249: Interviews With the Fandom

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

A-ha! I knew Escapist News Articles had some kind of connection to common forum topics and this proves it.

I'll say what I usually say for those: Fanfiction gets a bad rap for the massive amount of semiliterate slash/lemons/ewwwwww perhaps intentionally churned out by the majority. ffnet is the single largest public forum and yet the gems I found after a bit of searching were enough to get me started too. If you wanted better quality standards you can go to a more specifically-focused site (not a great example but Castlevania Dungeon had some semi-interesting stuff, including a few amateur graphic novels).

As our collective skills improved I slowly realized that several members of my coauthor circle always did better when they were creating their own characters and settings from a barebones skeleton, if anything at all. A pity there isn't a popular site for that. As for myself, ffnet taught me that I am an ego-tripper at heart, for any story that had recieved fewer reviews than it had chapters I would eventually lose interest in and never finish. What's the point if no one's going to read it?

Speaking of ego-tripping, my account there is 'Maximus1' under my old avatar. Feel free to stop on by. Or not.

 

[The Random One]

I particularly don't care for fanfic, but if the view this article offers is accurate, I should never care. It says that bad fanfic isn't really bad per se because some people enjoy it. Yeah, plenty of people enjoy things that are so bad it's good - unless it's done deliberately, it's not a good thing, it's a massive mockery. It says that fanfic writers say people who don't get fanfic are just people for whom it isn't made for; while it's true that people on the internet love going to sites dedicated to things they hate and announcing they hate the thing the site is dedicated to, that doesn't mean the hated thing has any qualities, or that they should just focus on their small group. And the policy of making something more inclusive has not worked very well for webcomics, which anyone can created as long as they have a working hand or foot and are widely considered to be a waste of time except for a few awesome cases.

I have read a few fanfics, and other than the well-publicized car crashes like My Immortal and 'and then John was a zombie', my main problem with them is that the writers don't seem to love the media. Written media, I mean. They are writing an alternate continuity for a cartoon, or a comic book, or a game, and they can only do it in written media, so they try to comform to it but fail it, there's a certain 'I wish I could make a movie/comic/game based on this story, but I can't, so here's some lame plaintext instead'. Maybe it's because I want to be a writer and I'm the kind of guy who loves the Pratchett/Adams style of writing, in which you take the disadvantadges of the medium and turn them into advantadges. For instance, descriptive paragraphs are usually the dullest parts of a novel, but in a Pratchett novel there's sure to be a pun or other wordplay in it to make them some of the most memorable part of the whole thing. It's what jumps at my eyes; I endeavour to be not some Dan Brown or J. K. Rowling, but an artist whose work is so fit to its media that adaption means reimagining, not just taking the thing and using it as a script.

I don't write fanfic because when I was six I created a fantasy world for myself based on TV characters and I guess that went on to steal all my drive to work on media I don't create entirely. Whoops.

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know when or why "angst" became a negative thing. It seems to me that when the word "angst" is used, its always as a negative connotation of it being whiney or "pussy" or something, when really, its just emotion, that thing we're all SUPPOSED to have.

It became a negative thing around the time people realized their stories sucked because they couldn't add conflict, but weren't good enough to come up with believable conflict. So they thought that they could get around that by making their characters sad. Angst itself isn't a bad thing, but the problem is that in several stories (and I'm not referring uniquely to fanfiction here) once you take the angst out there's nothing to hold the character any more, the angst is there not as part of one's personality but instead of it. It does give a bad name to people who can write dark stories well, but them's the breaks.

It's kind of like any video game with a good story has to have a plot twist in it somewhere, because plot twists make a story look more interesting than it actually is.

 

[leviathanmisha]

I am a person that has been interested in trying his hand in fan fiction writing for...well, years. My only problem is that I tend to be too lazy for my own good and do not feel like putting things on "paper" (even though I enjoy writing.....kind of a clash of interests, isn't it?).

However, I know little of the "fanfic scene". So what I would like to ask is....is FanFiction.net the best place to start for a young budding fanfic writer? Or are there websites that come more highly recommended?

I'm going to be honest, there is really no where else but fanfiction.net, mediaminer is there, but no one really goes there anymore...so, yeah...I've been on ff.net for over 4 years now and I do admit to dabbling over at mediaminer occasionally (only cause it isn't blocked at school), but ff.net is the only real place out there...oh, there's also livejournal, but I could never figure it out... =P

 

[Eternal Entity]

As someone who regularly reads fanfiction, has written several, and put few up on The Pit of Voles, I wholeheartedly agree with this article and some of the comments posted. For instance, for all of my work put up on The Pit, my favorite/subscribe to review ratio is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND to one. Speaking as an author who wants feedback, it's nigh impossible for me to continue writing a fic merely because I'm not getting any and not finding out what I'm doing wrong.

Furthermore, there are other websites out there for people to go to if you want your stuff reviewed. I myself go to one website that shall not be mentioned, moreso because of the brutal honesty than anything else. Every user there shares the same tastes as the others, so it's far easier to find what you like there, and it's also far easier to get reviews as well.

The Random One hit the nail on the head with the angst issue. Angst is perfectly fine, when it's received in small doses and isn't a cornerstone of your story. I'd rather not read a 5000 word chapter about how Character A cried for eight months over Character B's death and then killed himself.

Lastly, as a writer who considers himself 'decent' at best, I'm appalled at the vast majority of what is up on The Pit. It's stuff like My Immortal that give fanfiction a bad rap, and places like The Pit that earn that and more. I can guarantee you that unless you're using an add-on like FFNE (rendered obsolete by constant overhauls on The Pit and the new Firefox update...) that for every decent to good fic you find, there will be a hundred bad to horrible ones. And, while that's an abysmal ratio, it is true, and I can guarantee you that of those 100 fics, 75% will be slash.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

My name is The Rogue Wolf, and I have a confession to make. I'm a fanfiction writer. I wouldn't say I'm ashamed of it, though- my best work [http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4574349/1/Cradle_of_Fear] actually got someone to go out and buy the game that influenced it.

I wrote plenty of terrible fanfics, yes. I could build an army from my Gary Stus and conquer the world. But I never bothered publishing them anywhere, because I KNEW they were bad. They were practice- I mean, after all, even Hank Aaron struck out now and then when he was starting out. So why do I- someone with two novels that are candidates for publication in the works- write fanfics? Because it's a fun writing exercise for me. "What ifs" are one of my favorite mental exercises, and while I tend to shy away from outright hijacking major characters, I have a lot of fun exploring someone else's world, and minor characters that struck a chord with me, and building ideas from them.

One of these days I'm going to finish that Silent-Hill-themed World of Warcraft story. Oh, you laugh now, but you wait.

 

[Machelix4314]

I mostly dabble in anime. Ranma 1/2 is my main fandom. It was the second anime I ever watched religiously. I have some works in Final Fantasy VIII, Suikoden V, Kingdom Hearts, and a bit of crossover work. And those are just the ones I write in. I run a forum for the Rosario + Vampire fandom and the Haruhi Suzumiya fandom as well. If you have a fanfic in either of those categories, I'd be happy to review it. And I can't even begin to tell you how many different categories I actually read in. Believe me when I say I've been around the block.

My profile on fanfiction.net is under the same name as my account here so feel free to check it out.

From your icon, I take it that you're a Super Smash Brothers fan as well?

If such is the case (and I apologize if I sound pushy with this), I have a story or two that I'd like you to critique. They're based respectively on Kingdom Hearts and SSBB. Admittedly they aren't finished yet, but I would enjoy at least one critique even one of them.

They're up on my Deviantart account, PumpkinApprentice431.

 

[Redd the Sock]

I was once really into fanfiction. Now I can't go near it without getting a mild rash.

I always loved the idea behind it: an evergrowing, and infinate library of stories that can go anywhere and do anything. What really wasn't to like? Some made great continuations, others, nice alternate universes, and others nice introspection pieces. So what happened to me?

I was reading some commentary about fanfiction (around the time the LOTR movies first were coming out) and I read an interesting comment. To paraphrase: Tolken crafted a vast world with deep histories and numerous characters with plenty of room for intersting alternate adventures, side sotires, or expasions of minor elements or appendicies. Surely these writers can come up with better ideas than Gimli and Legolas having sex or Aragorn molesting the Hobbits to write about.

A bit of an exageration, but it did start me on the path of noticing what was mentioned in the article: authors were far FAR more interested in quickly churning out something that suits their fanboyish appitites and those of like minded people than they were of trying to make something worth reading to anyone else. Stories that existes soley to pair characters together, or have character A tell of character B, felt just as self gratifying as anything pornographic. Plot bunnies made things worse, because like their namesake, they multiply beyond any level of sense. It was such that even when I found something worth reading, odds were the author would lose interest in a month when a new idea came along.

But what really killed me by the end was the attitude of the writers themselves. Granted this was 2003 , so it's a dated judgement that may not be applicable today, but many of the authors I was encountering were some of the most undeservingly narsicistic people I could ever encounter. I never had much against people that wrote to their specific fandom without concern for outside opinions, but I did leave honest commentary when asked, only to be chastised for not praising the author totally. There's review begging, and holding out chapters until you get a certain level of attention which is childish. At worst, I've seen some authors blame any criticism, and even computer problems and crashed websties on a "terrorist" internet clique out to get them for not writing their prefered pairing (The infamous Knights of the True Fiance in Ranma 1/2 fandom which to my understanding, existed, but didn't do much else.)

I had to get out of there and have been clean for 7 years. I'd never object to going back if, as has been said, more authors were inclinded to be serious about what they write, but nothing I've heard from friends sugests that much has changed. I find it a shame. The LOTR fanfic quote is as relevant as ever: we have all the creative power and distribution of the internet at our ingertips: this is what we do with it?

 

[VondeVon]

I find I rarely experience inter-genre or inter-fandom "squabbles" and only a touch of shipping wars. These days I find a lot more people being nasty about where you post your work.

I write fanfiction both for my own enjoyment and the enjoyment of others and find it quite startling when my friends sneer at me for posting it on fanfiction.net instead of Live Journal. (Or other similar sites - or smaller, moderated communities)

Apparently, it's no longer 'cool' to post on a fantastically designed and easy-to-use site. Apparently, if finding your fanfic isn't a quest on par with finding the Holy Grail, then your fanfic isn't worth being found. (And yes, I confess - I'm lazy! AND busy! I don't have time to stuff around on LJ every time I want to update a story, not to mention the irritating cross-posting if I want older posts to link to the newer ones without relying on tags.. or Master Lists.. blech)

Well, to each their own, I suppose. Personally, I'll stick to the site that is designed for fanfictions, not blogs. I LIKE being able to sort by category, review count, date updated etc with a single click. I like how it chapters my stories automatically. I like search functions that not only work, but allow you to refine in detail as you go.

And it may be silly of me, but I have this idea where I think fanfiction should be easy to find, not a matter of lucky googling or friend-of-a-friend recs. There have been a handful of fanfictions that have honestly, genuinely, improved my life. Whether they got me through a difficult time or just enriched a fandom so much that it actually spawned its own mini-fandom... fanfiction is a wonderful thing. If ever anything I write can make another person happy, I want them to be able to find it.

And RE: Moderation against 2-paragraph stories featuring typos and nothing else? FF.N has rules. Readers can report these fics if they find it. Of course, when those fics are then taken down, people throw tantrums and sulk off to LJ....

 

[VondeVon]

As for myself, ffnet taught me that I am an ego-tripper at heart, for any story that had recieved fewer reviews than it had chapters I would eventually lose interest in and never finish. What's the point if no one's going to read it?

Heh, I have that mental filter too. In general, my minimum is 10+ reviews per chapter. That gets me to read the summary. (Why yes, I DO just skim the page tracking review counts.)

These days, though, I only ever browse the categories or search for new fics by keyword if I'm DESPERATE. I much prefer trailing from fave list to fave list. Like a story? Great! First check Author for more, then their fave list. Rinse, repeat.

 

[VondeVon]

I'd rather not read a 5000 word chapter about how Character A cried for eight months over Character B's death and then killed himself.

(Grins)

I would. If it was Edward. Or Bella. I'm not picky. As long as they die.

What TheRandomOne said made me think about another thing the article seemed to reflect.

Just because ff.n is known for bad fics doesn't mean all of it is. And just because not all of it is bad doesn't mean there are only a handful of good ones. I have a solid 900 fanfics on my alert list and over 500 on my fave list - and only my absolute favourites make it there.

It can be intimidating, maybe, for newbies to fanfiction to find something to read. When faced with 500K odd fics about the movie they just saw and with no experience on how to filter the crud from the cream, it is likely that their first experience will be.. dissapointing at best.

Escapist should do an article for Newbies to Fanfiction.

 

[VondeVon]

It was such that even when I found something worth reading, odds were the author would lose interest in a month when a new idea came along.

This is my personal fear. As readers, writers don't owe us anything. We don't pay them, after all. All we offer in return for their efforts are critiques and thanks. But that doesn't mean I'm not crushed when their fic dies - or worse, THEY do. I often think that all those authors who just never logged in again after 2000 or so actually DID die. Then I feel guilty for being annoyed or sad that their fic is unfinished.

...many of the authors I was encountering were some of the most undeservingly narsicistic people I could ever encounter.

Oh yeah. Big Fish, Little Pond. It comes from all those reviews filled with capital letters and exclamation marks. A few times I've gone to click 'review' only to spot an AN threatening to not post until they get x amount of reviews.. then I suddenly have better things to do.

I had to get out of there and have been clean for 7 years. I'd never object to going back if, as has been said, more authors were inclinded to be serious about what they write, but nothing I've heard from friends sugests that much has changed. I find it a shame. The LOTR fanfic quote is as relevant as ever: we have all the creative power and distribution of the internet at our ingertips: this is what we do with it?

I know a couple of fics that are so spanking awesome they're worth a cautious look.. except not in the LotR fandom. The best I ever found there was a "Hey, not bad" fic. What fandoms are you interested in?

 

[JohnTomorrow]

I started writing fanfiction when i was about fifteen or so, mostly to continue the story of a game i loved - Final Fantasy 8 - and allow it to focus on a character that i thought was underdeveloped/could have developed better.

So far, i've written two novel-sized 'books' on it, and i'm currently into my third.

Its clear to me, when i go back to the first 'book', where all my faults were. Although i still dont have clarity in the actual machinations of the written form (distinctions of verbs and adverbs, grammer, etc), i could tell almost by instinct what went where, where to drop a plot twist, how to develop the character, etc. As i wrote the second 'book', its clear that i was beginning to hit my stride, and by the end of the 'book' i was, essentially, at the peak of my writing prowess.

Then i had a semi-forced hiatus with writing, which i filled with video games and action films. I've only just started to write the finale to my trilogy, and i feel that, until i do, i will not be able to focus on my original works. As if this was some kind of hurdle i have to leap over before i am fully confident as a writer.

It is hard to dig a diamond from a coal mine, but in order to find it you gotta dig.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

Furthermore, says Dean, fanfiction likes it that way. "[It] doesn't need to justify itself with examples of excellence; it doesn't care for the judgement of those not involved."

Did... he just say fanfiction somehow transcends the traditional concepts of good and bad? If not, he did a poor job getting across whatever he's trying to say. And if that was the message he's trying to get across, then what an arrogant douche!

I sort of get the logic, though. Fanfics are written for fairly narrow audiences, namely people who are already fans of X. Narrow that down to people who are interested in reading a story about X where Y happens, and you now have a group who can't afford to be choosy. They'll be lucky if they find even one fanfic that caters to this interest, much less one that's well written. So it's not so much about transcending standards as targeting people whose own standards are low.

 

[lanoger]

However, I know little of the "fanfic scene". So what I would like to ask is....is FanFiction.net the best place to start for a young budding fanfic writer? Or are there websites that come more highly recommended?

It really depends on what you're after. Ffn is a reasonable first stop if you just want an archive to park it, but, ah, don't expect high quality constructive criticism from just posting blind. There are some excellent fandom-specific sites - including a ton of LJ communities - that also have a lot of discussion about the fic, the fandom, canon, and writing in general.

I never had much against people that wrote to their specific fandom without concern for outside opinions, but I did leave honest commentary when asked, only to be chastised for not praising the author totally. There's review begging, and holding out chapters until you get a certain level of attention which is childish.

Fandom can get pretty damn toxic sometimes. Too many egos in too small a space, I guess. Some are more susceptible to it than others of course - a culmination of target age group and fandom size - but I've seen two people (who I knew were PhD students) going at it like fourteen year-olds. I'm just glad the whole BNF thing seems to have died away.

But there is, perhaps, a danger in encouraging more fanfiction sites to take a professional attitude to writing and editing. By imposing those kinds of rules, they could easily lose their inclusive nature.

Then get accused of elitism and you get the fandom wank of the year.

His Bratz Ponyz/Dark Messiah crossover-fic is still on hold.

I know what I'm requesting next yuletide

 

[Skooterz]

I'll admit I've read the occasional fanfiction, and there is a LOT of garbage out there. However, there are some true gems if you know how to work around the sludge. Some fanfics are either very imaginative, very well written, or even better, both. One technique I use if a friend suggests one to me- she's a writer herself, and reads quite a bit- is called "reading the summary". If the summary is badly spelled, or even worse has an awful summary that includes the words "sry i suk at sumarrys", AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE. If the dolt can't even write a simple two or three sentence summary, what makes him think he/she can write an entire story...? This has always puzzled me.

 

[Grahav]

One thing that made metravel less to fanfiction.net it is the huge pile of romannce fanfiction. It is at least a subgenre of 80% of the fics, I already read some good ones but I am really tired of that.

 

[lanoger]

I've never had a problem with the romance genre as compared to, say, comedy. I'll admit that good humour is difficult to write well and I rarely read it in original fiction, but as a primary genre in fanfic, it should always be avoided.

And by 80% being 'romance', surely you meant 'porn'?

 

[The Random One]

And one week after writing on this thread that I don't do fanfiction any more, I realized that a story I was writing, which used expys of famous characters to deliver a point, would be much better if I called a spade a spade and called the characters by their real names.

Maybe I'll have to register to fanfiction.net after all. It's definitively a better place for a story to be than in my private Google Docs folder.

 

[Tiut]

Well Peter, I don't remember you contacting me on when you actually submitted the article. ;_;

I gotta say though, from what I said, I sound really pretentious. I guess I'm not really cut out to give advice to aspiring writers.

 

[rddj623]

Good stuff. I think it'll be up to the author the level of quality they are willing to put into it. I think an author who is seeking constructive criticism and improving their skills will seek out the communities where that is fostered. There will always be places where anyone can show off anything. It just comes down to how badly you want to improve upon your skills.