2 NYPD Officers "Executed" by man claiming revenge for Garner and Brown

[Thaluikhain]

By you, I mean America. You are what the majority says you are, perception is everything.

The majority of Americans want guns to easily available, so America wants guns.

Do you have a source for that? Because, IIRC, only about 30% of US citizens own a gun. Presumably there are people who want guns to be easily available but don't own guns, but I see no reason to assume that the majority of US citizens want lots of guns around.

This was a completely uncalled for attack, there was no justification for taking the lives of these two officers. Nor any of the lives lost that have led to these tensions in the US. I look at this from an outsiders perspective, so I apologize if I do not have all the facts, but hasn't this shit gone on long enough? Why isn't there better gun control etc to help prevent these sorts of things from happening. I mean that for the police as well, here in NZ as far as I am aware, officers cannot carry firearms with them (there are certain exceptions) to prevent incidents, they are locked up in the police car and they have to be certain they need them before grabbing them. I believed it helps prevent innocent people being hurt, as we don't have many shootings often at all.

The US gun lobby is very powerful. Any politician that looks like a threat to it will lose votes, and/or be visited by angry gun owners dressed all in black.

When Obama was talking about gun control, he had to make sure there were pics of him with a shotgun, to show he's not anti-guns.

Now, I don't know how many of US gun owners would vote based on gun laws, but if a third of them did, that's something like 10% of the general population. That's quite a big voter base there.

(As for police not carrying guns...they do in Australia, and we don't have much in the way of police shootings either)

 

[Thaluikhain]

You could have at least put all the places to stay out of in alphabetical order, or are they ranked in order of stay the hell out of ness?

 

[IceForce]

Victim blaming? That's what we're resorting to? Seriously?

This thread is a fucking disgrace.

This is 100% the fault of the police. If they had just accepted wrongdoing and given their officer a fair trial for Garner's death, this wouldn't have happened.

"This is 100% her fault. If she hadn't been wearing that revealing outfit and hadn't gone wandering around town alone, she would not have been raped."

Ring any bells?

 

[The Choke]

Great. He quoted 50 Cent. Now everybody is going to start whining about rap music condoning cop-killers. I want to know why nobody ever accuses Foreigner of supporting statutory rape with the line "are you old enough, will you be ready when I call your bluff?" All of my eye-rolls.

 

[000Ronald]

This is 100% the fault of the police. If they had just accepted wrongdoing and given their officer a fair trial for Garner's death, this wouldn't have happened.

"This is 100% her fault. If she hadn't been wearing that revealing outfit and hadn't gone wandering around town alone, she would not have been raped."

Ring any bells?

...ok, I've tried to stay more or less neutral, but no. That is flatly a false equivocation.

A woman has no responsibility to fuck any desperate and horny rapist jackass who crosses her path. Any of them. Ever. And anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

The police do have a responsibility to their community; to serve and protect. And whether or not it is true, it seems to an awful lot of people that in a lot of cases, including at least one case in New York, that they have not only failed in that responsibility, but they have failed catastrophically, and continued to fail literally every step along the way. Furthermore this is one in a series of incidents that has incited a nationwide discussion concerning police misconduct, not just because of a series of high-profile deaths, but because every time those communities officers have been sworn to protect have stood up and demanded answers they have been struck down with as much force as the police could muster. And that was before those officers denied any kind of wronging or misconduct in any of these cases.

There was no reason for these two men to die, and their murder is both a tragedy and an unacceptable loss...but for the New York Police to not to have expected this kind of blowback ought to stretch your disbelief to the breaking point. When you not only flatly refuse to take responsibility for the deaths of several people, not only brutalize people that demand answers for what they see as blatant misconduct, but go on the radio and brag [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/21/3606084/how-a-startling-admission-from-the-ferguson-prosector-could-restart-the-case-against-darren-wilson/] about knowingly presenting false testimony in order to acquit an officer, you are going to piss off a lot of people. And some of those people are going to react violently. It's tragic, and it's deplorable, but it is something that always happens, and the police department have done nothing to mitigate this. Hell, the only person doing any sort of active damage control is Mayor de Blasio, and they blamed him for the murder [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/20/3606034/police-union-president-blames-protesters-mayor-deblasio-for-murder-of-two-new-york-city-police-officers/].

These are not the actions of a group dedicated to serving and protecting, these are the actions of a group of violent thugs. And a number of people-myself included-feel that this behavior is unacceptable. If they wish to continue to serve and protect, then need to act like it.

 

[Kopikatsu]

I fully agree with all of this, which is why I said "perhaps a case can actually be made . . . if you really wanted to" while the rest of my post actually argued against that this was indicative of mental illness. It is very easy for people to claim that only the mentally ill could be driven to willfully end the life of another human being, but, as I alluded in the post you quoted, reality and history does not at all suggest such. My whole point with that post was to demonstrate that humanity has a long history of a propensity for violence for a wide variety of reasons that mental illness has nothing to do with.

In all honesty, I'm not really sure how I feel about these two officers being murdered as they were, but what I do know, is that if something doesn't change, if police don't start being held accountable for their actions on a more consistent basis, if they keep getting away with what many people consider to be gross miscarriages of justice, there will come a point where people will en mass take matters into their own hands, and it won't be because of "mental illness" but because they were made to feel that they had no other option. And that kind of violent revolution against the government was the very foundation upon which America was created.

The actual problem is that the MSM constantly attempts to incite race riots in order to garner views. A lot of the information the media has been putting out lately has either been boldfaced lies or blatant misinformation, but they aren't being held accountable for it. NBC was sued for editing phone recordings in order to paint Zimmerman as a racist, but the case was dismissed because "No reasonable person could believe NBC acted in malice". Yeah. Right. More recently the media has dug their teeth into the fact that one pro-Wilson witness lied on the stand. Surprise! A lot of witnesses lied one way or another. https://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/grandjury.png

Just two examples, but fairly high profile ones. People are only outraged because the manipulation of information ensures that they only see what the MSM has manufactured to generate the maximum response from the public. I'd list more, but it's 3AM and I have work in the morning. Regardless, the media needs to start being held accountable for what they're doing. Freedom of the press only goes so far.

 

[Adultratedhydra]

#Notallminorities right guys? Thats how these sorts of things work isnt it? those words excuse everything right no matter how reprehensible the actions?

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

This is 100% the fault of the police. If they had just accepted wrongdoing and given their officer a fair trial for Garner's death, this wouldn't have happened.

"This is 100% her fault. If she hadn't been wearing that revealing outfit and hadn't gone wandering around town alone, she would not have been raped."

Ring any bells?

...ok, I've tried to stay more or less neutral, but no. That is flatly a false equivocation.

A woman has no responsibility to fuck any desperate and horny rapist jackass who crosses her path. Any of them. Ever. And anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

The police do have a responsibility to their community; to serve and protect. And whether or not it is true, it seems to an awful lot of people that in a lot of cases, including at least one case in New York, that they have not only failed in that responsibility, but they have failed catastrophically, and continued to fail literally every step along the way. Furthermore this is one in a series of incidents that has incited a nationwide discussion concerning police misconduct, not just because of a series of high-profile deaths, but because every time those communities officers have been sworn to protect have stood up and demanded answers they have been struck down with as much force as the police could muster. And that was before those officers denied any kind of wronging or misconduct in any of these cases.

There was no reason for these two men to die, and their murder is both a tragedy and an unacceptable loss...but for the New York Police to not to have expected this kind of blowback ought to stretch your disbelief to the breaking point. When you not only flatly refuse to take responsibility for the deaths of several people, not only brutalize people that demand answers for what they see as blatant misconduct, but go on the radio and brag [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/21/3606084/how-a-startling-admission-from-the-ferguson-prosector-could-restart-the-case-against-darren-wilson/] about knowingly presenting false testimony in order to acquit an officer, you are going to piss off a lot of people. And some of those people are going to react violently. It's tragic, and it's deplorable, but it is something that always happens, and the police department have done nothing to mitigate this. Hell, the only person doing any sort of active damage control is Mayor de Blasio, and they blamed him for the murder [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/20/3606034/police-union-president-blames-protesters-mayor-deblasio-for-murder-of-two-new-york-city-police-officers/].

These are not the actions of a group dedicated to serving and protecting, these are the actions of a group of violent thugs. And a number of people-myself included-feel that this behavior is unacceptable. If they wish to continue to serve and protect, then need to act like it.

Thank you. (And we're not even going into whether or not this guy was sincere about the vengeance thing or just being opportunistic.)

 

[FirstNameLastName]

By you, I mean America. You are what the majority says you are, perception is everything.

Actually, you are what you are. Your perception of what people are means nothing.

The majority of Americans want guns to easily available, so America wants guns.

Nope. The majority of Americans want guns to be easily available, therefor the majority of Americans want guns. This should be simple reasoning.

Is it just generalizations? Yes but I disn't think I needed to clarify or throw out percentages on pro vs anti gun law. Don't know why I thought that, seems you have to clarify everything to the most insignificant degree.

You post sweeping generalizations about an entire nation and then get snarky when people call you out on it? Classy.
You yourself said that perception is everything, and now you're offend by other people's perception of you statements?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

If this man hadn't been angered by police conduct, he likely would have been just as angered by something else in the future and committed murder for that.

But he didn't. He killed police officers because he wanted revenge for their killing of an unarmed man. That is what happened.

So you think that revenge murder is a completely rational reaction to a situation?

For christ's sake, I already said it isn't. Why are you so desperate to force that view point into my argument?

Because it rather debunks the idea that nothing else could have possibly caused him to commit murder. It's impossible to say this murder was 100% caused by police actions when the person we're talking about could have just as easily been driven to that point by getting cheated on, or getting fired from work, or getting harassed by somebody on the street, or anything that makes him that angry.

Oooohhhh ok. That makes perfect sense. The man posted a picture on social media ranting and raving about police actions, and you're response is. "....nah must have been about something else."

And of course James Earl Ray's killing of Martin Luther King had NOTHING to do with racism. That guy was just a deranged lunatic who would have killed anyone for the smallest provocation.

My point is that tragedies such as this are an inevitability in a society inherently unjust and uninterested in the equality of all of it's citizens. If you can't recognize that, then you need to self reflect on your privilege.

The point is that the police was the trigger and the killing is the bomb. If you light a fuse on fire, you can light it with matches, with a lighter, with a cigarette, with a flamethrower, it doesn't MATTER what you light it with, it will explode. It just so HAPPENED to be the police that lit this man up. It COULD have been anything.


Nobody is saying the police didn't trigger him, people are saying ANYTHING could have. That it just so happened to be that the police triggered him doesn't MEAN anything. That was just plain luck.

 

[WanderingFool]

Im not surprised in the slightest... just terribly dissapointed...

 

[waj9876]

Are people in this forum seriously siding with this guy?

I bet the people siding with him are the same kind of people who think a woman "deserves it" if she's wearing skimpy clothing outside. You know, with the whole victim blaming thing going on. Congratulations fuckwits, you guys are part of the problem.

I am fucking disgusted at the people siding with this guy killing two cops for no good reason.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

Of all the ways of looking at what's happening in the country, this is both the simplest and most damaging. The government is not always right, and the people that enforce the will of the government are especially not always right; one could argue that our country was founded on that very basic principle. I understand respecting and appreciating the services that police officers provide, but to imagine that there has been absolutely no wrongdoing by any officer in recent months is patently absurd.

Right now we're in a transitional period in our country, which happens every now and again. Last time we had shifts this big, it was in order to abolish segregation; I think this time we might end up ending the drug war. At least that's the direction I see things going. If that is the direction we're going, then the police are necessarily going to end up on the wrong side of history, unless someone like Tom Dart [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Dart#Foreclosures] comes along and says, "No, this is fucking ridiculous, we need to stop." Which, being as people are now attacking the police outright, is doubtful to happen.

Are the police always right? Of course not. But the amount of times when people flip their shit over things in inversely proportional to the amount of times the cops actually do anything wrong. Which is to say, not often. You want to talk about doing something wrong? Lets talk about the cop who shot and killed Akai Gurley.......Oh wait, there is no reason to be outraged over that. The officer responsible is being put on trial for at least manslaughter (since the shooting was an accident), the NYPD is more strictly enforcing its policy so that there is ALWAYS a veteren officer on patrol sweeps, and I would bet money the NYPD will pay through the nose for compensation. So justice really has been served in that case. Too bad no one cares because they would rather complain about the death of a thug who assault police and a man who should have known to just let himself be arrested considering it was his 30th time for the same offense (and btw, if you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the medics who stood there and did nothing while he was screaming).

Sorry, but every time this "F**K Tha Po-Lice" attitude crops up, it makes me angry. My dad is a retired fire chief for the county fire department, and my brother is a current volunteer and is going to school to become a professional. So because of that, they-and by extension me- have always been close to the local police department, and many close family friends are police officers from as far away as San Antonio, TX. Every last one of the people I hear complain about the police are college students (which considering my dislike of anyone under the age of 35, just further makes it worse) who dont like that they are being arrested for drunked and disorderly conduct or because they want to do whatever the hell they want, screw the rules. There was a quote that I saw somewhere that sums up exactly how I feel, made on facebook by one of the family friends: Its a picture of a cop with his back half-turned to the camera and looking down at the ground, and it says "They will second guess every good act you do" across to top and "And believe every bad act without a shred of evidence" across the bottom. Never have truer words been said. There will ALWAYS be corrupt and killer cops, but they make up less than 1% of the police, hell, I would aruge they make up less than 1/2% of police. But you can bet your ass that when they catch even a wiff of blood in the water, even if its 100% justified, the sharks known as the media will be all over that shit and forget about the cops who do good, that is to say, 99.5% of police. And yet, if you try to say "All african americans are criminal thugs" you would rightly be called racist, but say "All cops are corrupt/killers" and WAY too many people will agree with you. The more this shitshow rolls on, the more and more I find myself thinking that the words of F-8 ("Fate") in Need For Speed: Rivals are true, and his actions justified since its implied that the population of Redview County is acting with the same rightous indignation as everything going on now.

Also, I call bullshit on your claim that "we are transitioning as a country." What we have here is the vultures of the media and race-baiters getting into a frenzy because they found a fresh corspe that they could sell controversy on, consequences be damned. So just like with Martin last year, they will keep this going to stoke anger, salivat over their corpse, and when people get bored, they will move on to their next corpse and start all over again with a different demographic, and then we will have to wait decades for the anger to finally die back down again. I will just keep sitting here and thank my lucky stars that I live in Kansas, and like the rest of the Midwest, we STILL respect our police and wont be angered over them killing criminals (while I didnt actually see it, I hear that the response to the anti-police protest from the college students in my town were responded to in a rather.....nasty way by the general population of my town. No violence, but much angry words). I swear, its the 1970's all over again, and just like then I am FIRMLY on the side of the Military (got called "Warmonger" for supporting Iraq. Told them to kiss my ass) and Police.

Spoiler: Some quotes from F-8 if you want to see what I am talking about

And just in case you need the context, its Street-racers have invaded Redview County, and are highly organized, driving exotic and super sports cars, and armed with illegal/stolen aftermarket parts such as EMP landmines and experimental turbos, and they are led by a street-racer who goes by the Internet handle "Zephyr". In order to keep up, the RCPD has reinforced its police fleets with their own exotic and super sports cars, experimental "anti-pursuit" technology like EMP guns and vehicle dropped spike strips, and a blank check from the county government to end the street-racing epidemic. You can choose to play as "Zephyr", the leader of the racers, or "F-8", an officer with the RCPD.

Opening:
"You may call us thugs, but deep down you know you need us. We are the Law. You cant catch devils with angels."

First Patrol:
"...People accuse us of using excessive force because we put people in the wall every now and then. But we aren't looking for a fair fight. We have to win every single time we turn our lights on or else the public losses faith that we can defend them. The bottom line is that fear commands respect. And if you endanger the ungrateful masses we protect, we'll come at you with everything we've got."


Gloves Come Off:
"Perception is reality. Law and Order only exist as long the public believes it. Today, they believe it less than yesterday. They see racers defying the laws without consequence. And When the laws no longer have teeth-when they become 'polite suggestions'-society breaks down. The public accuses us of intimidation, but the truth is that show of force is preferable to use of force. And when show of force isn't enough to maintain order, sometimes you have to settle for the real thing."

Excessive Force:
*After a Racer, revealed to be Zephyr in the Racer Campaign, forces a police officer to crash, injuring him* "Newtons third law says that for every action, there must be an equal and opposite reaction. Force must always be met with force. And EXCESSIVE force must be meet accordingly. The Racers have shown they are willing to cross the line in their quest to disrupt society. We must be willing to do the same to protect it. To teach our enemies that it is they who are in danger."

VRT Called In:
*After RCPD is shut down under investigation of a "Culture of Intimidation" and the FBI takes over. F-8 is still serving under limited duty* "I am not you. I am the dirt under your nails. I am the sin you deny at confession. The public ask us to defend them, sanctioning whatever violence it takes. They use words like "Necessary Force" to shield themselves from the fact that they have sent us to beat, maim, and kill those who would do the same to them. Deep down, they know they need us, because EVERYONE wants security, but only a few are willing to accept the price."

Go Rogue:
*After a frustrated and angry F-8 finishes his first patrol under limited duty* "We tried to play by the rules. And Where did that leave us? Chained up on the side of the road like dogs, forced to watch as the Racers mock us. We used to rely on strength of unity, a brotherhood bound by honor, believing that in a just universe, Justice would prevail. So we must play by a new set of rules. Our enemies operate outside the law, so too must we."
*F-8 Steals a racers car from the impound lot and uses it to cause as much destruction and chaos to the racers as possible under a false Racer handle, eventually overwhelming the FBI and forcing a full reinstatement of the RCPD*

 

[Thaluikhain]

I bet the people siding with him are the same kind of people who think a woman "deserves it" if she's wearing skimpy clothing outside. You know, with the whole victim blaming thing going on. Congratulations fuckwits, you guys are part of the problem.

Wouldn't be that surprised (especially given that his first victim was his GF).

But then there'd be some of the "look at me, I hate everyone" crowd who mistake being "edgy" with socially aware.

 

[Lightknight]

It occurs to me, that the gunman is quite clearly deranged and is co-opting a controversy as justification for murder.

Is the gunman quite clearly deranged? Is anyone who would murder automatically placed in the derangement category?

This is a truly tragic event. But I'm not so quick to dismiss evil as mere mental sickness when sometimes it can just be evil. I don't know the guy, so I don't know if it's someone who just wants to commit evil while seeing the world clearly. Committing suicide isn't a sign that you don't perceive the world properly. Sometimes it's a sign that you actually understand the world and the ramifications of your actions.

I hope, for humanity's sake, that this was an act of a deranged individual and not a cold calculated decision to exact vengeance alongside one's suicide. The latter is a scary notion indeed.

 

[Starbird]

Digusting and unjustified...

But isn't this an episode of The Shield? I mean...I remember exactly the same thing happening in that series.

I really like The Shield.

 

[mecegirl]

If this man hadn't been angered by police conduct, he likely would have been just as angered by something else in the future and committed murder for that.

But he didn't. He killed police officers because he wanted revenge for their killing of an unarmed man. That is what happened.

So you think that revenge murder is a completely rational reaction to a situation?

For christ's sake, I already said it isn't. Why are you so desperate to force that view point into my argument?

Because it rather debunks the idea that nothing else could have possibly caused him to commit murder. It's impossible to say this murder was 100% caused by police actions when the person we're talking about could have just as easily been driven to that point by getting cheated on, or getting fired from work, or getting harassed by somebody on the street, or anything that makes him that angry.

Oooohhhh ok. That makes perfect sense. The man posted a picture on social media ranting and raving about police actions, and you're response is. "....nah must have been about something else."

And of course James Earl Ray's killing of Martin Luther King had NOTHING to do with racism. That guy was just a deranged lunatic who would have killed anyone for the smallest provocation.

My point is that tragedies such as this are an inevitability in a society inherently unjust and uninterested in the equality of all of it's citizens. If you can't recognize that, then you need to self reflect on your privilege.

The point is that the police was the trigger and the killing is the bomb. If you light a fuse on fire, you can light it with matches, with a lighter, with a cigarette, with a flamethrower, it doesn't MATTER what you light it with, it will explode. It just so HAPPENED to be the police that lit this man up. It COULD have been anything.


Nobody is saying the police didn't trigger him, people are saying ANYTHING could have. That it just so happened to be that the police triggered him doesn't MEAN anything. That was just plain luck.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. I mean, I don't think we have found out why this guy killed his ex-girlfriend. Maybe it was because she tried to stop him from going after cops, or maybe it was because he was just itching to kill someone.

 

[tippy2k2]

Digusting and unjustified...

But isn't this an episode of The Shield? I mean...I remember exactly the same thing happening in that series.

I really like The Shield.

Now here's something we can all agree on! (Also, yes it did).

OT: Not much else to say besides...well...disgusting and unjustified pretty well nailed it. There are zero ways to justify this in any way, shape, or form.

Also, The Shield is awesome so double points to Starbird.