2012 cars still using hand-crank windows?

[Stealthygamer]

I like them for safety reasons. If I were to ever crash into water and the car was sinking, I'd be able to crank open the windows. If they were powered, the crash may have made them unable to be opened.

It makes far more sense to just open the door in that case. Just saying.

you can't open doors as the pressure on the outside would be stronger than the pressure on the inside

OT: I prefer hand-cranks for the same reason as Mr.Moores

 

[Craorach]

It's a car, it's a metal box with wheels to take you from A to B safely and as fast as the speed laws within your country allow. Power windows, along with all the other electrical gadgets put in modern cars, make them far less reliable and far harder to fix if there is an issue.

My wife's car has power windows.. and now one is broken and we have to get a new motor for it, and someone to fit it, rather than going down to a auto shop and buying a new cable and winding it on ourselves which we could do with a hand cranked window.

 

[Agayek]

If you are already in the water, the water pressure will tend to make that difficult, assuming you have an outwards opening door.

Opening the dooe before you hit might work, assuming it doesn't shut when you hit, but is difficult unless you are an action movie star.

The Mythbusters did a whole thing on this a few years ago. Once you're in the water, you've got two options. 1) Open the door before it's more than ~1/3 submerged or 2) wait until the cabin fills with water and open the door.

It's fully possible to open a car door after you land in the water. It's also possible to break the window, but that's a bit more difficult unless you have piece of metal handy.

 

[Athol]

It's a car, it's a metal box with wheels to take you from A to B safely and as fast as the speed laws within your country allow. Power windows, along with all the other electrical gadgets put in modern cars, make them far less reliable and far harder to fix if there is an issue.

My wife's car has power windows.. and now one is broken and we have to get a new motor for it, and someone to fit it, rather than going down to a auto shop and buying a new cable and winding it on ourselves which we could do with a hand cranked window.

And its because of stuff like that, that I like my van. There is none of that bs to breakdown on me. (I drive a '71 VW Series 2)

 

[Thaluikhain]

The Mythbusters did a whole thing on this a few years ago. Once you're in the water, you've got two options. 1) Open the door before it's more than ~1/3 submerged or 2) wait until the cabin fills with water and open the door.

It's fully possible to open a car door after you land in the water. It's also possible to break the window, but that's a bit more difficult unless you have piece of metal handy.

True, that's why I said "difficult" not "impossible".

In regards to Mythbusters, their claim that you should calmly wait till the car hits the bottom, and then open the door when the pressure has equalised was based on experiments they did in a 6ft swimming pool.

Top gear did the same thing, but with deeper water, and found that it didn't work, it took too long for the pressure to equalise.

So, the Mythbusters advicce should include the line "if you are sure you've gone into a 6ft swimming pool". Otherwise following their advice is likely to kill you...very fucking irresponsible of them.

 

[FernandoV]

The real question to me is, are you really so lazy as to make that a deal breaker on what is apparently an otherwise good car?

EDIT: Or is it more just a thing of curiosity?

Yea because you don't demand certain comforts in your life.

Edit: Oh god, look at all these people complaining about him liking power windows; yea, what an entitled prick, he is using money he earned and is demanding a feature to make his life more comfortable! No. If he wants power windows and is going to pay for them then it's his business. You're not communicating on these forums with smoke signals are you?

 

[WolfThomas]

Hand cranked windows are cheaper and lighter than electric ones, so some fuel-efficient economy cars still have them quite commonly.

 

[Agayek]

True, that's why I said "difficult" not "impossible".

In regards to Mythbusters, their claim that you should calmly wait till the car hits the bottom, and then open the door when the pressure has equalised was based on experiments they did in a 6ft swimming pool.

Top gear did the same thing, but with deeper water, and found that it didn't work, it took too long for the pressure to equalise.

So, the Mythbusters advicce should include the line "if you are sure you've gone into a 6ft swimming pool". Otherwise following their advice is likely to kill you...very fucking irresponsible of them.

I'll have to look up the data for that. It's definitely a valid concern if the water is >20 feet deep, but anything less than that seems rather unlikely. And then, that's less from lack of oxygen and more from nitrogen bubbles forming in your blood.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'll have to look up the data for that. It's definitely a valid concern if the water is >20 feet deep, but anything less than that seems rather unlikely. And then, that's less from lack of oxygen and more from nitrogen bubbles forming in your blood.

As I understand it, the pressure won't equalise until after you stop moving (that is, reach the bottom). But the car will start filling with water more or less immediately.

Now, if the car is full of water, but at less pressure than the water outside, it's still going to work against you when you try opening the doors, and you've got no air left inside.

 

[Agayek]

As I understand it, the pressure won't equalise until after you stop moving (that is, reach the bottom). But the car will start filling with water more or less immediately.

Now, if the car is full of water, but at less pressure than the water outside, it's still going to work against you when you try opening the doors, and you've got no air left inside.

There's one problem with that.

The pressure differential is entirely created by the oxygen. If the car is full of water, there is no pressure differential. What happens is that the air inside the car is less dense than the water outside it. Fluids flow from high density areas to low density areas and spread to be as close to the bottom as they can (due to gravity). The car is a pocket of low-density air in the middle of the high-density water. Thus, the water will try to flow into the car. This flow is what creates the pressure. The water is pushing against the car door trying to get in, while the air outside is pushing trying to get out.

Because the densities are so different, the water exerts significantly more force against the door, which is why it gets stuck. As soon as enough water has moved in to equalize the densities, the pressure difference is gone.

 

[ZeroMachine]

The real question to me is, are you really so lazy as to make that a deal breaker on what is apparently an otherwise good car?

EDIT: Or is it more just a thing of curiosity?

Yea because you don't demand certain comforts in your life.

Edit: Oh god, look at all these people complaining about him liking power windows; yea, what an entitled prick, he is using money he earned and is demanding a feature to make his life more comfortable! No. If he wants power windows and is going to pay for them then it's his business. You're not communicating on these forums with smoke signals are you?

Calm the fuck down.

If the lack of power windows was literally the ONLY reason he didn't buy an otherwise perfect car, that's just plain old silly.

And I never once called him a an entitled prick, nor did anyone else.

Hell, he even admits right here:

I admit there is an elemental of laziness

that there is an element of laziness to his reasoning. It seems that he took my post for what it is- a friendly jab. (At least, I'm hoping so, OP. I really did mean no harm.)

So get off your fucking high horse and go find another thread to annoy.

 

[Stryc9]

I hate power windows...

They are touchy, bitchy things that are useless if they loose power.
Give me manual windows any day.

This till the end. Having seen more than one car with electric windows have the motor go out leaving the window either stuck up or down and seeing cars where the motor is on the way out making the window sluggish and hard to roll up I'll take hand crank windows any day. Manual locks while you're at it thank you very much.

 

[Thaluikhain]

There's one problem with that.

The pressure differential is entirely created by the oxygen. If the car is full of water, there is no pressure differential. What happens is that the air inside the car is less dense than the water outside it. Fluids flow from high density areas to low density areas and spread to be as close to the bottom as they can (due to gravity). The car is a pocket of low-density air in the middle of the high-density water. Thus, the water will try to flow into the car. This flow is what creates the pressure. The water is pushing against the car door trying to get in, while the air outside is pushing trying to get out.

Because the densities are so different, the water exerts significantly more force against the door, which is why it gets stuck. As soon as enough water has moved in to equalize the densities, the pressure difference is gone.

Entirely?

As water pressure increases with depth, won't the water you've taken on on the way down be at less pressure than the water outside further down, at least temporarily? Assuming that wherever the water was coming in from was small enough not to keep equalisation slow, that is...if, say, a window was open, this wouldn't happen, of course.

 

[Agayek]

Entirely?

As water pressure increases with depth, won't the water you've taken on on the way down be at less pressure than the water outside further down, at least temporarily? Assuming that wherever the water was coming in from was small enough not to keep equalisation slow, that is...if, say, a window was open, this wouldn't happen, of course.

I think there's some confusion on what water pressure actually is. It's not a property of the water itself, but a function of the weight of the water against an object. Essentially, fluids expand to be as close to the ground as possible (due to gravity). When something gets in the way of that movement, it imparts a force on the object as it attempts to expand. This force is what we recognize as pressure.

If the amount of water is the same, the pressure will be identical, it doesn't matter where the water came from.

In this case, you're sinking deeper and deeper into the water. As you sink, the weight of all of the water above you is pushing on your car, trying to expand downwards. As the weight increases, so does the pressure, and so does the rate of water entering your car.

Equalization occurs when the force trying to push in (the water) is equivalent to the force trying to push out (the air). Since the volume of air in a car own cannot compete with the force generated by gallons upon gallons of water, the water forces its way inside. Once enough water is inside to be pushing out with the same force the water is pushing in, equilibrium is achieved. It doesn't matter if this happens at 2 ft or 70 ft.

Equivalence can be achieved while the car is still sinking. Theoretically anyway. I'll freely admit I haven't actually tested dropping a car into a lake and seeing what happened. It's possible that the body of the car has few/small enough ways for the water to get in that the water pressure outside increases faster than the pressure inside. It's highly unlikely, but it is possible.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

IIRC a lot of the newer base models of cars are starting to come with hand cranked windows these days because it saves on weight. 4 electronic winder motors are quite heavy so taking them out helps to improve fuel economy.

**EDIT**

BTW if you get stuck in a car that's sinking GTFO of there immediately. If the doors wont open then smash the window. Most cars need a key in the ignition to start, take the key out and hit the window in the corner as hard as you can with the pointy end and it will smash.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I think there's some confusion on what water pressure actually is. It's not a property of the water itself, but a function of the weight of the water against an object. Essentially, fluids expand to be as close to the ground as possible (due to gravity). When something gets in the way of that movement, it imparts a force on the object as it attempts to expand. This force is what we recognize as pressure.

If the amount of water is the same, the pressure will be identical, it doesn't matter where the water came from.

In this case, you're sinking deeper and deeper into the water. As you sink, the weight of all of the water above you is pushing on your car, trying to expand downwards. As the weight increases, so does the pressure, and so does the rate of water entering your car.

Equalization occurs when the force trying to push in (the water) is equivalent to the force trying to push out (the air). Since the volume of air in a car own cannot compete with the force generated by gallons upon gallons of water, the water forces its way inside. Once enough water is inside to be pushing out with the same force the water is pushing in, equilibrium is achieved. It doesn't matter if this happens at 2 ft or 70 ft.

Equivalence can be achieved while the car is still sinking. Theoretically anyway. I'll freely admit I haven't actually tested dropping a car into a lake and seeing what happened. It's possible that the body of the car has few/small enough ways for the water to get in that the water pressure outside increases faster than the pressure inside. It's highly unlikely, but it is possible.

Ah, ok, yeah, I've not had the opportunity to throw various different cars into lakes either.

 

[Techsmart07]

I think this has been stated already, but yeah, some cars still come with them installed.
It isn't a straight trade for worse, I personally prefer my hand-cranked windows ('96 jeep). My car is 15 years old and the windows work as well as the day the car was made. My father has a ford expedition, and the power windows lasted 3 years. Repairing it was expensive, and annoying. He didn't feel comfortable driving to work, because the window wouldn't close. He also had to wait for a week for them to repair it since they had to special order parts. From what I've heard, repairing manual windows is 10 times easier. I can't vouch for that, since they haven't broken yet.
Personally, I wouldn't think it's worth considering it a dealbreaker (if they weren't available), but then again, if you are spending a lot of money, I would say make sure to get what you want. I would rather spend $100 on what I want, than $80 on something that's close to what I want.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Electronics fail a lot easier than mechanical devices. Even though it may take a bit of elbow grease to raise/lower your windows, I think it will last longer than electric windows. Unless you are REALLY against non-electronic things, I don't think it'll be a problem.

Basically, this. There are two things that go out on a car before anything else: the first is the power windows, and the second is the power locks. Power locks come with backup manual locks as a matter of course, but power windows don't -- although, apparently it was an option back when power windows were first introduced. Having seen multiple cars with windows stuck halfway down, in a state where it rains all the freakin' time (Florida is /not/ the sunshine state; that should be Arizona.), I don't exactly complain when a car has manual windows. At least I know they aren't likely to break, and that if they somehow do, it's a repair I can cheaply and easily carry out myself, without having to involve a mechanic.

 

[Reishadowen]

I'm shopping around for a new car and I thought I had found it when I saw the Nissan Versa sedan. But then I failed to find anything about power windows and I always just took power windows as a given. Then I read about how even brand new cars made in the past 5 years are still using these and that power windows are not always standard. What is going on here? Does anyone actually drive a new car and still experiences a mini-work out whenever they need some air?

...You...actually found a car, made within the last five years, that DIDN'T come with power windows?

...

Where the hell were you shopping, the Former Soviet Union?

 

[Phlakes]

...Did you guys really turn a discussion about fucking power windows into an excuse to call people entitled pricks?

Why yes, I believe you did.

Spoiler

OT: My car right now has crank windows because my broke ass can't afford a better one, and I love every chance I can drive something with power windows (and a radio).