While testing my modern UR Past in flames/Pyromancer ascension storm deck for the upcoming season.Encaen said:Finer Points: Part One
Let's dive into the Stack.
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Stack related rules aren't something that comes up very often unless you're doing something silly like playing with storm decks, getting into counterspell wars, multiplayer or T1 matches so not knowing the nitty gritty rules won't affect play all that much.Crimson_Dragoon said:Huh, I've been playing the game off and on for years and have never heard of most of this (though I did know about the whole "last spell played goes first" thing). Either these are newer rules or I just never dove into the nitty gritty details enough.
don't forget the ever silly Oblivion Ring stack abuse trick where you destroy the O-ring before the exile trigger resolves in order to exile the permanent forever.TheGuy(wantstobe) said:Stack related rules aren't something that comes up very often unless you're doing something silly like playing with storm decks, getting into counterspell wars, multiplayer or T1 matches so not knowing the nitty gritty rules won't affect play all that much.Crimson_Dragoon said:Huh, I've been playing the game off and on for years and have never heard of most of this (though I did know about the whole "last spell played goes first" thing). Either these are newer rules or I just never dove into the nitty gritty details enough.
That actually just came up around the office last week featuring Oblivion Ring [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222007]. Same principle, only Fiend Hunter seems like he'd be a little easier to get rid of.ZeZZZZevy said:don't forget the ever silly Oblivion Ring stack abuse trick where you destroy the O-ring before the exile trigger resolves in order to exile the permanent forever.
It took me a while to really understand how that worked, since it's one of the more complicated stack abuses you can do in the game.
And combat damage. Though that's more for people who've played before M10 and just recently came back.Pyrignis said:A little thing I would like to add that may be nice for players hearing for the first time about the stack.
Abilities that have "At the beginning of the/your upkeep" go off at he same time. The active player decides in what order they enter they stack. Even abilities of which the source is not his (allies or enemies).
The same applies for "At the beginning of the end step".
Also, mana and land don't enter the stack.
My personal favorite for breaking the stack is Time Stop, but to each their own.Encaen said:That actually just came up around the office last week featuring Oblivion Ring [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222007]. Same principle, only Fiend Hunter seems like he'd be a little easier to get rid of.ZeZZZZevy said:don't forget the ever silly Oblivion Ring stack abuse trick where you destroy the O-ring before the exile trigger resolves in order to exile the permanent forever.
It took me a while to really understand how that worked, since it's one of the more complicated stack abuses you can do in the game.
Along the same lines, shenanigans are plentiful with Stifle [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=228118], perhaps), it remains on the battlefield indefinitely. It continues to have haste.")
It's actually relatively simple, if you decide to make boxes for everything(MTGO style). Any spell that is in the process of being cast goes onto the stack(normally on the bottom of the stack, but sometimes not). The way I generally play the stack is with either spells(instances, sorceries and permanents as they're being cast), or with note card copies of their abilities(Whever X happens do Y). Make an actual stack of spells and abilities.Drunkbot said:It would be nice to get more people to understand the difference between a permanent and spells on the stack and how those two things are different in regards to keyword abilities that affect permanents. Shroud, hexproof, and protection from blue are not valid foils against counterspells.
I've taken the liberty of bolding the part that is FAAAAAAALSE. If multiple abilities would trigger at the same time they go on the stack in APNAP order that is the Active Players abilities go on the stack first and they may order them however they like then the Nonactive Players abilities go on the stack in turn order and they order them as they like.Pyrignis said:A little thing I would like to add that may be nice for players hearing for the first time about the stack.
Abilities that have "At the beginning of the/your upkeep" go off at he same time. The active player decides in what order they enter they stack. Even abilities of which the source is not his (allies or enemies).
The same applies for "At the beginning of the end step".
Also, mana and land don't enter the stack.
Hexproof is a recurring series about nothing but MTG. It kind of got mentioned the first time. Every other time, just look for the magic card printed right at the beginning.5ilver said:Could you kindly mention the article/discussion is related to MTG or some other similar card game at the start? I'd rather not have to slog through 2-3 paragraphs to finally discover I have no interest in the subject.
PS: Preferably in giant red flaming letters.
That would probably work with Oblivion Ring and Fiend Hunter in standard, you just have to change up how to get rid of the ring and hunter.Jhereg42 said:One of my favorite stack quagmires comes from the Nightmares from the Torment set. Because of the sacrifice rules and the way the stack worked, you could effectively use them to remove lands and creatures, even the life of other players from the game in a constant rez circle. From the rules:
One combo in Waking Nightmares is very tricky. With some help from the Odyssey set's Malevolent Awakening, your Nightmares can take things away for good.
How? When you play a Nightmare, such as Faceless Butcher, it comes into play ability goes on the stack. In response, you sacrifice the Butcher to play Malevolent Awakening's ability. Then the Butcher's leaves-play ability resolves first, but the Butcher hasn't removed a creature from the game yet. The leaves-play effect does nothing. So the comes-into-play effect removes a creature from the game that can never be brought back!
Use Malevolent Awakening to bring back a previously sacrificed nightmare and boom, keep the chain going.