205: The Parables of Gaming

[oblivionenigma]

I think the concept is interesting and potentially entertaining at the same time. Similar things have been done numerous times. MANY games now often have some sort of message they want to get across. Look at Assassin's Creed. You kill a guy and they have a long discussion with you. The Suffering's enemies are all representations of the evil in the world. Silent Hill does similar tactics to represent a person's own demons. Metal Gear Solid seemed more like a lecture than a game sometimes (not saying I didn't like it!). Even games without an overt message is often insinuating one (Wolfenstein 3d told me Nazis were bad ) Every single one seems to have a message.
What religious people seem to do is either hate games, or try to totally subvert them to their goals. Apparently, in order for a game to teach a good religious moral, it has to be boring, overly rigid, or random popup quizzes or something. It'd be cool if they could maybe relax and try making something fun for a change... one of those games that says something without shoving it down your throat.

 

[dochmbi]

Christianity can best be communicated through games by engaging the player in the morals of the text.

Lol yeah that works. We can have a game where you go into a city and kill every man and rape every woman. Awesome!

 

[Edje]

Before all the flaming starts i just want to bring in a serious 2 cents.
oh and, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!! can we make this civil, i am really interested in this topic, and i don't want to wade through a "I hate religion" flame thread to have a discussion about a very relevant topic.

I'll say this right out, I am a catholic and a game design major, i have been thinking about this exact topic for a while. Right now many games are too much about the action as compared to the story, but as games evolve i see there being more room for serious story telling.

One thing i have been thinking about is taking the C.S. Lewis approach, sheer allegory, i.e. instead of doing a story about Christ or the apostles, create a game that's central theme is redemption and sacrifice, like having the PC's mentor/teacher sacrificing himself to save the PC and others, essentially passing the mantel of the martyr to the PC, from there the PC can deal with the fact that he should be dead but is alive, he can choose to follow in his masters footsteps or to disregard the sacrifice and live the same or worse than before, possibly believing his masters act was committed in vain. Not only does this break the classic Mother Terrisa or baby eater morality, it also conveys a powerful aspect of the christian faith without being overt or pushy (the whole Jesus saved you, what you do with that is your choice). and even if a person doesn't get the christian bit the can still really enjoy the story.

My point is that you can have a game with powerful and moving religious tones WITHOUT being politically polarizing, religiously pushy, OR even detracting from game play. Its just that no one has every really tired it, as far as i know, (till me I guess).

So in closing, can we keep this on topic, i know the escapists has a disproportional representation of the non-religious societal demographic, but don't let that allow this thread to devolve into a divisive flame war. Doesn't matter what you life creed is, atheist or theist, don't hate, just talk.

 

[zoozilla]

There's definitely going to be an increase in "Christian" games - there's definitely room for a purely Christian game development studio in the industry.

I think the effectiveness of a game's message is ultimately based on the story-telling. A game like Call of Duty 4 manages to relate to the player the horrors of war (or at least, this was part of it); this is done, however, not by crippling the gameplay to try and imprint an idea on the player every time he shoots an enemy. Instead, they used clever story-telling techniques (like using the first-person perspective to literally put the player in a character's shoes) to show the consequences of one's actions.

I think that's the way a game can stay fun and still provide some sort of ultimate message for the player.

 

[R.O.]

What is a "Christian" game? A game that supports the McCatholic or Prostitutestant brand? Because that is what religion is. A brand name, fast food spirituality that is quick and easy for most of you lames to consume. So good luck bringing that crap to games like people are going to swallow that load after they already escaped that crap to play games.

 

[oathblade]

Videogames can contribute to building up or tearing down morals, context is very important. But its best to separate them from any religion. The truth to some people is a myth to others.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KnIYRi3upbEC&dq=christ+conspiracy+greatest+story+ever+sold&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=b8Ipi3qGWb&sig=jdC2SYHwzm4T7fKWK3rGm2fjGuU&hl=en&ei=8dzTSpiJJYXwsgO46onECg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Can of worms is a great phrase for how unpleasant the topic can be.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

Before all the flaming starts i just want to bring in a serious 2 cents.
oh and, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!! can we make this civil, i am really interested in this topic, and i don't want to wade through a "I hate religion" flame thread to have a discussion about a very relevant topic.

I'll say this right out, I am a catholic and a game design major, i have been thinking about this exact topic for a while. Right now many games are too much about the action as compared to the story, but as games evolve i see there being more room for serious story telling.

One thing i have been thinking about is taking the C.S. Lewis approach, sheer allegory, i.e. instead of doing a story about Christ or the apostles, create a game that's central theme is redemption and sacrifice, like having the PC's mentor/teacher sacrificing himself to save the PC and others, essentially passing the mantel of the martyr to the PC, from there the PC can deal with the fact that he should be dead but is alive, he can choose to follow in his masters footsteps or to disregard the sacrifice and live the same or worse than before, possibly believing his masters act was committed in vain. Not only does this break the classic Mother Terrisa or baby eater morality, it also conveys a powerful aspect of the christian faith without being overt or pushy (the whole Jesus saved you, what you do with that is your choice). and even if a person doesn't get the christian bit the can still really enjoy the story.

My point is that you can have a game with powerful and moving religious tones WITHOUT being politically polarizing, religiously pushy, OR even detracting from game play. Its just that no one has every really tired it, as far as i know, (till me I guess).

So in closing, can we keep this on topic, i know the escapists has a disproportional representation of the non-religious societal demographic, but don't let that allow this thread to devolve into a divisive flame war. Doesn't matter what you life creed is, atheist or theist, don't hate, just talk.

You mean like how Aeris sacrifices herself so she can be one with the stream so later on in the game she can save people during the apocalypse? Granted she didn't kill herself but neither did Christ...some one else did it to them.

 

[surg3n]

The best religious character is that grizzly old Ray from the Call of Juarez games. The first game at least, the second game is a prequel. Anyway - Ray in CoJ is a preacher, a pretty bad ass preacher, he has a bible, and recites from it. It's pretty cold to recite a phrase from the bible with your gun in your other hand, then shoot someone in the face Samuel L Jackson style. Bad ass in a bad mood, what an excellent and unique character to play... he makes Max Pain look relatively effeminate in comparison.

Now rambling about the Call of Juarez games...and how awesome they are:
Both the CoJ games (don't count the third game) are great IMO, I know several critics would disagree, and I know that a lot of people will have dismissed those games because of review scores etc. But really, they have the best plot of any game I've ever played. Seriously, there's atonement, revenge, jealousy, deception, tragedy... everything that makes a good spaghetti western - the games have that 'Dollars' trilogy feel to them. I don't even notice the plot in most games, but something about Juarez gripped me - so well written and developed, I don't think the reviewers really appreciated the story behind it all. I never bother with cut scenes or cinematics - with the first 2 Juarez games I was glued to the fricken screen.
I would encourage anyone to chance a few bucks on these games, play the second game first, and then play the first game - that's what I did and it seemed to make a lot of sense, not sure if playing the first game first would have the same impact. They have excellent mechanics - although they might not be big free-roaming monsters like Red Dead Redemption, if you want a gritty plot, like spaghetti westerns, and like the idea of playing as a bible toting bad ass beligerant old bastard (who doesn't!), then spend the few bucks!. I don't know anyone else who has even given these games a chance, makes me sad.