145: It's A Yaoi Thing

[Gia Manry]

It's A Yaoi Thing

"Mika Sadahiro's Under Grand Hotel features a Japanese man who goes to prison for murder. He rooms with an African-American man named Sword who rapes him regularly. The two form an unusually deep bond with each other as they deal with the other prisoners and corrupt prison guards. It's an unusually grim tale, but rape and coercion are common in most types of yaoi."

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[beoweasel]

Rather fascinating article. I approve! Its weird how in our society, its perfectly normal for guys to oggle images of women having sex (though we're not all that interested in the relationship aspect.), but its utterly alien for women to enjoy male homosexual pairings...and even looked down upon, for it.

 

[sammyfreak]

Rather fascinating article. I approve! Its weird how in our society, its perfectly normal for guys to oggle images of women having sex (though we're not all that interested in the relationship aspect.), but its utterly alien for women to enjoy male homosexual pairings...and even looked down upon, for it.

I once was suprised to find that my female cousin found gay guys going at it hot, in response she said "well dont you like it when girls do it?". That shut me up.

 

[beoweasel]

I once was surprised to find that my female cousin found gay guys going at it hot, in response she said "well dont you like it when girls do it?". That shut me up.

Yeah, my mother is the same way. While she's primarily a romance writer that does heterosexual pairings, she's written several stories of gay-men.

 

[DennoCoil]

There's an easy formula to this.

Men like women : Men love holes : Men want more women and holes (AKA Lesbian porn)

Women like Men : Women love twigs : Women want more men and twigs (AKA Gay porn)

It's not crazy if you think about it, some women love men and there twig and berries so much, they would love to see a few men "cross swords". It's the same as loving Lesbian porn.

 

[Northern]

I know a girl who like Yaoi ... but she doesn't like all Yaoi, just one particular one ... maybe there are even sub-genres within this genre.

But this article is as close as I will probably get to knowing anything about Yaoi.

Although, it is good to hear about the differences in life that you would never really know.

 

[whyhalothar]

I notice the girls who like yaoi is because the guys that are in it usually look "pretty" (though the romance is really... beyond all cheesyness) or they like asians. For some reason, hardcore buttsmex isn't as popular as many might think. No wonder Yuri is so ignored (WANT MORE CANDY*BOY)... ):

 

[General Ma Chao]

I'm not surprised really. Men like to look at attractive women wearing and doing things they find hot. It's only logical women would like the same thing. Overall, good article.

 

[StolenName]

I liked the style and tone of this article, it's an interesting topic too. In my Japanese class (mainly high-school students), many of the girls really enjoyed reading the less explicit Yaoi - though one girl really enjoyed drawing hardcore gay porn in her spare time, or during class. I don't find the phenomena at all surprising, however, I was particularly interested in the point made regarding women harbouring rape fantasies. Particularly the use of statistics. If you don't mind, where did you find that statistic and does it represent the results of a Japanese survey, a US survey, a global survey, etc.

Not that, again, I find it hard to believe but it struck me rather a strong point in the article that I'd like some clarification on.

 

[Pseudonym2]

"50 percent of women harbor rape fantasies"

bullshit. I know a lot of women that have been raped. They didn't like it.

 

[Sentient Muffin]

This is interesting and all, but the real question is: why would women start to find fascination in this only in Yoai? Their aren't a lot of girls out there that like to see REAL men do it. Or maybe...I should have a survey at my college...

 

[SykoSilver]

I'm not surprised really. Men like to look at attractive women wearing and doing things they find hot. It's only logical women would like the same thing. Overall, good article.

Generalizing much?

As a homosexual male I'm always severely disappointed to pick up a piece of gay fiction only to discover that it's geared towards women. Not all men like lesbians-- and gay men such as myself don't like the feminine bishounen. Where are the choices for those of us who want a more realistic spin on gay fiction, with masculine characters?

And here's an even more interesting question: Is it more acceptable for a girl to read gay fiction than for a gay male to read it? Probably.

Also important to consider is how the yaoi movement has skewed womens' views of gay men. Girls flock to me to be their best friend expecting me to live up to some feminine stereotype they've gained and be some wonder solution to all their girlish needs. I've actually had girls refer to me as "girlfriend". And these fangirls seemingly always complain that the males in my artwork are masculine. Males shouldn't be masculine?

I find it all pretty offensive. It's even more annoying when other homosexuals perpetuate the stereotypes intentionally.

 

[Girlysprite]

"50 percent of women harbor rape fantasies"

bullshit. I know a lot of women that have been raped. They didn't like it.

It doesn't say that raped women like it. It's more subtle then that. Women don't like rape, they wouldn't ever want to be victim of that. But many women have fantasies in where they are more submissive, so to say. I can attest to that it isn't bullshit.

It's an interesting read by the way. Also funny- I started a topic a week ago about fanfiction and also Yaoi and slashfics were mentioned.

As for the gay people- yes, it's annoying when people see you as a stereotype. Hell, I know a lot of gay men get to hear the question 'so who's the 'female'' at least once in their lives. I guess if gay people want their own stories, they have to write it for their own target group. After all, it's harder for a hetero sexual to write a fantasy that he doesn't know, about relationships that he doesn't fancy or know.

 

[ANeM]

"50 percent of women harbor rape fantasies"

bullshit. I know a lot of women that have been raped. They didn't like it.

The thing about fantasies is the more far removed from them you are, the more likely you are to have them. Its why some guys, for example, have sexual fantasies about Twi'leks and other humanoid aliens, because they are never going to meet a chick with blue skin.

Likewise, its very rare for people harbor fantasies about things they've experienced. Rape victims are obviously the last people who would harbor fantasies about that sort of thing. Its painful and scarring. But then again, a lot of people also have fantasies about being famous, but you can't open a newspaper these days without hearing about someone having their privacy trampled or going into rehab or something of that sort.

We all realize certain things are simply horrible. However, it doesn't stop us from wanting things we do not have, and to some extent only makes it more enticing.

And while I agree that even then that percentage is quite high, I don't find it hard to believe that say, a stay-at-home mother in the suburbs who hasn't seen any action lately might have certain fantasies because she is so far removed from a situation where that would ever happen.
I mean, for someone who feels to some extent 'removed' from it, the word rape almost becomes a synonym of rough sex. Much like with "Gay" or "Fag" the mindset is "these words don't affect me, I'll use them how I please." Its just how people are.

So the statistic doesn't really say much at all. Just that girls like it rough once in a while. Nothing new really

 

[Voodoo Child]

Excellent article, and I wholeheartedly agree with SykoSilver. I'm fine with female fans of yaoi, I think it's awesome that people are so broad-minded. But I really think that it's at least a teeny bit obvious that gay men are going to read them as well, so it's pretty stupid to gear it only towards the female fans.

Then again, a lot of the stuff that is geared to women doesn't bother me, because I am an absolute sucker for Hurt/Comfort, Fluff and Romance fics with lots of warm, fuzzy, lovey-dovey dialogue. Although, a bit of PWP is quite nice, too.

For those of you that do like Yaoi, what mangas do you read/recommend? I've read a couple online, although I can't remember the names, and I'm more of a Slash fan.

 

[Xaositect]

Generalizing much?

As a homosexual male I'm always severely disappointed to pick up a piece of gay fiction only to discover that it's geared towards women. Not all men like lesbians-- and gay men such as myself don't like the feminine bishounen. Where are the choices for those of us who want a more realistic spin on gay fiction, with masculine characters?

Hey SykoSilver, Im a heterosexual guy, so I guess that changes things a little, but I have to still agree with a large portion of what you have said. I dont hanker after two women being together. It really doesnt do much for me, so I want to thank you for pointing out that not all guys lust after lesbians 24/7 (Im sure its also insulting for lesbians who have received hatred for who they are to hear that said too).

Another point I liked is about the "hyper-feminine" appearance of some of these characters. Okay, Im no expert on this stuff, but I have to say sometimes I find the extremely feminine appearance of some of those Japanese characters to be annoying and perhaps even a little offensive. Mainly just because it doesnt fit with my experience as a guy, and all the other guys I know. I understand its a cultural thing, but this entire "only feminine = beautiful" pisses me off. I have never seen a guy look so much like a women unless they were specifically trying to do so.

This comparison is not quite the same thing I know, but if women get pissed off about unrealistic physical depictions of women (freakishly large breasts, chainmail bikinis, etc.), surely its okay for me to get pissed off about these unrealistically feminine looking guys. Guys who have (from what I have seen, so I know its not the definitive) no facial or body hair, soft facial features, and skinny bodies devoid of any bulk or muscle. I think its great some women have found an outlet that gives them pleasure, but Id like to think Im doing a similar thing to when other women object to an unrealistic ideal of female beauty. (Though to be fair, I understand that unrealistic depictions of women and what they should be like is far, far more widespread than this Yaoi business).

 

[Xaositect]

And since I forgot, good article. Interesting, and it got to me to rant about something thats been annoying me for some time.

 

[ayoama]

Excellent article, and I wholeheartedly agree with SykoSilver. I'm fine with female fans of yaoi, I think it's awesome that people are so broad-minded. But I really think that it's at least a teeny bit obvious that gay men are going to read them as well, so it's pretty stupid to gear it only towards the female fans.

Then again, a lot of the stuff that is geared to women doesn't bother me, because I am an absolute sucker for Hurt/Comfort, Fluff and Romance fics with lots of warm, fuzzy, lovey-dovey dialogue. Although, a bit of PWP is quite nice, too.

For those of you that do like Yaoi, what mangas do you read/recommend? I've read a couple online, although I can't remember the names, and I'm more of a Slash fan.

Unfortunately, it seems that Yaoi manga in Japan is geared specifically toward girls; I guess people don't consider boys as a potential audience because, well, gay males have gay porn
I agree with you, though: I'm a girl, and I'd like to see something a bit more realistic once in a while too. I'm deeply dissatisfied with the current yaoi scene, too many standard seme-uke PWPs.
Right now, the only yaoi series I'm reading is Kizuna. It doesn't feature particularly good drawing or a realistic plot (and presents the deprecable "rape is acceptable with men!" concept), but its lighthearted tone is good when you don't feel like using your brain too much.

 

[JONJONAUG]

Not a big fan of yaoi, but good work on the article!