I've played HL2 once and never need to see it again (the original Half-Life was much more impressive upon release than its sequel if you ask me). Compared to that I've played through various versions of Bloodlines five times (Toreador, Nosferatu, Tremere and twice as a Malkavian).
I didn't know much about VtM beforehand but this game got me digging around in that world and eventually got me playing the pen and paper rpg.
Though I wish the Tremere had that blood shield outside the video game as well...
Obsidian riiight. What have they done so far?
Kotor2 was just unfinished and while MotB generally considered to be pretty decent storywise and c&c, it is also an expansion to the utterly craptastic NWN2.
By that rational Justin Timberlake is better than most of The Beatles or even Beethoven.
Fail dude.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but CCP the developers of EVE are actively working on a World of Darkness MMO. World of Darkness is the pen/paper RPG that V:tM comes from.
So HOPEFULLY they'll see what worked in V:tM and incorporate it into their MMO. Personally I cannot wait.
Maybe clarify something for me here, Deadie. When was Beethover ever a video game developing business? In case you haven't noticed we are talking about game companies and not individual people. Most intelligent people can tell the difference between a business and an individual. If you can't then you may need some remedial education.
Maybe clarify something for me here, Deadie. When was Beethover ever a video game developing business? In case you haven't noticed we are talking about game companies and not individual people. Most intelligent people can tell the difference between a business and an individual. If you can't then you may need some remedial education.
Maybe if you saw my "by that rational" aspect to see I was not literally comparing a composer to a video game developer.
Game companies come and go, they do amazing work in their time. One day when Obs dies like it inevitably will (few companies can stay open FOREVER), who will be remembered more fondly? I'll take a firm bet that these Vampire:the Masquerade fans will be here long after we've all forgotten what a disappointment all of Obs games are.
Also, comparing an up and coming RPG to one that was developed long ago will never be fair considering the advances in developing technology.
Maybe if you did some logical thinking instead of robotic thinking, you'd come to a more understandable and contextual conclusion.
I was really disappointed when i played Bloodlines. I was hoping for it to be more like the first Vampire game: masquerade, which is more of a tactical RPG and has a much better story
After all the fan-made patches i one day actually played out this game as a Malkavian (recommended, best dialog options EVER) about a year or 2 after its release. I wont say it was bad, but it still left me thinking "that's it?". It just could have been better.
I was laughing so hard at that encounter, oh man! The one with the TV newscaster was wonderful to - I loved how subtle (or not so subtle) things would change as a Malkavian to reflect the bit where you're batshit insane.
Hello? The dark father is returning? BLA BLA BLA BLA? BLA BLA! BLABLABLA!
I found the voices that Malcavians hear to top everything else, ofcourse seeing and hearing different things than other clans was awesome too, but nothing beats a child's whispering voice in your head when you're in the middle of a dialogue
I've got the game running on both 64 bit XP and Windows 7. I remember having difficuilty getting it to run at first though... unfortunately I can't remember what I did. I looked at the exe and I don't have any compatibility options enabled.
Maybe it was the unofficial patch that made it possible.
Hi, as the creator of the Bloodlines unofficial patch I want to clear up a thing which seems not to be known much. The unofficial patch comes in two flavours, the default "basic" version which only fixes bugs and restores content not affecting the gameplay and the advanced "plus" version which tweaks the game a bit and restores much more unfinished stuff like new disciplines, weapons, items and sequences. Both versions include fixed dlls to run the game with more memory or on Windows Vista and Windows 7.
You know I did notice that, when I started playing the game where was a bit that I could never get past // It was a 'boss' fight it you could call it that // After a few days I gave up and I have never gone back to it but recently I was told that yea, that boss was bugged but they fixed it in a patch // So I am tempted to go reinstall it, update it and then enjoy it as best I can
I love this game also, i actualy let someone borrow it then they shipped out to iraq and i think they took it with them Damn it. Ive been looking for a new copy. Never even got to finish the game as the crazy vampires or nosferatu!
I loved this game so much I completed it 4 times over. I don't think I even downloaded any patches at the time as far as I remember, so that's saying something about my stubbornness to stick through with what I considered a great game dispite any flaws it might have had.
I've got the game running on both 64 bit XP and Windows 7. I remember having difficuilty getting it to run at first though... unfortunately I can't remember what I did. I looked at the exe and I don't have any compatibility options enabled.
Maybe it was the unofficial patch that made it possible.
Black Isle, Troika and Obsidian have always suffered from the same problem. The creators are amazing visionaries and masterful storytellers, there's no doubting that. Their problem is also that they are amazing visionaries that are very farsighted. They simply can't see the problems that are close to them and which stops them from realizing all their visions. Bloodlines was in development for almost 4 years and even with almost half the planned content cut out (including the multiplayer mode) the game was a mess. However, it only follows suit with Troikas other games, Arcanum was also a wonderful, wonderful game but horribly bugged and with areas that so obviously had so much planned for them but so little done with them. Obsidian went on to make the same mistakes for Neverwinter Nights 2 (many, many horrid bugs in there) and Knights of the Old Republic 2 (which was basically Bloodlines all over again but in Star Wars).
I like Bloodlines. I like Arcanum. But there simply is no excuse for what Troika did. Other developers get flamed all the way into the lowest levels of hell for releasing unfinished games no matter how much potential they have. Troika, I am sad to say, tops the list when it comes to that offense. What Troika desperately would have needed (and what might have saved them as a studio) was someone who could pull the break when the designers became to enthusiastic with envisioning features.
Actually, its not a matter of the developer being too far sighted. Its more a matter of publishers interfering directly in development, and forcing the developers to work to their timetable - and this has only got worse in recent times, I'd like to add. Wondering why innovation is currently lacking in new titles? Theres your answer. It used to be bad, but recently Publishers have got hideously controlling - EA and Activision spring to mind here, particularly with recent debacles.
Also, are aware that they were effectively bankrupted anyway? And the first two patches were made by staff who were already laid off, and were doing it unpaid? It wouldn't have saved them. The amount a developer gets from the publisher is minute compared to the sales from the actual game.
Personally? I'm blaming a combination of not enough time being given - this is obvious as soon as you reach later parts of the game, when it seems rushed. The first half seems so much more indepth - and overly controlling other companies involved in the development. Along with bad timing, and Valve preferring HL2 to be the first to use the Source engine over bloodlines.
That said, Troika could have done with either a complete (not alpha build) of an engine, along with better management of the project to actually force them to progress, and iron out so many bugs. (Mm, imagine it on the Unreal3 engine... Mmmmmmm....) Its still a flawed gem, and I'll always love it for that reason alone. Its certainly an influence on the work I'm doing currently. Minus the bugs, and horrendous combat mechanics, of course.
(In regards to the patches, the two different sides are very.. ermm.. dodgey, to say the least. Although the "True" patch is good if you just want something thats balanced, the "mod" version adds so much more cut content. But that version also customises stuff so that certain events happen, and screw it up a bit more - for instance, the ghost in the mansion sequence has been heavily altered so he appears more, and it isn't anywhere near as creepy. [God I hated that mission.... Scared the crap outta me])
TheBlackKnight said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
You definitely want to check out the Companion Mod though
ah yeah, the companion mod; That only actually broke the thin blood quest in Santa Monica for me I wouldn't get that picture and the car keys anymore. Nice idea though....lots of potential to break the game and be a total selfish snobbish Ventrue.
I'm not in league with OUR mortal enemy!
Hardly Reality said:
Or Bethesda, or even Bioware. Hell, just somebody please make something like Bloodlines again. Seriously.
It's a game I still love despite the number of times the bugs have screwed me about, which says a lot for it.
It's also proof that Activision was evil even back then.
Honestly, I would prefer Obsidian making one. I don't like the "type" of RPG Bethesda is making and I don't think Bioware is able to make a worthy successor to Bloodlines. Not that Bioware is not talented enough, but they tend to make the "You are the hero! Go and save X" and Bloodlines wasn't that type of game and I think that is the reason it was so good.
Particularly in the later stages, it gets very interesting - particularly if you happen to have good speaker/headphones, particularly during conversations. Hard to hear it, but listen carefully. Its brilliantly done, and I only just spotted it on the last playthrough. Creepy, but also enlightening if you hear some of the lines. Some are rather.. oddball.
Sorry, but commercial success is not necessarily a valid measure of a game's quality, particulary when you are citing a game that 1)had a serious marketing campaign, 2)is a sequel to an incredibly successful game, and 3)is based on one of the most popular IPs of all time. A lot of people would have bought KotOR 2 regardless of how good or bad it was simply because it's Star Wars, or because they liked KotOR 1, or both (I know I did). KotOR 2 could have been utter crap and it still would have outsold something like VtM:B or Arcanum. No, the copies sold metric means absolutely nothing here.
This is a discussion about how good each studio is at making games, not about how much money they can scam from customers. Of course this is a matter of opinion which will vary widely, but it must be discussed and debated on the merits and flaws of each of the games, not factors which may or may not have anything to do with the games themselves.
Sorry, but commercial success is not necessarily a valid measure of a game's quality, particulary when you are citing a game that 1)had a serious marketing campaign, 2)is a sequel to an incredibly successful game, and 3)is based on one of the most popular IPs of all time. A lot of people would have bought KotOR 2 regardless of how good or bad it was simply because it's Star Wars, or because they liked KotOR 1, or both (I know I did). KotOR 2 could have been utter crap and it still would have outsold something like VtM:B or Arcanum. No, the copies sold metric means absolutely nothing here.
This is a discussion about how good each studio is at making games, not about how much money they can scam from customers. Of course this is a matter of opinion which will vary widely, but it must be discussed and debated on the merits and flaws of each of the games, not factors which may or may not have anything to do with the games themselves.
I'll jump in here, if you don't mind. Sales? Thats not an issue as such, thats more down to marketing and the IP - nothing that a developer can do about that really.
In terms of artwork and innovation? Troika far outstrips that of Obsidian. Did it lead to Troika's downfall, when they went too far with risking a lot with too much innovation? Perhaps, but I'd rather play something that was unique, that pulled me in. Troika's stuff, for all their fallacies, have always managed that. Obsidians stuff, not so much. For me, although its now far underground, Troika is the better studio for the simple reason that it focused more on the innovation end of the specturm than Obsidian does - and in the world of gaming, surely thats what matters, not the same old crap regurgitated time and time again?
I love this game so much.
I wish they'd release other troika games on steam, I own a hard copy of bloodlines but I'd like to support the makers.
R.I.P Troika
I am not saying that the publishers didn't have anything to do with it, they control the money after all. I realize my post seems to put most of the blame on Troika and not Activision and it is actually intended. Troika made a lot of mistakes with Bloodlines, the kind of mistakes that one of the best and most experienced developing houses around shouldn't do. The Source-engine problem is just one part of the problem.
After four years of development with a development team as large as Troikas, you should be able to release a finished and stable game. STALKER is a similar title, being in development for five years and yet being released in a horrid state. The problem is that some developers could probably be developing their games forever and ever to make it into that perfect masterpiece they always dreamed off...
... And we all know that won't happen. Troika always tried to make the absolute best games they could, but I personally believe they would have been far better off if they had realized the limitations they were working under.
I love this game, I'm so glad that someone gave it the justice it deserved. Hopefully more people will know about this game now and be able to expiriance it.
But that version also customises stuff so that certain events happen, and screw it up a bit more - for instance, the ghost in the mansion sequence has been heavily altered so he appears more, and it isn't anywhere near as creepy.
Sorry, but that is not true. I prolonged the appearance of the male ghost only by seconds because most people like myself never saw him in the first place. I also restored a few appearances of the female ghost that were not visible because of animation errors.
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