223: M is for Massive

Serenegoose

Faerie girl in hiding
Mar 17, 2009
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Brendan Main said:
even definitions such as RPG have changed connotation as well. When we say "RPG elements", we often think of stat progressions and skill trees, but in another sense, TF2 is an RPG, at least so far as you're playing a role. There's something infectious about the character's personalities that colours the way I see the game, and how I play. I go Scout, and suddenly I'm "kind of a big deal." I go Heavy, and my I.Q. drops ten points.
The 'what makes an RPG' is something that's been fought out on videogame forums the world over, and I don't foresee any resolution any time ever. I get the same thing when I play TF2 though, at least for the scout. Normally, I play as the sniper, and though I very quickly get delusions of grandeur (the ability to send someone back to the spawn point with a single mouseclick, to the sound of their swearing over the microphone is intoxicating) but with the scout, I get hyperaggressive, and very childish. I'll giggle with glee as I bat a heavy to death, and trash talk wildly as I dance about dodging bullets. The scout makes me insufferable.

Back to that kind of point though, RPG seems to mean different things to different people. Under some definitions, Duke Nukem is an RPG. You play as the Duke, after all, and that's a role. Then some people confuse it by saying that, if we want to give the genre a concrete definition that isn't so vague as to be useless, what is 'essential' to the genre? Stats? Levels? The ability to wander wherever you want? Side Quests? Character Creation, as opposed to a fixed character? The JRPG/WRPG mix complicates things further, as JRPGs are undeniably RPGs but are typically considerably more 'linear' than WRPGs, which can themselves be argued, through not forcing a role on you, aren't RPGs at all, because you can arguably play as -yourself- and that most certainly isn't a role. Personally I've always been a little bit of a WRPG superioritist, but that's only because I like to fling spells as a dwarf, and the default 'RPG' character tends to be 'the sword guy' that is, human, mediocre but capable of producing magical effects, and using a two handed sword. See Geralt and cloud for examples of 'the sword guy' from W and JRPG.

Certainly, the debates that spring from the fact that our language is adapting or becoming inadequate are fascinating. Sorry for the brief threadjack to make that point.
 

Brendan Main

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Jul 17, 2009
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Serenegoose said:
the default 'RPG' character tends to be 'the sword guy' that is, human, mediocre but capable of producing magical effects, and using a two handed sword. See Geralt and cloud for examples of 'the sword guy' from W and JRPG.

The Sword Guy. I know that guy.

Probably had a bad childhood. Possibly an orphan. Possibly amnesiac, with vague memories of a bad childhood at an orphanage. Probably has spiky hair. Is there a correlation between spiky hair and orphans? Possibly.

Possibly knows a guy with a gun for an arm. Possibly has a sword that's a gun for a sword. Why does the gun-in-the-sword guy get to be The Sword Guy, but the gun-for-an-arm guy gets stuck being the Gun-For-An-Arm Guy? He should have replaced the arm with a sword. Then at least he'd have a chance.

Possibly plays a bizarre cross of football, water polo and quidditch. Possibly wearing lederhosen. Possibly a dream of a ghost's memory of a magical fluffy cloud.

Possibly ALL OF THE ABOVE.
 

incoherent

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May 7, 2007
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Brendan Main said:
You mention how MMO connotes RPG. I'm equally interested in how even definitions such as RPG have changed connotation as well. When we say "RPG elements", we often think of stat progressions and skill trees, but in another sense, TF2 is an RPG, at least so far as you're playing a role. There's something infectious about the character's personalities that colours the way I see the game, and how I play. I go Scout, and suddenly I'm "kind of a big deal." I go Heavy, and my I.Q. drops ten points.
Hm. Perhaps the answer to "what is Massive" is similar to the answer to "what is an RPG": there are "massive elements" just like there are "RPG elements". (I hate the term "massive elements" already and I just made it up.) Where leveling up and character statistics might be "RPG elements", "massive elements" might be a persistent, large world and a large number of players interacting. So yes, in some sense TF2 might be "massive", but maybe not in the same sense as MUDs or WoW. And you can have "massive elements" without being a MMOG, just like you can have "RPG elements" and yet not be an RPG.
 

Monsterfurby

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Mar 7, 2008
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And somewhere on the corner of MMORPG country, almost forgotten yet unfeasibly still in one piece, remains old, weathered Ultima Online, a game still played by a double-digit number of thousands, on hundreds of inofficial, player-run servers whose permanent population each rarely reaches "enough for a riot" and which, yet, feel strangely alive to those willing to invest the time.

Really, though, I wonder every time the point about the "olden days of MMORPGs" is brought up: what *did* UO do right that modern Mumorpugers seem to do wrong?