Sex and Violence: Welcome to Adulthood
- Thread starter tendo82
- Start date
An excellent rebuttal to Ms. Chaplain's rant, and one that too few of us have been able to properly articulate, settling instead for calling her a "***** who bitches too much" (true quote).
Even some of our most thematically packed indie games still use sex and violence as hooks to draw gamers to a deepr level of discourse.
Even some of our most thematically packed indie games still use sex and violence as hooks to draw gamers to a deepr level of discourse.
She obviously doesn't appreciate the good things in life XDtendoSex and Violence: Welcome to Adulthood[/B said:
People like this might as well stop complaning about the whole sex and violence thing. After all, it's a free country and the 1st amendment protects game developers so they can put anything into a game and not get in trouble for it.
Who is she? Seeing as I never heard of her before I do not think she will get very far other than making rants.
My wife is 34 years old, an experienced engineer, and a MBA student. She loves fart jokes. A properly placed fart in a movie will have her bent over in tears.Griloch said:
I admire Endo for his honesty. I think most adult gamers feel the same way, even if they are ashamed to admit it.
Saint's Row 2 is arguably better, in my opinion. And that's not stemming from the ZP review - I had racked up 72 hours of game time on my save before Yahtzee reviewed it. loldogstile said:i like both those things, and rockstar seems to have got that down perfectly
you assume that i'm talking about GTA 4... this is not trueSlaughterRot said:Saint's Row 2 is arguably better, in my opinion. And that's not stemming from the ZP review - I had racked up 72 hours of game time on my save before Yahtzee reviewed it. loldogstile said:i like both those things, and rockstar seems to have got that down perfectly
Yes sex and violence are fun (I even showed madworld to my mother last time I went home), but that doesn't mean they're an end in themselves. The general trend in the industry is still a very narrow-minded view of chauvanism and pubescence. One need only look to Ivy (I think that's her name) from the new Soul Calibur, your companion in the new Resident Evil or any other representation of a female in a game apart from Alyx Vance, Samus or Jade.
Speaking from a female perspective, I'd say they're great draw-factors as well. More the violence than the sex but that may be down to my distaste for faux-women. Endlessly killing polygons in say, Unreal Tournament is as much a good time as it is a means for me to work out frustrations. And really, the "Male" image in games is often as stereotyped as the female, though often with more fabric involved. The intent may be different but in many ways the approach is similar. None the less games are an enjoyable medium to settle back and blow shit up. Of course there are games which don't reply on this. Puzzle games in particular spring to mind but even then there are things like Portal which are undeniably inventive yet still have that vein of destruction. Tasty destruction.. mmm.
In short it's a relaxation mechanism and I doubt that'll ever change. It's more profitable for developers this way.
In short it's a relaxation mechanism and I doubt that'll ever change. It's more profitable for developers this way.
I liked Saints Row 2, but I found the characters incredible unlikable. Johnie is a fuckwit sociopathic murder, your character is pretty much the same, and everyone else is just wasted. Fun game but the cutscenes and characters just made me want to avoid the plot.SlaughterRot said:Saint's Row 2 is arguably better, in my opinion. And that's not stemming from the ZP review - I had racked up 72 hours of game time on my save before Yahtzee reviewed it. loldogstile said:i like both those things, and rockstar seems to have got that down perfectly
That's great. I hate to flame, but I can't stand this self-involved logic. You are the sole metric for determining if someone's opinion is worthwhile or not, based entirely on whether or not you have heard of them?koboldkommando said:
Well, a pretty simple Internet search shows that she's a journalist and author, which gave her the credibility to be a GDC panelist, getting, I imagine, much farther than you will.
I enjoyed reading Tom's rebuttal, but he's missed the point entirely. It's not that video games are just about sex and violence, but that video games still mostly cater to a juvenile level of sex and violence. There's hardly any mature sophistication to video games, save for a rare handful. And that's the point I think she's trying to make and I agree with her that gaming needs to grow up.
Who said anything about abandoning sex and violence? Again, this is a great article and I agree with the importance that sex and violence holds in adult entertainment, art and culture, but that has nothing to do with the current lack of maturity in today's games.
Heather Chaplin's point still stands: gaming needs to grow up.
Who said anything about abandoning sex and violence? Again, this is a great article and I agree with the importance that sex and violence holds in adult entertainment, art and culture, but that has nothing to do with the current lack of maturity in today's games.
Heather Chaplin's point still stands: gaming needs to grow up.
Sex and violence are integral parts to entertainment since the idea of watching other people do things was first thought.
The ancient Romans enthusiastically watched real men, women and children be publicly raped, tortured, fight and be executed in horrific manners that would cause most people to violently puke in disgust. The first Christians to try to stop this so outraged the mob viewing the games, as they were called,that they were literally torn apart by the crowd.
In modern times we have mostly replaced actual human suffering with special effects and computer graphics, Ala the Hostile films and God of War games for example, but the news media has operated for many decades if not centuries with the old adage "If it bleeds it leads".
Imagine this, a scientist creates a cure to a terrible disease and saves thousands, maybe he or she gets coverage at the press conference announcing the cure from many respectable news organizations but will that be that nights leading story. Doubtful, now imagine that same scientist goes to work with a weapon and starts killing many co-workers before being taken down by the police. Obviously the police will nearly be outnumbered by the media storming in to get the latest info, talking heads will try to explain the violence, helicopters will circle for hours over the crime scene and certainly the local and most national and international news agencies will lead with it. Why?
Violence sells. So does sex, look at the tabloids.
We say videogames need to grow up but do we really mean it. Are we really happier as adults with responsibilities, compromise, jobs and bills to pay than we were when we were children, free and forgiven for doing and saying what we want when we want.
Even in supposed mature industries such as film the box office clearly shows a Iron Man or Incredible Hulk with there clear, happy and emotional baggage free ending will fare better at the box office than a No Country for Old Men or The Watchmen with their lack of a clear resolution or happy ending.
There is a place for mature thoughtful videogames as there are is a place for them in film but the demands of profits and the masses fear of doubt and introspection will leave them on the fringes as they are in all media.
Entertainment is about escapism to power, glory or joy with the rare trip to fear and disillusion that so plague us in real life. Games will mature in their own time and in their own way.
The ancient Romans enthusiastically watched real men, women and children be publicly raped, tortured, fight and be executed in horrific manners that would cause most people to violently puke in disgust. The first Christians to try to stop this so outraged the mob viewing the games, as they were called,that they were literally torn apart by the crowd.
In modern times we have mostly replaced actual human suffering with special effects and computer graphics, Ala the Hostile films and God of War games for example, but the news media has operated for many decades if not centuries with the old adage "If it bleeds it leads".
Imagine this, a scientist creates a cure to a terrible disease and saves thousands, maybe he or she gets coverage at the press conference announcing the cure from many respectable news organizations but will that be that nights leading story. Doubtful, now imagine that same scientist goes to work with a weapon and starts killing many co-workers before being taken down by the police. Obviously the police will nearly be outnumbered by the media storming in to get the latest info, talking heads will try to explain the violence, helicopters will circle for hours over the crime scene and certainly the local and most national and international news agencies will lead with it. Why?
Violence sells. So does sex, look at the tabloids.
We say videogames need to grow up but do we really mean it. Are we really happier as adults with responsibilities, compromise, jobs and bills to pay than we were when we were children, free and forgiven for doing and saying what we want when we want.
Even in supposed mature industries such as film the box office clearly shows a Iron Man or Incredible Hulk with there clear, happy and emotional baggage free ending will fare better at the box office than a No Country for Old Men or The Watchmen with their lack of a clear resolution or happy ending.
There is a place for mature thoughtful videogames as there are is a place for them in film but the demands of profits and the masses fear of doubt and introspection will leave them on the fringes as they are in all media.
Entertainment is about escapism to power, glory or joy with the rare trip to fear and disillusion that so plague us in real life. Games will mature in their own time and in their own way.
Nothing wrong with sex and violence. I love them. Yay. The problem isn't that there's mature content; it's that it's being used in an immature way. It's shallow, desperate, gimmicky, cliche, and borderline offensive to some groups of people.
It is definitely a "thematic wasteland" and I think that's what her issue is. She is concerned about games as art. Well, works of art can certainly have sex and violence, but that's not all that they contain! And, if they do contain these things, they definitely explore them in ways that are not necessarily subtle, but definitely not shallow. Video games do not have this approach. They skirt the line of AO because as a corporate product, that's all they can do.
For me, it all goes back to this corporate censorship issue, and that's one of the reasons why games are not perceived as art. The great products of the medium are from corporations, not free-willed studios. You not only have to worry about meeting the bottom line and all that risk-reduction bullshit, but you also have to worry about avoiding an AO rating from an organization whose rating system is incredibly conservative. That AO rating is also an effective ban. Do visual arts, books, and film (not movies) have to go through this shit? No. And even movies have it better off.
It is definitely a "thematic wasteland" and I think that's what her issue is. She is concerned about games as art. Well, works of art can certainly have sex and violence, but that's not all that they contain! And, if they do contain these things, they definitely explore them in ways that are not necessarily subtle, but definitely not shallow. Video games do not have this approach. They skirt the line of AO because as a corporate product, that's all they can do.
For me, it all goes back to this corporate censorship issue, and that's one of the reasons why games are not perceived as art. The great products of the medium are from corporations, not free-willed studios. You not only have to worry about meeting the bottom line and all that risk-reduction bullshit, but you also have to worry about avoiding an AO rating from an organization whose rating system is incredibly conservative. That AO rating is also an effective ban. Do visual arts, books, and film (not movies) have to go through this shit? No. And even movies have it better off.
Of course movies like Iron Man are going to top the charts (kids and adults can both enjoy those types of movies), but there is a huge wealth of mature movies being made. Directors can make something that appeals entirely to adults without the fear of it not making money. Where are the No Country For Old Men video games? There are hardly any games out there that don't make some sort of sacrifice to appeal to kids... and that's the problem. That's where games need to mature.Rigs83 said:
Some of the Escapists might be reading this and thinking, "Who shit in this guy's cornflakes?" So I'll try and put my ranting into perspective... when you were 5 years old, Sesame Street was so awesome. Now that you've matured, it's nostalgic, but hardly rewarding. That's how I feel right now with gaming in general. Almost every game I play feels like Sesame Street in some form or fashion. When people praise a game, I typically read it as someone trying tell me how amazing Elmo is.
I've seen flashes of brilliance. I know it's possible to make rewarding games that appeal more so to adults, but it's just not happening at any satisfying frequency.
Amen, brother.SykoSilver said: