Stolen Pixels #41: Pick a Perk

[Shamus Young]

Stolen Pixels #41: Pick a Perk

Life would be so much better if it came with perks - but only if they were better than the lame perks of Fallout 3.

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[Jackpot]

Why do developers continually assume that console gamers are drooling spastic killbots with atrophied brains and a contempt for literacy? Aren't these the people that play Final Fantasy, a game that is only slightly less complex than piloting the space shuttle?

Moot point. Story line (especially for those like FF n) has nothing to do with the complexity of gameplay or mathematical ability. The ability to understand the social intricacies of JRPGs are not the same as the ability to comprehend large amounts of mathematical data.

However, I do agree with your sentiment.

 

[Blind Punk Riot]

POKEMON!


To be fair, there are a lot of us out there which are drooling killbots with atrophied brains and a contempt for literacy!

And I am happy.
Grab a beer and play mario karts with us!

 

[pseudoidiot]

Don't forget the Ron Perlman one. I've begun imagining I have this perk active in my day-to-day routine, and it has done wonders for my quality of life.

Is that anything like Freemanic Paracusia [http://xkcd.com/462/]?

 

[Dectilon]

Shamus, I salute you! I've been wondering the same thing for a long time.

 

[Quistnix]

I'd pick the Ron Perlman perk right away, but it would be even more awesome if he teamed up with Jeremy Irons [http://victorhh.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/jeremy_irons.jpg]

 

[Robyrt]

I, for one, am happy to be sold short. The less time I spend on tedious min-maxing, or slowly realizing (like in Fallout 1) how awful my starting stats were, the more time I have to play the fun bits of the game.

I would totally tune in to the Ron Perlman radio station. Galaxy News Radio's playlist is too short anyway.

 

[mistermurphy]

Why do developers continually assume that console gamers are drooling spastic killbots with atrophied brains and a contempt for literacy? Aren't these the people that play Final Fantasy, a game that is only slightly less complex than piloting the space shuttle?

Moot point. Story line (especially for those like FF n) has nothing to do with the complexity of gameplay or mathematical ability. The ability to understand the social intricacies of JRPGs are not the same as the ability to comprehend large amounts of mathematical data.

However, I do agree with your sentiment.

I believe he was referring to the mechanics of the Final Fantasy games, and not their story. I inferred this from the fact that he referenced junctioning materia, and not figuring out whether Squall was secretly an imaginary water rugby player sent back in time to save the world from a vicious cycle of death and rebirth centered around crystals.

The game mechanics can get sort of complex; I remember I had a spreadsheet trying to figure out the best way to handle all the aspects of raising and breeding chocobos in VII back in the day.

Also, fun fact: Did you know "moot point" is a saying that means, literally, the reverse of what most people think it is? Its first definition is," A subject open to debate or discussion; a disputed point". The second definition being an outgrowth of the first," Deprived of practical significance; rendered abstract or purely academic." I can only assume this was an artifact of hostile reaction to intellectualism, as if the act of discussing something took it out of the realm of the real in the eyes of the workingday man.

 

[SharedProphet]

You can't junction materia in FFVIII. : ) At least, it isn't called materia.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

I wonder who coined the term "Consoletard"

Tis a bit of a shame really. I loved the stat alterations the perks allowed, and it helped add a little individuality. Fallout was prominent in doing this (atleast of the games I played,) and I also enjoyed the system used in Arcanum.

 

[radio_babylon]

you know... it COULD be people dont WANT to play a spreadsheet. i know, thats crazy-talk, everyone knows spreadsheets are great fun. thats why excel is the best-selling pc game ever... but stick with me for a minute here... see, lots of people, they play those awesome spreadsheet games all day long (and get paid for it! amazing, isnt it?) so sometimes when they get home, maybe they want to give the spreadsheet a rest... maybe they just want to have some idle fun.

now, i know, these people are total retards. theres not even a need for an IQ test. since they dont want what you want, and since you are obviously a genius, then it follows that they are clearly retarded, or at the very least got dropped on their head as a child.

but, retard or not, at least now they have something to play. before, when theyre were only spreadsheets to play, these retards mostly ignored the mathalicious awesomeness of those games, in favor of keeping their money in their pockets. then one day, a bunch of retards made a game FOR retards, you know, a spreadsheet-lite. and holy shit, it sold a fuckton! who knew there were so many retards out there waiting to give up their cash?? i mean, everyone knows the hardcore spreadsheeters are the only gamers that matter, right?

but dont worry, hardcore! im sure just ANY day now, developers are going to wake up and realize they dont care about all those retards that outnumber the smart people 4 to 1, and they CERTAINLY dont care for all that retard money, and theyll go back to making those delicious spreadsheets for you. shout it with me, fuck those retards! fuck their money!

 

[Anton P. Nym]

If I wanted to play a spreadsheet, I'd be playing EVE Online or some fantasy sport manager game, or maybe I'd be grinding to level up an MBA and chase P/Es.

I wanted to play a post-apocalyptic role-playing game, and got to do so in Fallout 3. There was enough flexibility in there to roleplay, some interesting synergies between perks and skills and gear, and even some interesting strategy; but more important was a big stretch of wasteland to explore and a horde of baddies to kill. (And locks to pick and computers to hack, both of which do involve player skill as much as stat-bar skill.)

Thanks for the great comic; I laughed, much as I do with the Zero Punctuations. However, like in many of the ZPs, I disagree with the point.

-- Steve

 

[mistermurphy]

you know... it COULD be people dont WANT to play a spreadsheet. i know, thats crazy-talk, everyone knows spreadsheets are great fun. thats why excel is the best-selling pc game ever... but stick with me for a minute here... see, lots of people, they play those awesome spreadsheet games all day long (and get paid for it! amazing, isnt it?) so sometimes when they get home, maybe they want to give the spreadsheet a rest... maybe they just want to have some idle fun.

now, i know, these people are total retards. theres not even a need for an IQ test. since they dont want what you want, and since you are obviously a genius, then it follows that they are clearly retarded, or at the very least got dropped on their head as a child.

but, retard or not, at least now they have something to play. before, when theyre were only spreadsheets to play, these retards mostly ignored the mathalicious awesomeness of those games, in favor of keeping their money in their pockets. then one day, a bunch of retards made a game FOR retards, you know, a spreadsheet-lite. and holy shit, it sold a fuckton! who knew there were so many retards out there waiting to give up their cash?? i mean, everyone knows the hardcore spreadsheeters are the only gamers that matter, right?

but dont worry, hardcore! im sure just ANY day now, developers are going to wake up and realize they dont care about all those retards that outnumber the smart people 4 to 1, and they CERTAINLY dont care for all that retard money, and theyll go back to making those delicious spreadsheets for you. shout it with me, fuck those retards! fuck their money!

Goodness golly. To summarize for the studio audience.

"Most people don't like games with depth. My proof for this is games with depth were made in the days when market penetration for video games was not very large; so video games with depth didn't sell much. I am equating units sold with quality, as well as stating that people buy things that are only exactly what they want, and not because its merely the best option (even if that option still sucks). I also think that by trying to attribute ridiculous statements to the other side in a debate, I make myself sound better!"

Oh, and fuck retards.

 

[Dev Null]

I'm not _entirely_ convinced its a console thing; games seem to be getting dumbed-down over time. And radio_babylon, while raving somewhat, has a point; simpler games have a wider audience, and can sell more copies. The trick though, is in how you define "simpler"; leaving story aside as not what the comics about, the gameplay in Fallout 3 may take a lot less _thought_ than Fallout, but it requires a lot more hand-eye coordination. I'm not necessarily saying it takes much - haven't played it yet - but as a FPS I'm assuming it takes _some_, and the original required no more than the necessary to eventually click a button with a mouse in your own time...

As someone who habitually hops around FPSs like a deranged ferret on speed, blowing myself up with my own grenades, I expect to find Fallout 3 harder than Fallout. But the difficulty level isn't what Shamus was remarking on; he was commenting on the uselessness of the perks. Now if all you want to do is click things til they die, I don't think he'd have a problem with that; just leave the perks _out_ (all right, and don't call it Fallout. Happy Shamus?) But if you leave them in then its presumably because you're looking to create a game where the characters are customisable, and might even approach problems in different ways depending on the path they've chosen. If you're into that kind of fun then its relatively important that the character customisation _matters_, or the people who find that sort of thing fun will quickly catch on that it doesn't and they're wasting their time. Perks that don't have any relevant impact in the game is like allowing you to change your hair colour and calling it character customisation. Doesn't make it a bad game as such, but makes it a pretty lame excuse for the type of game we've learned to call an RPG.

 

[Sol_HSA]

Let me ask you something: Why is it that PC games always get watered down and simplified when they are adapted for a console audience? Why do developers continually assume that console gamers are drooling spastic killbots with atrophied brains and a contempt for literacy?

Historical perspective. PC games had tons of text due to the higher resolution; consoles only had the TV resolution, and even that was blurred, so you couldn't dump as much text on screen.

Since then people have found that reading tons of text in a game is boring, and we aren't hit with walls of text on pc games anymore either..

 

[Grampy_bone]

Well, I believe the perks were watered down to accommodate the fact that you get one every level instead of every other level, as they had originally planned. Plenty of the higher level perks are extremely useful and have major impacts on your gameplay.

Saying the skills don't matter or show no return in Fallout 3 is also false. The 1-100 scale means every point matters and you get an immediate return on each point spent. In Fallout 1/2 the 1-300 scale made it difficult to judge where to spend points and impossible to see what benefits you were getting from skills spent. The only skills worth increasing in those games over 100 were weapon skills. Who can tell me the difference between 80 Science skill and 120 science? 40 First aid and 60? 90 Outdoorsman and 110? There was no practical difference and it was very easy to waste points. Face it, Fallout's skill system was in dire need of an overhaul and blaming it on 'consolization' is just a lazy scapegoat.

But Shamus Young has never let pesky things like facts get in the way of his little rants.

 

[Think0028]

Eh, I played Fallout 2, and I really think they needed to -- and did -- simplify the skill system. There were too many skills for anyone to do anything but specialize, and I can't particularly think of any cut out that were actually needed. Outdoorsman doesn't make sense in a 3d free-roamer, Gambling was stupid to begin with, Doctor was unnecessary, and the merge of Traps and Throwing does mean that some throwing weapons are thrown out, but that's it.

And what exactly do you mean by diet leveling? I seriously do not understand.

 

[Ubikvitaarinen]

Ron Perlman's is spot on. I'd love to see that implemented.

 

[Dectilon]

Eh, I played Fallout 2, and I really think they needed to -- and did -- simplify the skill system. There were too many skills for anyone to do anything but specialize, and I can't particularly think of any cut out that were actually needed. Outdoorsman doesn't make sense in a 3d free-roamer, Gambling was stupid to begin with, Doctor was unnecessary, and the merge of Traps and Throwing does mean that some throwing weapons are thrown out, but that's it.

And what exactly do you mean by diet leveling? I seriously do not understand.

I actually agree with the things you bring up, but I still think it's been too simplified. That's not what bothers me the most though. I really, really want the "Better Dialog"-perk : (