174: What if the Player is Black?

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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snowplow said:
What if the player is black? Why should it matter? Do black players have some sort of privilege over white players? Over Asian players? If your protagonist is white and you're not, will you refuse to play the game?
The problem doesn't occur when a protagonist is white, it occurs when nearly every protagonist is white.

-- Alex
 

Brenda Brathwaite

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Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
What if the player is black? Why should it matter? Do black players have some sort of privilege over white players? Over Asian players? If your protagonist is white and you're not, will you refuse to play the game?
The problem doesn't occur when a protagonist is white, it occurs when nearly every protagonist is white.

-- Alex
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
 

jamesworkshop

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Diablo 2 deckard cain is black
http://girlsofwar.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/deckard-cain2.jpg
but since they did the deckard cain rap maybe its not a good exsample
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GLs6OHlSdyE

Some how I can't imagine producers or publishers forcing developers to only make white characters its probably a non-concious desicion based around the race of the creator than anything else.
I don't understand the whole idea of someone being a minority like the Chinese despite china having a population of 1 billion (obviously not all are chinese) or about 1/6 of the worlds total population not excatly a minority considering games are released world wide not just North America.
As for Persia being ancient Iran I doubt it would make people stop playing it the character model is visually not white although he certainly didn't sound very Iranian to me so a name change wouldn't effect anyone that wasn't rasict.
Rememinds me of onion movie

No thanks i don't drink or do drugs im just looking for directions to the local library
-Random black guy walks into a bar
 

Alex_P

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snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
 

Brenda Brathwaite

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Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
 

ThePlasmatizer

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snowplow said:
Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
No, it's because you don't understand what racial stereotyping is like and you don't understand what it's like to be in a minority.

Imagine you live in a predominantly black community and the video games released most often portrayed white people as thugs, this is what racial stereotyping feels like.
 

Brenda Brathwaite

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snowplow said:
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
I have had to deal with that exact problem irl many times. A ex used to be soo very anal about indians, arabs, blacks how you cant just lump them all together and each one has to be respected as being different yet all whites were just the same to her. She was 1/16th maori and despite the rest of her bloodline being english and the fact she was whiter then a snowman she still insisted on being identified as being maori... So I always gave her shit about the fact that whites can be from many different cultures but if someone just referred to them as "white" she would not put up a argument as she did with all other races.

I am also sick and tired of any time you have a problem with someone of a ethnic minority they always play the race card. You can never just hate them because they are stupid it always comes down to race.
To put it simply the race card has been overplayed and is unimportant. I dont care if youre black, asian, white or any other mix thereof, I hate all you stupid whiney bastards equally.
 

brazuca

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avykins said:
snowplow said:
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
I have had to deal with that exact problem irl many times. A ex used to be soo very anal about indians, arabs, blacks how you cant just lump them all together and each one has to be respected as being different yet all whites were just the same to her. She was 1/16th maori and despite the rest of her bloodline being english and the fact she was whiter then a snowman she still insisted on being identified as being maori... So I always gave her shit about the fact that whites can be from many different cultures but if someone just referred to them as "white" she would not put up a argument as she did with all other races.

I am also sick and tired of any time you have a problem with someone of a ethnic minority they always play the race card. You can never just hate them because they are stupid it always comes down to race.
To put it simply the race card has been overplayed and is unimportant. I dont care if youre black, asian, white or any other mix thereof, I hate all you stupid whiney bastards equally.
HUahahahahahahaha! That's the most dubious thing I have heard, 'till now.
I'm... Complicated both my parents are mixed races, so I can tell you that everyone (white Italians, white Irish, black African American, black African, asian Japanese, asian Chinese) suffers from some kind of stereotype. The main issue is that with african descent that stereotype is very negative. They only lose to arabs and east europeans, who are usually terrorists or the wrost kind of people on 80's movie, communist.
 

Brenda Brathwaite

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ThePlasmatizer said:
snowplow said:
Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
No, it's because you don't understand what racial stereotyping is like and you don't understand what it's like to be in a minority.

Imagine you live in a predominantly black community and the video games released most often portrayed white people as thugs, this is what racial stereotyping feels like.
The entire issue is that "colored people" are whining about being represented in videogames. So when they do get put in the game, they whine about how they're being put in as negative stereotypes. No stereotypes? So you want a different colored character that's the same as any other character? What the hell is the point of doing that?
You really expect me to believe you won't whine even if you get that? Once the stereotypes get removed and C.J. of San Andreas becomes a proper tuxedo wearing gentleman, you won't start bitching about how he's not "black" anymore, he's just white with black skin?
Then it comes down to what exactly defines "black". His mannerisms? Beliefs? Culture? None of these things are represented in games.
You disgusting people say "black, white, asian, hispanic" all so easily, and in doing so you cheapen yourselves and everyone else.

Really, this whole topic is fucking disgusting. Fuck I can barely type. You say "black culture" and in doing so you say that Kenyan culture is equal to Haitian or Jamaican culture.
You say "white" and you lump French culture and Norwegian culture together.

Fuck I can't believe you people's shamelessness.


So much for "they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character"
Screw character, all that matters is skin color right?

It basically comes down to this: "I want a black character because my skin color is black. Fuck everyone else."
 

ThePlasmatizer

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snowplow said:
ThePlasmatizer said:
snowplow said:
Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
No, it's because you don't understand what racial stereotyping is like and you don't understand what it's like to be in a minority.

Imagine you live in a predominantly black community and the video games released most often portrayed white people as thugs, this is what racial stereotyping feels like.
The entire issue is that "colored people" are whining about being represented in videogames. So when they do get put in the game, they whine about how they're being put in as negative stereotypes. No stereotypes? So you want a different colored character that's the same as any other character? What the hell is the point of doing that?
You really expect me to believe you won't whine even if you get that? Once the stereotypes get removed and C.J. of San Andreas becomes a proper tuxedo wearing gentleman, you won't start bitching about how he's not "black" anymore, he's just white with black skin?
Then it comes down to what exactly defines "black". His mannerisms? Beliefs? Culture? None of these things are represented in games.
You disgusting people say "black, white, asian, hispanic" all so easily, and in doing so you cheapen yourselves and everyone else.

Really, this whole topic is fucking disgusting. Fuck I can barely type. You say "black culture" and in doing so you say that Kenyan culture is equal to Haitian or Jamaican culture.
You say "white" and you lump French culture and Norwegian culture together.

Fuck I can't believe you people's shamelessness.


So much for "they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character"
Screw character, all that matters is skin color right?

It basically comes down to this: "I want a black character because my skin color is black. Fuck everyone else."
You need to calm down, this is an internet forum.

What's wrong with a black character that's just the same as every other character?
You do live in the real world don't you? not every black guy you meet on the street will be a hip hop thug thug and although it's suitable for a character role in something like GTA it's used as a stereotype in every other game, and there's no reason why you can't have a tuxedo wearing black gentlemen if you want too you should look up Chris Eubanks.

Also who is lumping all the different cultures together? we are talking about someones racial background not their nationality or cultural background.

Your view of the arguement is very narrow minded and you can't even understand peoples dislike of a stereotype since you don't know what it's like to be in a minority.
 

Brenda Brathwaite

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ThePlasmatizer said:
snowplow said:
ThePlasmatizer said:
snowplow said:
Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
No, it's because you don't understand what racial stereotyping is like and you don't understand what it's like to be in a minority.

Imagine you live in a predominantly black community and the video games released most often portrayed white people as thugs, this is what racial stereotyping feels like.
The entire issue is that "colored people" are whining about being represented in videogames. So when they do get put in the game, they whine about how they're being put in as negative stereotypes. No stereotypes? So you want a different colored character that's the same as any other character? What the hell is the point of doing that?
You really expect me to believe you won't whine even if you get that? Once the stereotypes get removed and C.J. of San Andreas becomes a proper tuxedo wearing gentleman, you won't start bitching about how he's not "black" anymore, he's just white with black skin?
Then it comes down to what exactly defines "black". His mannerisms? Beliefs? Culture? None of these things are represented in games.
You disgusting people say "black, white, asian, hispanic" all so easily, and in doing so you cheapen yourselves and everyone else.

Really, this whole topic is fucking disgusting. Fuck I can barely type. You say "black culture" and in doing so you say that Kenyan culture is equal to Haitian or Jamaican culture.
You say "white" and you lump French culture and Norwegian culture together.

Fuck I can't believe you people's shamelessness.


So much for "they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character"
Screw character, all that matters is skin color right?

It basically comes down to this: "I want a black character because my skin color is black. Fuck everyone else."
You need to calm down, this is an internet forum.

What's wrong with a black character that's just the same as every other character?
You do live in the real world don't you? not every black guy you meet on the street will be a hip hop thug thug and although it's suitable for a character role in something like GTA it's used as a stereotype in every other game, and there's no reason why you can't have a tuxedo wearing black gentlemen if you want too you should look up Chris Eubanks.

Also who is lumping all the different cultures together? we are talking about someones racial background not their nationality or cultural background.

Your view of the arguement is very narrow minded and you can't even understand peoples dislike of a stereotype since you don't know what it's like to be in a minority.
So you're saying stereotypes are only bad when they're about minorities and you promote division among people based on skin color, because skin color is the only thing that makes a person who they are.

Awesome.
 

Cyclomega

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Eldritch Warlord said:
Kinda random:

How does the term "Negro" go over? To me Negro is the proper name for dark-skinned people and calling a Negro person "black" sounds sort of insulting. I know that Negro just comes from the Romans calling people from Africa black but still, it's proper.

Obviously gamers are among the more open minded of people (fanboys aside) so I'm really asking about how your family and friends would react.
Niger/nigra/-um, Latin adj. = black (see also atrus/-a/-um)

Oh, and about the whole ranting about respect us/race card/stereotypes...

Romanians and croatians could have whined about their depiction in GTA IV, Latinos about Total Overdose/Chili con Carnage/Vice City...

Want me to go on ? Now seriously, is it even possible to IMAGINE putting all politics aside, stop turning everything about racism and just play the games ?
You want a black character being the hero and being a fine example we can all relate to ?
Meh... why it is worse in games than in movies ? Just the same bullshit...

Undercover brother was a counter-stereotype movie, and it was just as obnoxious (even if I laughed hard). All whites don't eat mayonnaise and wear sleeveles v-collar sweaters...

Negative stereotypes huh ? Funny enough they tend to play themselves out...
Strangely enough the same black people whining about racist clichés (I'm talking about people I've seen around me where I live) flock en masse in KFCs, eat waddymeluns, listen to obnoxious "booty rap" or other tropically sugar-coated crap... but I'm not supposed to point that out because I'm white ?

Reverse the problem, I've already said it : why are blacks depicted as nizzles in many a game ?
Because it's the same nizzles that buy those games... See Souja Boi again for the most caricatural example...
 

Alex_P

All I really do is threadcrap
Mar 27, 2008
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snowplow said:
Alex_P said:
snowplow said:
I don't see why skin color is a factor in the first place.
Well, according to the author it's culturally isolating. That's what her story about Barbados is all about.

-- Alex
So basically the author is saying all white people are the same, but blacks have unique cultures? How is that not racist? Why is israeli culture not represented in games? What about french culture?

Its culturally isolating for me to not identify with the lack of cultural expression in games.

Except I'm not black, so apparently it doesn't count. Because I'm less important than a black person. Right?
No.

My understanding is that she's saying that being able to create a video-game character who looks like you or one of your family members offers younger players a way to identify with the game. Or to affirm and explore their own identities, perhaps.

That's the first part. The second part is about characters who talk and dress like you -- that's culture. Read the article. She laments that characters with Caribbean accents are most often found as underworld thugs. She laments that most games seem to typecast blacks into "Do you want an afro or cornrows?"

Read the goddamn introductory text. "What if the player is _____?" is an important question regardless of what you shove into the blank. She's just answering "What if the player is black?" because it speaks to her personal experience. I don't know where all your rage about "I'm less important than a black person" is coming from, but it's misdirected.

-- Alex
 

Smokescreen

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An interesting article, and well supplemented by many of the comments here.

I think snowplow is demonstrating why this subject is so difficult to talk about. S/He arrived angry, and nothing anyone says can quench that. But it's important to note; while this is the kind of thing that gets people's backs up right quick, it's certainly better to have a discussion than to never ask the questions.

@Cylomega: Spain is Southwest Europe--Google maps would be your friend here.
 

brazuca

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http://www.cracked.com/article_16605_8-most-obnoxious-internet-commenters.html

If some of you don't know about it. Blacks don't need to be a clown (nor repreeeseent, ya 'kow), so is any other etnic group. Tell you what, go to a country where you are the minority (I'll pick japan). Then you get there you will see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_issues_in_Japan
Then if you don't like Japan and prefer a more white country, yet in the first world, I'll pick France. If you are american preper to be insulted, if you are Argelian, well... You know.

Now you wouldn't like a foreign depicting americans like a stereotype? http://www.rooshv.com/2007/american-stereotypes-are-so-hurtful See?!
 

Pat M.

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http://tokenminorities.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/suggestions-for-talking-about-race-and-video-games/

and

http://tokenminorities.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/the-litmus-test-for-new-racism/

will be interesting to some of y'all in this thread.
 

YuppySlime

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What about Dr. Eli Vance? He was a scientist and a pretty sweet dude overall. I don't disagree with this article, in fact I pretty much agree with it on all points. I just was sort of waiting for the acknowledgment of that character. Perhaps as some sort of validation that... I don't know its, the only really positive black character I could think of. HOWEVER, it popped up in my head before any others. Black video game character = Dr. Eli Vance. So his image in that game had staying power, and it was positive. I guess I just wanted to have it acknowledged.
 

SirCannonFodder

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Smokescreen said:
@Cylomega: Spain is Southwest Europe--Google maps would be your friend here.
I believe Cylomega was replying sarcastically to Lostlevel, who said that RE4 was set in east Europe.