now, but still viable in certan situations and everything else, IMO is where it should be

 

[The Madman]

i mean of all the nerfs here, only arcane golems is truely useless, anchent of lore, keeper of the grove and bladeflurry are underpowered now, but still viable in certan situations and everything else, IMO is where it should be

Keeper of the Grove might still be useful, but compared to the stats on a Spellbreaker for the same cost and the relative rarity of that 2 damage being worth 4 mana when druids also have stuff like wrath... yeah, it's not going to see much use if any. Meanwhile why would you ever use Ancient of Lore now? It's terrible card draw, terrible heals, and has terrible stats for its cost. It no longer has any redeeming value that makes it a worthwhile pick over other specialized cards.

Same with Bladeflurry. It will never be used since it's such a high cost board clear with such an obvious downside and requirements (Need to have a weapon with decent damage, and you'll lose that weapon after casting) that it's a wasted card. It can go sit in the corner next to the 'amazing' Bite/Savagery druid combo I guess.

Arcane Golem is now truly and utterly useless and will never be used again except as a joke or when drawn using other abilities.

Finally I don't mind the nerf to Force of Nature as I can see why the charge was problematic, same with Owl and BGH, but the rest I think are iffy at best. Nope, don't like it at all.

 

[Nurb]

The hazards of digital decks.

 

[rcs619]

No one is going to use Ancient of Lore anymore because now it's just a far worse Azure Drake,

I think it still has some niche roles. My impression is that Blizzard is trying to make people use it for healing primarily. Being able to draw two cards with it made healing an afterthought. Now the card-draw is less, so the healing becomes more valuable. I don't mind them trying to change it from an auto-include to a flexible utility card. I do think it should have probably had its cost dropped to 6 though.

same with cards like Arcane Golem or Blade Flurry. They'll almost certainly never see play again.

Arcane Golem was nerfed into uselessness, yeah. This is basically Blizzard saying that if you want to use a scary combo-charger, it better damned well be a legendary (Grom or Leeroy). No reason not to craft Leeroy now if that sort of Warlock deck remains relevant.

Blade Flurry is actually still quite good though. Its still an extremely powerful board-clear that doesn't also damage your own minions. Unless *everyone* starts running Harrison Jones and/or Ooze, I'd argue that it is at least comparable to shadowflame, maybe even slightly better since you can hold onto your weapon and don't have to sacrifice a minion.

With Tinker's Oil going away, it's not like you were going to get huge blade-flurries anymore anyway. Now it's just solid board-clear instead of massive face-damage and huge board-clear. It makes it less good, certainly, but it's far from useless. Especially if slower, more control-oriented rogues come about.

How about seeking some of these cards useful instead of rendering them obsolete?

Buff's create unforeseen consequences, so they almost never do them. Much easier to let Warsong stew until a later expansion when they can build an archetype around it. Or think of something new to do with it, since its old effect doesn't sit well with them anymore.

I hope they do though. I always really liked Warsong's art and voicework.

 

[loa]

Oh wow, bye bye ironbeak owl.
3 mana for a 2/1 body is just lolno, even if it comes with silence.
Just 1 more mana and you have spellbreakers which remain unchanged and have actually useful stats.

Keepers got it even worse.
Nobody will bring a 4 mana 2/2 body, regardless of the silence or utility.
That card is just straight up dead.

And what's with the master of disguise nerf?
Was stealth ever that much of a problem? Really now?

 

[lancar]

And what's with the master of disguise nerf?
Was stealth ever that much of a problem? Really now?

Yeah, my first reaction when i read that was: "Somebody actually played that!?"

 

[C117]

Blade Flurry is actually still quite good though. Its still an extremely powerful board-clear that doesn't also damage your own minions. Unless *everyone* starts running Harrison Jones and/or Ooze, I'd argue that it is at least comparable to shadowflame, maybe even slightly better since you can hold onto your weapon and don't have to sacrifice a minion.

With Tinker's Oil going away, it's not like you were going to get huge blade-flurries anymore anyway. Now it's just solid board-clear instead of massive face-damage and huge board-clear. It makes it less good, certainly, but it's far from useless. Especially if slower, more control-oriented rogues come about.

Actually, I think it is going to be pretty much useless with that nerf. Sure, Blade Flurry was a decent board clear, but that's not what it was used for. It was mainly used for the burst. And unlike, say, Freeze-Mage, that burst actually was rather risky and took a lot of setup. You had to weigh your options; should I use my Deadly Poison now to get rid of a minion, or should I save it for the final burst? If I buff my weapon now I might save the mana next turn, but they might also be able to remove it. You had to invest a lot in order to get your big burst with that card, and that was the reason that Oil-Rogue was a fun deck to play; it was viable, but it took a lot of thought.

And besides, let's compare the new Blade Flurry to everybody's happiest little wave of fire; Flamestrike. Flamestrike is a 7 mana 4 damage to every minion spell. What do you have to invest in order to get Blade Flurry up to roughly the same level?
First you need Blade Flurry itself. 4 mana, 0 damage, 1 card.
Then you need a weapon. Let's take the one from our hero power just because that one you can always have. 2 mana, 1 damage, no card.
Now we need to buff our weapon. Deadly Poison is a good, cost-effective buff, so let's add one of those. 1 mana, 2 damage, 1 card.

Now we've spent 7 mana, 2 cards, and a hero power, and yet we've only reached 3 damage to all enemy minions. If we want more than that, we need to invest even more mana and even more cards. So no, I wouldn't say it is "still an extremely powerful board-clear". In fact I would say it's pretty much useless. Up that mana OR remove the facedamage, Blizzard. Not both. Then it might actually be "balanced".