Exploring Control Options in Standard
- Thread starter Encaen
- Start date
I've been looking at my mageblade deck and the B/W control cards I've pulled. I'm wondering What to do with them. I want to make a B/W control, I'm just not sure if I want to do only 2 colors or ad a third.
And If I do add a third... which one? I'm not sure what other cards I have to support control in other colors.
In other news. I want to make g/w tokens.
edit:
My post count is high definition!
And If I do add a third... which one? I'm not sure what other cards I have to support control in other colors.
In other news. I want to make g/w tokens.
edit:
My post count is high definition!
I saw some interesting BW/x builds prior to RTR, but I've not really seen much except Esper with BW since rotation. You might do well to hold off on BW control until Gatecrash hits, since that'll give you Dimir and Orzhov shocklands, which, alongside [mtg_card=Hallowed Fountain], will really cement the mana base for esper control. (Plus I'm hoping for a lot of control to come out of Dimir to complement Azorius control stuff from RTR.)Draconalis said:
In other news, I recently made a GW tokens deck, and I've been sorely disappointed with how it performs. I won my first match with it last night, but before that I'd been losing to pretty much everything I played. I'm not sure why, though, since it usually got off to a strong start, and it seemed like it would, in theory, thrive in the late game due to populate effects scattered throughout. People just keep killing my tokens, and leaving me nothing to populate. I'd love to hear a success story about Tokens, though, so let me know if you build it and how it works for you!
So... I'm not gunna lie... having a kid makes thinking hard...Encaen said:
I was reading your reply and thinking to myself "Black white? Only B/W I know about is reanimator." Then I had a sinking feeling and looked up. I meant U/W... Cause Blue starts with a B... and I'm tired
Admittedly though... I'm wondering if I can make some sort of control reanimator hybrid work. I might think about that some. I would be much less woried about sweeping my own creatures that way...
On to the G/W... yeah... that's the problem I keep seeing... that and all the token producing cards are too slow or too expensive. And they are ultimately underwhelming. It just doesn't seem like there's enough to support the colors, which I find odd since this is their set.
What does your G/W deck list actually look like? I'm thinking 4 ofs for:
Call of the Conclave
Selesnya Charm
Centaur's Herald
This essentially gives you an army of 3/3s to build upon with populate... but I'm still skeptical as to how well it would work.
P.S. Sorry I haven't been around much to comments on the proofhexes or to play some games, on top of parenting, I've been sucked back into Wow.
I'm still running Zombies because I prefer aggro/tempo playstyles and I have a personal rule of not running anything over 4cmc. This is a terrible idea right now. Aggro is pretty dead and midrange decks and Bant Control are dominating the format. I'd recommend Junk Reanimator, UWR Midrange, or Bant Control as they are the best decks right now.
The only reason to run G/W right now is midrange/aggro.Draconalis said:So... I'm not gunna lie... having a kid makes thinking hard...Encaen said:
I was reading your reply and thinking to myself "Black white? Only B/W I know about is reanimator." Then I had a sinking feeling and looked up. I meant U/W... Cause Blue starts with a B... and I'm tired
Admittedly though... I'm wondering if I can make some sort of control reanimator hybrid work. I might think about that some. I would be much less woried about sweeping my own creatures that way...
On to the G/W... yeah... that's the problem I keep seeing... that and all the token producing cards are too slow or too expensive. And they are ultimately underwhelming. It just doesn't seem like there's enough to support the colors, which I find odd since this is their set.
What does your G/W deck list actually look like? I'm thinking 4 ofs for:
Call of the Conclave
Selesnya Charm
Centaur's Herald
This essentially gives you an army of 3/3s to build upon with populate... but I'm still skeptical as to how well it would work.
P.S. Sorry I haven't been around much to comments on the proofhexes or to play some games, on top of parenting, I've been sucked back into Wow.
Turn 1
Avacyn's Pilgrim [http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=243212] into
Turn 2
Silverblade Paladin [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=240155] into
Turn 3
Sublime Archangel [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=259725] is just sick. And Rancor [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=253686] makes anything in the deck a threat and ensures that you punch through damage.
If you want to make a Tokens deck, Junk (B/G/W) is a far better option.
EDIT: This is said from a strictly competitive sense, of course.
4 Call of the Conclave, 4 Lingering Souls, 4 Midnight Haunting, 4 Intangible Virtues, 4 Parallel Lives is a good start. If you need to, throw in a few Golgari Guildgates and a couple of Gatecreeper Vines so you can flashback Lingering Souls.Draconalis said:So... I'm not gunna lie... having a kid makes thinking hard...Encaen said:
I was reading your reply and thinking to myself "Black white? Only B/W I know about is reanimator." Then I had a sinking feeling and looked up. I meant U/W... Cause Blue starts with a B... and I'm tired
Admittedly though... I'm wondering if I can make some sort of control reanimator hybrid work. I might think about that some. I would be much less woried about sweeping my own creatures that way...
On to the G/W... yeah... that's the problem I keep seeing... that and all the token producing cards are too slow or too expensive. And they are ultimately underwhelming. It just doesn't seem like there's enough to support the colors, which I find odd since this is their set.
What does your G/W deck list actually look like? I'm thinking 4 ofs for:
Call of the Conclave
Selesnya Charm
Centaur's Herald
This essentially gives you an army of 3/3s to build upon with populate... but I'm still skeptical as to how well it would work.
P.S. Sorry I haven't been around much to comments on the proofhexes or to play some games, on top of parenting, I've been sucked back into Wow.
If you know you play a better long game, you can also throw in Armada Wurms and Unburial Rites. You can also splash just a bit of blue with gates, cast supreme verdict, then Unburial the Wurms.
I have more tempo than control, but my deck is too slow. I need to find a way to get it going faster. Once it gets going, it's hard to stop a deck that has multiple ways to lock down just about every permanent you can put down. It's a deck that was nicknamed long term detain.
If I can stabilize(generally turn 5 or 6) then I can generally win. There's enough Agro out there that stops me due to my lack of speed.
Sometimes I also have an issue where I'll misplay. I'm thinking about retiring the deck and making a variation of Grixis or even Jund control.
With Liliana of the Dark Realms as a primary method of ramp, deck thinning, and mana fixing, Jund Control can work very well. Throw in Chandra, to copy an Overloaded mizzim moarters to act as even more hardcore mass creature removal, and just for specific creatures(Typically Lotleth Troll or Gravecrawler use Sever the Bloodline to ensure they'll never bother you again). Fire of Liliana's ultimate, tap your 5 or 6 swamps for black mana, throw in a R or RR for Devil's Play or Volcanic Geyser, and see how long it takes for your opponent to catch on. Then game 2 swap out your X spells for creatures(meaning you don't fire of Liliana's Ultimate) and cause all kinds of untold chaos to your opponent's mind.
If I can stabilize(generally turn 5 or 6) then I can generally win. There's enough Agro out there that stops me due to my lack of speed.
Sometimes I also have an issue where I'll misplay. I'm thinking about retiring the deck and making a variation of Grixis or even Jund control.
With Liliana of the Dark Realms as a primary method of ramp, deck thinning, and mana fixing, Jund Control can work very well. Throw in Chandra, to copy an Overloaded mizzim moarters to act as even more hardcore mass creature removal, and just for specific creatures(Typically Lotleth Troll or Gravecrawler use Sever the Bloodline to ensure they'll never bother you again). Fire of Liliana's ultimate, tap your 5 or 6 swamps for black mana, throw in a R or RR for Devil's Play or Volcanic Geyser, and see how long it takes for your opponent to catch on. Then game 2 swap out your X spells for creatures(meaning you don't fire of Liliana's Ultimate) and cause all kinds of untold chaos to your opponent's mind.
Most I've been see try to go T1 [mtg_card=Arbor Elf] or [mtg_card=Avacyn's Pilgrim]. T2 drop a [mtg_card=Loxodon Smiter] and T3 [mtg_card=Silverblade Paladin] bonded and strap on some [mtg_card=Rancor]s to the smiter to just start the beating.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
But yeah G/W get's crazy, I've seen some outlying cases involving [mtg_card=Revenge of the Hunted] where the deck can swing for lethal trample on T3.
On an unrelated note, I need to find 2 more [mtg_card=Loxodon Smiter].
I'm surprised that I don't see a lot of people running [mtg_card=Slaughter Games]. It's a very good card with a lot of uses. While it's not too useful in the first game, it's a great card for sideboard to get rid of key cards that your opponents are using. If you want to run it main, you're probably already running at least one hand peek discard effect like [mtg_card=duress] or [mtg_card=appetite for brains]. I saw a game where someone played synchopate on a duress for just enough to not be countered(4), and the guy just said okay, then named synchopate.
Control has had a bit of a resurgence in my meta. Playing Reanimator against CounterTop packed full of [mtg_card=Spell Snare]s has been difficult, but nothing a few [mtg_card=Force of Will]s can't fix.
Hasn't this very column discussed a G/W ramp deck which has, to my knowledge, been rather effective?RedEyesBlackGamer said:
T1 mana dork (in this case, preferably [mtg_card=Avacyn's Pilgrim]),
T2 [mtg_card=Somberwald Sage],
T3 [mtg_card=Sigarda, Host of Herons] and/or T5 [mtg_card=Avacyn, Angel of Hope].
Granted, there's a lot more options splashing Red or Blue in this case, but surely GW ramp hasn't died off completely...
I agree about the tokens, though. Junk is superior to straight Selesnya, with access to lots of Zombie tokens as well as [mtg_card=Bloodline Keeper] and especially [mtg_card=Sorin, Lord of Innistrad] (never underestimate Sorin in a tokens deck...), plus some better control and removal options on defense.
I'm also noticing a distinct lack of [mtg_card=Favorable Winds] in the current meta, at least my local one. Granted, [mtg_card=Intangible Virtue] is superior if you're focusing on multiple types of tokens (and for its Vigilance), but everyone recognizes its threat. Winds is a little more innocuous at first... until you pull out [mtg_card=Talrand, Sky Summoner] and start making dudes while you make dudes (yo, dawg... heh. no). Winds is a little more flexible, opening up a lovely UW or UWB flying deck. The two also pair nicely together for a little extra pump to your Spirits, Drakes, and/or Vampires while at the same time, sort-of protecting your enchants from [mtg_card=Detention Sphere].
The thing with it is it's a little awkward. First you need to know what your opponent has. Sure, with hand peek you can find out, but that's hardly optimal. How do you know what's in their hand is the best they have? If it clearly isn't, then what do you do? Why not run a removal or counter spell rather than run Slaughter Games when it may not even be useful. After all, once the card is on the field and actually a threat Slaughter Games is useless. That is why a lot of people don't like it, it's pre-emptive. You're using it against a card you may never see, which means you may well be throwing away a card/turn.vxicepickxv said:
I can see sideboarding it in against combo decks though. Being uncounterable means you could rely on casting it, targeting the lynch pin of their deck. Which leaves the opponent with a deck full of mediocrity, hopefully anyway. Another thing about it is it is kind of extreme hand peek, allowing you to see your opponents entire deck as well. Which could well be helpful. I think it's not an awful card, it certainly has applications. But it will rarely be the best card you could be running, and that's always what it comes down to in Standard. That's my thoughts anyway.
On the subject of the article, I don't have a lot to say. I did enjoy it, I always like seeing breakdowns of the decks being played. Now, if only I could afford to play them myself...
The different now is that much of the G/W meta is to ramp into an early kill with some of the extremely cost effective RTR creatures. It doesn't mess around with anything over 4 CMC these days. Why drop [mtg_card=Sigarda, Host of Herons] or [mtg_card=Avacyn, Angel of Hope] when could just just be double-strike trampling over them for lethal the same turn.2xDouble said:
I'm currently running two separate aggro decks, and one seems to be holding up really well in my meta, and the other I'm not quite ready to show off so I don't know why I mentioned it.
The first is a pretty generic Golgari Zombies [http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/golgari-and-zombies-and-death-oh-my/] deck that's been pretty successful in a meta that's pretty much dominated by experimental control decks (one of which was a laughably confusing Bant Turbofog).
I'm honestly pretty confused when people say that aggro is pretty much dead in the competitive metagame. I don't think it's dead, I think aggro just need to find new ways to use the toys it already has. Then again, that's just my two cents.
The first is a pretty generic Golgari Zombies [http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/golgari-and-zombies-and-death-oh-my/] deck that's been pretty successful in a meta that's pretty much dominated by experimental control decks (one of which was a laughably confusing Bant Turbofog).
I'm honestly pretty confused when people say that aggro is pretty much dead in the competitive metagame. I don't think it's dead, I think aggro just need to find new ways to use the toys it already has. Then again, that's just my two cents.
B/G Zombies (which I also run) has an unfavorable matchup against any deck running Thragtusk--which is most of them. It has a good matchup against UWR Midrange, but that is just one deck. Zombies focuses on dealing 20 as fast as possible. A lot of decks now essentially start at 30. G/W and U/W, which can deal well over 30 easily, are still okay aggro plans, but RDW and Zombies are pretty dead right now.BatteringVulpine said:
G/W ramping into big Angels is cute, but isn't exactly Tier 1.2xDouble said:
What about G/B and ramping into a a turn 3 reanimated [mtg_card=Griselbrand]?RedEyesBlackGamer said:
You'd want to add white to make it Junk and a turn 3 reanimation of one of your 3-4 fatties is the best case scenario. Any deck would be sweet if you just look at the nut draws.vxicepickxv said: