Quest for the Sidequest!
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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I always had it in my head that the key to Sledge's hideout was needed because it doesn't just unlock the gate, it activates the portal behind it - I have this whole theory that the portals are basically mini New-U stations that kill you off and recreate you at the exit.
The quest that pissed me off the most has to be the entire Thieve's Guild quest in Oblivion. Mainly the bit where you have to sneak through a monastery where all the monks are blind. Could I not just kill them all, then use the power of the Elder Scroll to bring them back to life? They picked me up in a jail, so they would know already that I'm fairly morally bankrupt...
That, or any survival horror door that requires a star-shaped pendant, an uncut ruby the size of a baby's skull and a three-speed vibrator to open.
The quest that pissed me off the most has to be the entire Thieve's Guild quest in Oblivion. Mainly the bit where you have to sneak through a monastery where all the monks are blind. Could I not just kill them all, then use the power of the Elder Scroll to bring them back to life? They picked me up in a jail, so they would know already that I'm fairly morally bankrupt...
That, or any survival horror door that requires a star-shaped pendant, an uncut ruby the size of a baby's skull and a three-speed vibrator to open.
The borderlands 'fetch' quests really are quite annoying. The 'save claptap' quests are all the same. Killing enemies who respawn at a rather disquieting pace is too, One i killed a whole town of bandits, 'badasses' and Psychos with a slither of health left, i pick a few things up and all the buggers are back again, it's like how 'Legendary' on PS3 annoyed me, it was lazy, instead of new enemies all around, same enemy keeps coming after you've killed it, in the same numbers too. until your objective is complete.
The only thing i don't think was lazy in borderlands was the models, and maps. Though i'm enjoying myself playing it neathertheless.
The only thing i don't think was lazy in borderlands was the models, and maps. Though i'm enjoying myself playing it neathertheless.
I liked this article alot. The opening bit reminded me of Condemed.
That game had some of the most retarded doors I remember. They required a sledgehammer to open and this sledgehammer is located in some dark corner in the apartment of the local axe-murderer and his brother, Mr. Stabs-alot.
I also recall most of the doors in Half-life 2 because they're all made of flimsy wood and your character has a CROWBAR. As an extra slap to the face the Combine get to use explosives in episode 2 to blow the doors open. But what do your rocket launcher, grenades, explosive barrels, and land mines do to a flimsy wooden door? NOTHING! Doesn't even scratch the door...
That game had some of the most retarded doors I remember. They required a sledgehammer to open and this sledgehammer is located in some dark corner in the apartment of the local axe-murderer and his brother, Mr. Stabs-alot.
I also recall most of the doors in Half-life 2 because they're all made of flimsy wood and your character has a CROWBAR. As an extra slap to the face the Combine get to use explosives in episode 2 to blow the doors open. But what do your rocket launcher, grenades, explosive barrels, and land mines do to a flimsy wooden door? NOTHING! Doesn't even scratch the door...
Fable, ah yes.
It irritates me when games do this, the moment the obstacle arises i have come up with several ways to walk around it rather than waste by time chasing a key. It seems like a symptom of lacking creativity. the game is a bit too short, so you make the sections that should have been 'open door' drag on by making the door unopenable. All the while too lazy to make the door actually a difficult obstacle. Frustrating the player by forcing them into a more difficult scenarion when an obvious solution exists.
Become champion of mortality rate mountain, be deliberately enslaved 30 feet away from the dude you are supposed to kill, run about a bit, become famous(even though you've already saved the world a few times)enlist tosser, go through tunnel with tosser, fight crystal, be taken to dude, by dude (who is now a frail old man) Realise piss poor crystal was final boss, then kill dude after a weird dream sequence. As apposed to, get a boat, sail out, shoot him in the face.
I always liked the idea that the original "Fallout" games did with their "dungeons". They set everything up with hostile NPCs, treasure and traps everywhere, but leave it to the player to decide how to navigate around it. There may be a few locked doors with a possible "key" somewhere (in the dungeon), but there were other options to get around the locked doors--like picking the lock on the door.
I could easily think of "Zelda: Phantom Hourglass" being really annoying with their fetch quests. Especially about going back to the "main dungeon" to acquire maps to get to other areas. I'd rant further on it, but Yahtzee touched on it perfectly in his review for the game. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/13-Zelda-Phantom-Hourglass]
I could easily think of "Zelda: Phantom Hourglass" being really annoying with their fetch quests. Especially about going back to the "main dungeon" to acquire maps to get to other areas. I'd rant further on it, but Yahtzee touched on it perfectly in his review for the game. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/13-Zelda-Phantom-Hourglass]
In defense of the rubber chicken with the pulley in the middle, that would have been a really far swim..... or something...
I always enjoy the doors that are "magic" that can not be picked, bashed, etc.
I always enjoy the doors that are "magic" that can not be picked, bashed, etc.
Once you rescue President's Daughter, just try to take her back the way you came in when you first entered the village.Vlane said:
Rule of Fun in my opinion. Yeah, it would be easier to just knock down the weakest door ever, but it would a hell of a lot more boring than going through Hell and back to get it. Just my opinion though, because for some people the amount of stupidity of some side-quests is enough to break that fun. Just not for me.
What I dont understand is, why do they keep DOING it? If you're making a game, you have to atleast played other games before, and thus know how annoying and retarded some of these are, so why doesnt any developers try to fix it?
In Oblivion, not killing off the Monks is kinda justified, because the Theves Guild makes a big point of not murdering people, though they do drop that in the next couple quests or so.Chipperz said:
What isn't justified in Oblivion is the unpickable doors. I'm playing a thief who is probably the most accomplished lockpicker alive on Tamriel, I have the Skeleton Key (an ultimate lockpick from A GOD!) I could easily pick those 14 tumbler locks mentioned in the fluff books, and I cannot pick the door on this rickety old shack because it's tied into a plotline involving vampires!?
Fallout 3 has a similar issue with it's plot only doorways. EDIT: Come to think of it, most of Fallout 3 boils down to this. Key 1 is tracking down your father (which works). Key 2 is finding the mcguffin from Fallout 2, because, you know, we didn't do that in 1998 (which would work, kinda, except the ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD IS WHERE!?, heh). To get each of these keys expect to run around aimlessly for others in the interrum. The entire game is goddamn fedex quests. I can't remember a single quest that was just, "Go out there and kill somethin' for me, would'ya kindly?"
STALKER, you're in a military instilation that was abandoned in 1985, it's now 2012 or so, the place is falling apart, and yet the auto lock doors still work. The LIGHTs don't even work anymore in most of the place. But the keypads do. You can't use a crowbar on the rusty door? Or even your knife if you're determined? Hell, you CAN wedge the doors open with a gun, but that is technically a physics engine exploit.
Knights of the Old Republic pulled two of these in a row on the first planet. First find the disguise, (never mind that your other party members AREN'T in disguise and standing RIGHT THERE), and after that pick up authorization papers, which, might be more justified if there was any point to it. The only reason these detours occur is to provide exposition.
Unfortunately, all of real life is just one ridiculous key fetch quest after another - the key in question being "enough money".
I'm surprised that in the 30 years of computer gaming, nobody's tried too hard to move beyond the model of "there's exactly one way to overcome this obstacle, and it is to fetch key X". Scribblenauts went too far the other direction; there has to be a reasonable middle ground.
The Incredible Machine came pretty close, although many of those puzzles were so constrained in resources that there was really only one right way of solving it.
I'm surprised that in the 30 years of computer gaming, nobody's tried too hard to move beyond the model of "there's exactly one way to overcome this obstacle, and it is to fetch key X". Scribblenauts went too far the other direction; there has to be a reasonable middle ground.
The Incredible Machine came pretty close, although many of those puzzles were so constrained in resources that there was really only one right way of solving it.
Oh god, BB just reminded me of another glaring instance. Saints Row 2. I love the game, but EVERY MISSION requires that you get X ammount of respect before you can attempt it. To gain respect you have to do things that have NOTHING to do with the rest of the game. So to go meet with a local crime boss, you have to first spray down a corporate park with raw sewage. No rational for how these two events relate. For that crime boss to retaliate to you MURDERING his girlfriend, you have to complete a MMA tournament. To have an enemy attempt to assassinate a character from the first game you have to ramp your car off a dozzen or so hidden stunt jumps.
The activities are all interchangable, so you could win the MMA tourny to talk with the crime boss, which makes a little sense, since we're talking about Worf (Michael Dorn) here, but, driving down the wrong side of the road for long enough will get net you enough respect as well (I'm serious).
The activities are all interchangable, so you could win the MMA tourny to talk with the crime boss, which makes a little sense, since we're talking about Worf (Michael Dorn) here, but, driving down the wrong side of the road for long enough will get net you enough respect as well (I'm serious).
If you want repetative, monotonous key-collectory then Phantasy Star Universe is the game for you. Pretty much every level has you repeatedly backtracking between areas to kill a hoarde of enemies, make them drop a generic key and pass a gate. Go through said gate and you are presented with yet another gate. Take the only other path and you find some enemies. Kill those enemies and you find a lovely key to open the next gate. Rinse and repeat.
It seems that random creatures are so bogged down with time to kill that they set up laser gates to trap the next questing hero that came along, dispersed the keys amongst themselves and had a fun little party. It's not like they were really trying to stop you or they would have key all of the keys with the big baddy at the end of the level. If anyone needed a toilet break they could ask to be let out (or use the corner subtley).
But worst of all it happens on EVERY level, not just one section of a single level. All of them (to my memory at least) have gates of some form or another.
It seems that random creatures are so bogged down with time to kill that they set up laser gates to trap the next questing hero that came along, dispersed the keys amongst themselves and had a fun little party. It's not like they were really trying to stop you or they would have key all of the keys with the big baddy at the end of the level. If anyone needed a toilet break they could ask to be let out (or use the corner subtley).
But worst of all it happens on EVERY level, not just one section of a single level. All of them (to my memory at least) have gates of some form or another.
I hate in any game when you have to go out to find a disguise or bribe or anything to get past two guards that you slaughter armies of afterward.
Sub-sub quests are annoying in general. It seems the closer you get to a climactic moment in a game, the more Murphy's Law seems to apply. I mean, replaying the first Xenosaga has me realizing the entire game is one long escort mission.
Sub-sub quests are annoying in general. It seems the closer you get to a climactic moment in a game, the more Murphy's Law seems to apply. I mean, replaying the first Xenosaga has me realizing the entire game is one long escort mission.
Can't remember the "most", but just about every time a game makes me go fetch a key to open a flimsy wooden door while I'm holding a shotgun and have 4 functional limbs makes me salivate in anger.Shamus Young said:
Not entirely sure, but I think I remember one in Fallout 3 where I have to go through the proverbial ninth circle of hell to fetch some sort of key to open a door lighter than the armour I was wearing...
I'll go further than you though. I personally hate fetch quests, and if they're going to make me fetch a key, I better be unlocking 20 inch thick gates made of steel and titanium... If I can kick, shoot or explode down a door with the gear I'm carrying, going for the key should be an option.
This sort of thing really annoys me.
It's not just doors, it's also when you have to take a long route when the obstacle actually looks scalable.
For instance, in Half-Life 2 there is this bit where Alyx scales a building to scout possible alternative paths because of a destroyed bridge (which to me appears less of an obstacle than the building), and you end up having to go through some tunnels.
I could see numerous ways that you could cross the gap (particularly if Gordon could climb half as well as Alyx, and considering that he has a gravity gun) and yet I have to take the way the developers think I should go.
Surely developers should avoid circumstance in which you wish for real-world logic over the logic of the game? And if a character doesn't posses the ability to do something that they should, by rights, be able to do, wouldn't it make more sense to make sure that the issue never comes up?
Edit: I just remembered; they knew about this sort of thing in the olden days as well. Take a look at <a href=http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cft/cft13.htm>this story.
At least that story follows through with its... logic.
It's not just doors, it's also when you have to take a long route when the obstacle actually looks scalable.
For instance, in Half-Life 2 there is this bit where Alyx scales a building to scout possible alternative paths because of a destroyed bridge (which to me appears less of an obstacle than the building), and you end up having to go through some tunnels.
I could see numerous ways that you could cross the gap (particularly if Gordon could climb half as well as Alyx, and considering that he has a gravity gun) and yet I have to take the way the developers think I should go.
Surely developers should avoid circumstance in which you wish for real-world logic over the logic of the game? And if a character doesn't posses the ability to do something that they should, by rights, be able to do, wouldn't it make more sense to make sure that the issue never comes up?
Edit: I just remembered; they knew about this sort of thing in the olden days as well. Take a look at <a href=http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cft/cft13.htm>this story.
At least that story follows through with its... logic.
I have never had problems with this in rpg's but I think I have similar problems in shooters. I just dont see how in half life 2 the combine have a force field that everyone and their mother can go through but coincidentally you cant so you have to find a way around. And your allies cant get past it either for some reason. You dont even get a key.
Also any game that has you walk around the ditch because you cant jump it is kinda iffy.
Also any game that has you walk around the ditch because you cant jump it is kinda iffy.