AMD, Nvidia Slap-Fight Over DirectX 11

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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AMD, Nvidia Slap-Fight Over DirectX 11


AMD [http://www.nvidia.com/] are shooting spitballs at each from across the room with snippy questions and snarky answers about support for DirectX 11 in the newest line of Radeon video cards.

There's an interesting sort of relationship going on between GPU makers Nvidia and AMD, which bought TweakTown [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI]. Apparently, as the launch of a new AMD product nears, Nvidia contacts the site to find out if they have sample video cards and when they do, sends them a few tough questions they think need to be asked. So when AMD took the wraps off the Radeon HD 5800, the first video card to support DirectX 11, Nvidia was there, ready to be helpful.

This time, however, TweakTown decided to let AMD speak for itself. The site forwarded the questions to the company and eventually received a response from Chris Hook of AMD Global Communications, who pulled no punches in his answers. Asked when GPU-accelerated Havok games might actually start shipping, Hook pointed out that Nvidia's own hardware-based physics solutions, PhysX, hasn't exactly set the world on fire. "PhysX has been around for years and years, but today, GPU-accelerated PhysX titles are still in the single digits," he said. "The physics experiences that many of those titles delivered have disappointed gamers and were widely panned by the press worldwide. GPU accelerated game physics will only be accepted in the marketplace when industry standards are embraced."

He was even blunter in response to a question about why AMD is focusing on DirectX 11 when "most games are on DX9 console ports," saying, "If NV was able to produce a DirectX11 card today, they'd be delivering a much different narrative on DirectX 11 to the press. If NV really believes that DirectX 11 doesn't matter, then we challenge them to say that publicly, on the record."

I knew the competition between AMD and Nvidia was intense but I had no idea it was so nasty. Shane Baxtor of TweakTown, meanwhile, claimed the site wasn't trying to stir up any trouble between the two companies. "NVIDIA asked the questions, though, and we thought that it was just fair that we get an answer to them," he said, adding that he believes such exchanges are good for users. "It keeps users informed of what's happening in the market and just is generally helpful information," he continued. "Hopefully it is questions and answers like these that push more PhysX or Havoc enabled games on the market while also getting people excited about Direct X 11 and what it's going to offer over the years."


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johnman

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Oct 14, 2008
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Hey slow down, I havent even used Dx 10 yet!
I have a dx 10 card but refused to move to vista for it, hopefully that will change for windows 7.
I always prefered Nvidia over ATI but really couldn't care less about dx 11 at the moment.
 

AceDiamond

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Kwil said:
George144 said:
What happened to DX10, we don't seem to have got much use out of it so far.
Bioshock is shur purty with it though..

And Batman's pretty sweet lookin' with PhysX too.

Yeah, I'm bringin' out my epeen 'bout my puter.. I get to do it so rarely. :)
Speaking of PhysX, I wish that would catch on better. I keep imagining what a game like Red Faction: Guerrilla could do with it.
 

Virgil

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Jun 13, 2002
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George144 said:
What happened to DX10, we don't seem to have got much use out of it so far.
DirectX 11 is more like DirectX 10.5. The major features involve better multithreading support and an interface for programmable GPU's. The funny thing is that both of them will run just fine on DirectX 10 hardware - they just need to be added to the drivers. This could mean some major performance gains for everyone running even moderate video cards with modern processors, so it can't really happen soon enough.

The major feature that requires hardware support is tessellation, which will be very cool, but not until it's pretty widely available. Even then it's mostly eye candy.
 

VincentX3

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So is it going to be...

A) DX9 > DX11 > DX10

Or

B) DX11 > DX9 > DX10


Yea, I never saw much use of DX10 other than very very few games that look just as well in DX9, plus they run faster.

(Crysis and Devil May Cry 4, for example)
 

samsonguy920

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Seems kinda silly for the graphic card makers to be trying to push the envelope, when remarkably right now no games really are since we caught up with what Crytek pushed us to, mostly. DirectX11? Whassat? Oh it follows DirectX10...wait, whats that?
 

Lord Krunk

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I would have to agree with him there. PhysX is awesome, but why throttle it on an AMD card? Why throttle anything on an AMD card?

It's unpopular for that very reason; exclusiveness makes it worthless.
 

hansari

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Virgil said:
George144 said:
What happened to DX10, we don't seem to have got much use out of it so far.
DirectX 11 is more like DirectX 10.5....
I HAVE A QUESTION!

You always hear about different game engines like Havok and FMOD...but they all seem to revolve around DirectX in some way.

Is there nothing else besides DirectX? I mean, I know about OpenGL...but off all the different middleware everyone is trying to create, is their nothing to replace DirectX? (would replacing DirectX be silly like replacing numerals in mathematics?)
 

Lord George

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Virgil said:
George144 said:
What happened to DX10, we don't seem to have got much use out of it so far.
DirectX 11 is more like DirectX 10.5. The major features involve better multithreading support and an interface for programmable GPU's. The funny thing is that both of them will run just fine on DirectX 10 hardware - they just need to be added to the drivers. This could mean some major performance gains for everyone running even moderate video cards with modern processors, so it can't really happen soon enough.

The major feature that requires hardware support is tessellation, which will be very cool, but not until it's pretty widely available. Even then it's mostly eye candy.
Oh well that makes sense, and hopefully means I won't have to keep paying even more money for another new graphic card, woo come on DirectX 11.
 

UberMore

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I couldn't care less about DirectX11 seeing as I literally only just learnt about it at the start of this thread, and I'm gonna assume that's the same for quite alot of people.
As long as nVidia create a card that supports DX11 when it comes out, I'll be happy, or a driver that allows me to keep my now archaic 8600GT 256MB.
 

Kenjitsuka

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I'm running Windows 7, and Vista as soon as they became available for the Technet Plus subscribers, and bought a DX10 video card the day it came out (the most expensive one even).

And what do I play? PS3 and Xbox 360 games... oh yeah, and as of this week WoW.
So screw DX11... Let's start focusing on gamePLAY darnit! :(
 

Doug

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Apr 23, 2008
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AceDiamond said:
George144 said:
What happened to DX10, we don't seem to have got much use out of it so far.
Well DX10 is a Vista thing and Vista was...well unpopular.
UNDERSTATEMENT!

Although to be fair, I think Vista got a bad rap because it was rushed out too soon; its not really any worse than XP now, especially if you take a few minutes to customise stuff. But hey, now its cool to hate Vista, and Windows 7 is on the horizon, so I doubt it'll ever redeem itself.

Anywho, to be honest, I doubt DirectX 10 or 11 will set the world on fire; its good GAMES, GAMEPLAY, and (where appropriate) STORY that make a good worth owning in general; lately, its just been 'my graphics are shinier and/or grittier than yours!'; though, there have been a few really good games lately, like Batman, and Mass Effect, and GTA IV, and so forth (and no, I don't care which of those you personally hate).
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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Wow, a PC hardware topic... on Escapist? How strange.

Anyway, to inform people who are "disappointed" that games run slower on DX10 compared to DX9 well news flash: a game will run slower in DX9 compared to DX8 mode too. The move from one Direct X API to a higher one is never to improve efficiency (framerate) but improve the quality of graphics, that inevitably has a hardware cost but hardware gets more powerful and cheaper all the time.

But to spite so many game developers (Epic, Crytech, Codemasters, Ubisoft Montreal, 2K games, Capcom) at least supporting DX10 as an alternate rendering mode the fact that big hitters like Infinity Ward, Valve, Bethesda, Monolith and even id-software are not supporting DX10 at all means DX10 remains a novelty, especially considering these developers are able to do so much with DX9 alone

Yes, I said id-software, RAGE will not support DX10 and apparently will be open-gl anyway.

I think it is more important to get the most out of DX9 at the moment to build on previously learned skills with one API rather than try rushing to a newer API tat you have no experience with.

Of course developers should offer DX10 as an alternate rendering mode and kind of "testing ground" if there is time in the development cycle.

The transition from DX9 to DX10 or DX11 or whatever will be long and tough, but I am confident a game built from the grund up and exclusively for DX10 will be absolutely amazing... but no doubt will cripple even the most powerful graphics cards.