232: Game Development for the Damned and Delirious

[MGlBlaze]

I fear that this article has sparked my masochistic side. Must. Learn. C#.

Good luck with that. I'm currently using C# and XNA for my Games Design and Development university course. It's no joke; and I'm learning Java, C (C++ later) and a variety of other programing languages.

They're all much easier to use than machine code, though. My god, machine code is finickey.

That isn't to say that C isn't a PICKY BASTARD of a development language either.

Actually, I'd like to re-evaluate my "They're all much easier to use than machine code" statement. Still isn't pretty, though.

But anyway, if you want to learn C# with XNA (In case you didn't know, XNA's a plug-in used with Microsoft Visual Studio C# to make games for the PC, 360 and Zune), I have a book to recomend: Learning XNA 3.0, written by Aaron Reed. I don't use it terribly much, but it's a helpful thing to have.

Sorry if you know all this already, but I hope I was at least somewhat helpful.

Anyway;
This article is spot-on; game design/development isn't something to take lightly. Good thing that I KNOW that this is what I want to do; I'm in a university course for it after all. Plus, if it doesn't pan out, I'm still a computer programer at the end of it. Though at the same time since I'm in a university course for it, that automatically discludes me from the 'aspiting indie developer' described in this article right from the get-go.

>Game Maker

Well, there's your problem. You're expecting a community about a piece of game-making software, as opposed to a community about *making games*, to have people on it who'll act like human beings. Frankly, that's your own damn fault. Go somewhere where the barrier to entry is higher and you won't get either the newbie dross or the people who prey on them.

I mean, come on. It's Game Maker. It was ridiculed as crap five years ago, and for good reason. The people who stick with it are the people who aren't using real tools (and I'm sorry, but "real tools" is a subset that definitely excludes Game Maker).

I hope I'm not the only one to see the irony in what you said.

Congratulations, you have just epitomised the kinds of people that are described as being of no help in the article.

And yes, GameMaker is hardly 'A*' material for making games, put people have made some pretty decent stuff with it.

 

[boholikeu]

>Game Maker

Well, there's your problem. You're expecting a community about a piece of game-making software, as opposed to a community about *making games*, to have people on it who'll act like human beings. Frankly, that's your own damn fault. Go somewhere where the barrier to entry is higher and you won't get either the newbie dross or the people who prey on them.

I mean, come on. It's Game Maker. It was ridiculed as crap five years ago, and for good reason. The people who stick with it are the people who aren't using real tools (and I'm sorry, but "real tools" is a subset that definitely excludes Game Maker).

I hope I'm not the only one to see the irony in what you said.

Congratulations, you have just epitomised the kinds of people that are described as being of no help in the article.

And yes, GameMaker is hardly 'A*' material for making games, put people have made some pretty decent stuff with it.

I noticed it too. The irony was so good that I had trouble telling if he was being serious or not.

 

[Ed Ropple]

>Game Maker

Well, there's your problem. You're expecting a community about a piece of game-making software, as opposed to a community about *making games*, to have people on it who'll act like human beings. Frankly, that's your own damn fault. Go somewhere where the barrier to entry is higher and you won't get either the newbie dross or the people who prey on them.

I mean, come on. It's Game Maker. It was ridiculed as crap five years ago, and for good reason. The people who stick with it are the people who aren't using real tools (and I'm sorry, but "real tools" is a subset that definitely excludes Game Maker).

I hope I'm not the only one to see the irony in what you said.

Congratulations, you have just epitomised the kinds of people that are described as being of no help in the article.

And yes, GameMaker is hardly 'A*' material for making games, put people have made some pretty decent stuff with it.

I'm being entirely serious. You're going to get that kind of community around that kind of software because the barrier to entry is staggeringly low. The people who would have the ability to be positive forces for good in such a community eventually leave because there's little left for them there. But when there's a commitment of time and effort (not talent, it can all be learned!) on the scale necessary to master software development or other skills necessary to make a title sans training wheels, the dross does tend to go away. Go look at GameDev.Net, for example--there's very little of that kind of thing there, both because of community pressure and because the moderators will backhand anyone who acts like an ass just because they can. But few people do, because it's just not necessary there.

Now, like most places that cater to technical people, they don't take very kindly to questions posed without some kind of research or attempt at solving the problem on their own, but why should they? If it wasn't important enough that the questioner did, say, a basic Google search, it probably isn't important enough to give it a serious answer. (Learning to ask questions intelligently is a skill, and one that isn't hard to pick up.)

The Game Maker forums are filled with kids. Which is fine; there's nothing wrong with that. But don't make them out to be more than they are, expect them to be more than that, or try to extrapolate experiences there to indie game development in general. All I'm saying is that if you raise your game and bring said raised game somewhere a little more matured, and you will find far better results.

 

[BonerMacTittyPants]

The overall impression of the indie community doesn't sound anything different than most forums out there.

 

[Mordwyl]

Frankly I made better games programming them from scratch than with a program such as this one. It takes much more work as you have to take care of all the design and mechanics yourself but you know your game inside out and will likely be bug free.

 

[Donrad]

wow i didnt know it was so tough for all of those indie designers.
kudos for those who band together some people to help, but i guess one loan designer doesnt make a huge difference

 

[Scrythe]

I remember back when indie game development was for the strictly devoted and dedicated few. Now because every community college has a "game design" program and advertises between Jerry Springer The Peoples Court, every suburban dipshit thinks he's a few keystrokes away from being the next Braid or Audiosurf.

What used to be a barely-tapped market is now undergone the same faggotry and egotistical drama you see in art communities (DeviantTART), web design (EVERYTHING MUST BE HELVETICA) and the gaming community (I don't have to list examples here).

It's fucking disgusting to see what even game DESIGN has become. But whatever, I guess I'm going to have to suck someone's dick to see if I can get in on a decent game design company now. Fuckers.

 

[thom_cat_]

So yeah... I've spent over 200 hours just making levels for Source engine games...
yes, you be impressed.

And I did this by asking nice people for help and asking the right questions... looking elsewhere on the internet.

but yeah, I can't say that when a new guy asks me for help and he doesn't even know how to draw a block in Hammer I kinda try to get him to look at the INTERNET AND STOP ASKING ME THE EASIEST THING IN THE ENTIRE BOOK!

 

[Lucifron]

@Scrythe:

Yes. We are all very shocked indeed due to this development. After the break; tomorrow the sun is expected to rise again, and several fish are going to be eaten by sharks. More on that later.

 

[theultimateend]

2. Most people have no original ideas.

All people have no original ideas. It is a chicken and the egg thing with the added bonus of unlike the chicken and the egg it has no actual simple explanation.

All ideas are rehashes of previous ideas. The original ones are simply old ideas masked properly enough that people don't notice it is the exact idea.

Painting a rose gold does not change the fact that under the gold is the exact same rose that grows every year. That is what people do. They simply put a new coat over an old rose.

Now. I know someone will get defensive about this because they confuse this point with negativity.

There is nothing bad at all about this. It is just how it is.

Well that was fun. Off to bed.

 

[akmarksman]

So you can get sued by some UBERdouche when your game has the letters

E

D

G

E
in them and you'll get sued? Nah..not for me.

 

[Glic2003]

I've never understood why people are always dissing Game Maker. I assume people just look at the games that were made with it and see that they're mostly crap, so they assume the tool is crap...when actually it was the game creators that were crap.

I mean Derek Yu is a fucking game design genius, and Game Maker was apparently good enough for him to use. I would rate his Spelunky in the top 10 best games I've played, ever.

 

[Ericb]

"theultimateend" said:
All ideas are rehashes of previous ideas. The original ones are simply old ideas masked properly enough that people don't notice it is the exact idea.

Painting a rose gold does not change the fact that under the gold is the exact same rose that grows every year. That is what people do. They simply put a new coat over an old rose.

--//--


Simple rehashing of old ideas is a extreme oversimplification of what creativity is.

No current ideas are purely original ones, in the sense of creating something out of thin air. But it is a fact that the human psyche recreates and transforms notions it acquires from the world around it.

We started this process by watching nature and have been going forward from that ever since.

If everything were a simple gold coating over the same old rose, one would never be able to tell apart what is considered true classic works of every art and design ever produced in human history.

True creativity takes true work.

I mean Derek Yu is a fucking game design genius, and Game Maker was apparently good enough for him to use. I would rate his Spelunky in the top 10 best games I've played, ever.

What games did he produce in Game Maker? I'm curious about that one.

 

[Goremocker]

Well that made me sad...Mostly because you said that there are coders who aren't even finished with elementary school! WTF! I can't even code. Every time I try and learn I either have to shell out cash or the tutorials won't install...Damn it...And now because of this article I feel even less inclined to try and learn.

 

[surg3n]

There are places where developers can go, get ideas, discuss design, get tips, follow tutorials. I'm a member of a game dev forum, in fact it might be the biggest game dev forum for all ages that there is. It's well moderated, no flame wars or trolling allowed. I have always been a programmer, since before I could read and write properly... but I never achieved very much until I joined this forum... http://forum.thegamecreators.com/

Since then, I've made a dozen PC games, some solo projects, some as coder in a small team. To tackle a solo game project, you have to be confident in your abilities to do everything, or at least most things. I would say that people shouldn't worry about music, because muso's tend to be quite happy to provide videogame music - it gets their work out there to a decent sized audience - it shouldn't cost anything as long as your game is free. Seriously, the previous game I made is a remake of Bruce Lee, and I found someone who had done a great redo of the original soundtrack, ideal - contacted him and he spent the next month making it perfect, for free. Sound effects are usually a case of sourcing, it's all out there - you just have to spend the time finding good sound effects, or pass that work onto someone else - it's not rocket surgery. Graphics can be stylised - but again, a lot of people would love to make graphics for a game, design characters, and it's not a matter of making money (at least not for everyone).

Now, for example, the latest package they have is AGK, App Game Kit - which is a BASIC programming language, very easy to learn and use, it has Box2D built in (physics engine used in Angry Birds) - and it's cross platform. With that, you can program in Basic and compile onto your iPad, iPod, iPhone, Android tablet, Bada.... the list goes on. Typically cross platform development is time consuming and complex, AGK kicks that notion in the teeth. They have My Doddle Game as well, people can write whole games in an afternoon if they want - they have 6 year olds making games in that thing. There really are options for every skill level, there is no excuse for procrastination.

As much as I agree with the reality of this article, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be like that. It takes determination to finish a game, because mostly, game development gets boring when trying to finish a game, it's a real skill to navigate the pitfalls and get a project finished. Even though I've done alright, I've still only completed about 10% of the projects I've started - it's all a learning experience, until you find a project that you really want to complete. The biggest failure would be failure to try.