255: A Simpler Cataclysm

Jeff Groves

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May 21, 2010
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A Simpler Cataclysm

Blizzard is removing many obscure stats in World of Warcraft with Cataclysm and Jeff Groves is all for it. He explains why simpler mechanics make for more important strategic decisions and, therefore, make games more fun.

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Azmael Silverlance

Pirate Warlord!
Oct 20, 2009
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that was a wonderfull article....
the problem is that there simply too many pugs now...so everybody is goign about the MAX players they want in their groups in order to finish off a raid or a specific boss.
But i think Cataclysm will make the game alot more enjoyable...but we still need more end game content...simple but one that can survive for a long time....some emblem farming that would make everybody do instances for months....that will be nice...and put like 20+ dungeons from the begining!
 

Davrel

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Jan 31, 2010
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I couldn't really disagree more.

The game is simple enough as it is; sure some of the maths is complicated, but I enjoy the nuances of getting a perfectly balanced talent tree and tweaking my character to perfection. Having loads of talents to choose from is great, they all subtly impact the way your character plays and allow you to develop some form of personal playing style.

The argument that all the information is there on the internet is rubbish too, because that is the same for every game - they all have walkthroughs - whether you chose to look them up or not is your own business. Don't go changing the game because of the information released about its mechanics...

Further simplification would just reduce the already limited variation between players and produce some homogeneous, boring pool of 10-talent point players who all did exactly the same thing.

The group synergy idea already occurs - though not to such an extent as it used to, and this does need to be changed. Nowadays, every buff in a raid (with a few very minor exceptions) gets applied to everyone, meaning that as long as there is at least one of each class in the raid, you all get buffed. This is, in my opinion, too simple and needs to return to the old system where raid structure and balance actually counted for something.

The game simply needs more content that isn't just a copy/paste of the same grindy repetitious dungeon running, badge hunting fiasco that is going on at the moment - though of course some of that will always remain.
 

Plinglebob

Team Stupid-Face
Nov 11, 2008
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Is it sad that I could identify the UI overlay on the title picture as being a Dwarf Priest's?
 

Captain Pancake

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May 20, 2009
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I'm not so sure I like the idea of reducing the talent points. After all the work you put in to levelling, particularly from 60+, people'll want something to show for their hard work. If you only got 1 talent point every ten levels, then that would mean 9 levels with no immediate payout. When doing the odd levels (53, 55), the talent points fill the void that training usually fills.
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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It's the dumbest crap around. As a combat rogue I essentially have 2 choices, gem for agility or for armorPen when I have enough of it (armor Pen gets better as you get more of it up to the cap). A rogue who makes the min/max choice, locks himself into combat (armor pen is not great for mutilate), will get about a 200-300 dps increase. This change doesn't make it easier for casuals it is not preventing them downing bosses (it's been proven time and time again until you get into end of tier heroic raids that your gear doesn't mean crap, well it can but not to the point that if your good enough to down normal that you won't be able to do early tier heroics) or seeing content. It is just taking out a part of the game that I love and wasn't hurting anyone except the whiners who want maximum dps with out doing an hour of research or downloading a spreadsheet. Bad changes are bad =(
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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Azmael Silverlance said:
that was a wonderfull article....
the problem is that there simply too many pugs now...so everybody is goign about the MAX players they want in their groups in order to finish off a raid or a specific boss.
But i think Cataclysm will make the game alot more enjoyable...but we still need more end game content...simple but one that can survive for a long time....some emblem farming that would make everybody do instances for months....that will be nice...and put like 20+ dungeons from the begining!
Yes because there is nothing like farming easy mode raids because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night.... yea sounds like a great time to anyone who is good. Sorry, it's touchy subject to me since I have been in the game since day one and they have done nothing but dumb it down and prevent me from doing hard content.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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Richard Allen said:
Azmael Silverlance said:
that was a wonderfull article....
the problem is that there simply too many pugs now...so everybody is goign about the MAX players they want in their groups in order to finish off a raid or a specific boss.
But i think Cataclysm will make the game alot more enjoyable...but we still need more end game content...simple but one that can survive for a long time....some emblem farming that would make everybody do instances for months....that will be nice...and put like 20+ dungeons from the begining!
Yes because there is nothing like farming easy mode raids because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night.... yea sounds like a great time to anyone who is good. Sorry, it's touchy subject to me since I have been in the game since day one and they have done nothing but dumb it down and prevent me from doing hard content.
Cry me a river :p That's a problem with your guild, not the game.

I've played since a month after release, I did hardcore raiding back in the days of BWL and AQ40 and I couldn't be happier with the direction the game is going. I like being able to progress and actually have a life outside of the game.
 

tehroc

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Jul 6, 2009
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I hope the author gets his alpha/beta test key soon.

I've played since a month after release, I did hardcore raiding back in the days of BWL and AQ40 and I couldn't be happier with the direction the game is going. I like being able to progress and actually have a life outside of the game.
Yup there it is...more stereotypes. Thanks Funk, I was also raiding hardcore in Classic, its wonderful that the casuals/noobs insinuate that if you were a raider you couldn't have a personal life outside WOW. Your just as bad as the non-gamer slandering gamers in the David Wong's Cracked article from yesterday.
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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Also, "Players worship these guides. But it isn't a strategic decision; it's a math equation that someone else solved for us."... And how is that going to change things the guide will just come out that much sooner. The more I read the article the more I realize the guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Changing specs mid battle? Yea because that won't break anything... *tank dies*, dps, "don't worry I have a tank spec, day saved" /facepalm
 

I am Spy

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Dec 14, 2008
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Richard Allen said:
Azmael Silverlance said:
that was a wonderfull article....
the problem is that there simply too many pugs now...so everybody is goign about the MAX players they want in their groups in order to finish off a raid or a specific boss.
But i think Cataclysm will make the game alot more enjoyable...but we still need more end game content...simple but one that can survive for a long time....some emblem farming that would make everybody do instances for months....that will be nice...and put like 20+ dungeons from the begining!
Yes because there is nothing like farming easy mode raids because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night.... yea sounds like a great time to anyone who is good. Sorry, it's touchy subject to me since I have been in the game since day one and they have done nothing but dumb it down and prevent me from doing hard content.
Find a guild that is doing Heroic ICC then, because there is nothing easy about Heroic Lich King 25 and if your guild is content to run the easy content week after week, it's their fault for not using the hard mode content thats there.

I like the way WoW plays nowadays. Granted I wasn't around in Vanilla and only joined in BC, but I don't want to have to put the majority of my evenings into WoW to get any sort of enjoyment out of the PvE aspect and access all the content that I'm paying monthly for.

However, by all means change the talent threes but I don't agree with the ideas of providing less talent points. That would hinder versitility, not increase it. Whilst the core talents remain the same at the moment, you have no idea how many different Priest specs I've seen over the past few weeks. Some I wouldn't agree with sure, but a lot of them are incredibly different from mine. Providing less talent points would merely reduce the amount of possible viable specs for a specific role. I think what Blizzard is doing at the moment is the way to go; removing the general stat buff talents and providing their bonuses in the form of a 'mastery' which activates when you put a certain number of points into a specific tree.
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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John Funk said:
Richard Allen said:
Azmael Silverlance said:
that was a wonderfull article....
the problem is that there simply too many pugs now...so everybody is goign about the MAX players they want in their groups in order to finish off a raid or a specific boss.
But i think Cataclysm will make the game alot more enjoyable...but we still need more end game content...simple but one that can survive for a long time....some emblem farming that would make everybody do instances for months....that will be nice...and put like 20+ dungeons from the begining!
Yes because there is nothing like farming easy mode raids because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night.... yea sounds like a great time to anyone who is good. Sorry, it's touchy subject to me since I have been in the game since day one and they have done nothing but dumb it down and prevent me from doing hard content.
Cry me a river :p That's a problem with your guild, not the game.

I've played since a month after release, I did hardcore raiding back in the days of BWL and AQ40 and I couldn't be happier with the direction the game is going. I like being able to progress and actually have a life outside of the game.
A problem with my guild? That we're too good? FYI we made it hard mode anub 25 man on 8 hours a week. I have a life, I have a girlfriend, and I have a nice paying job where I go out and drink with friends and co-workers every week. So just because you can't seem to find a good group of people to raid with don't cry to me. People will make excuses but when it comes down to it, wow doesn't require a lot of time to be at the top 5% just a good group of people. World first guilds are another story however. Sounds like your the one crying a river it's just there are more baddies then good players so yours tends to drown dev's with you complaining.
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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I am Spy said:
Richard Allen said:
Azmael Silverlance said:
that was a wonderfull article....
the problem is that there simply too many pugs now...so everybody is goign about the MAX players they want in their groups in order to finish off a raid or a specific boss.
But i think Cataclysm will make the game alot more enjoyable...but we still need more end game content...simple but one that can survive for a long time....some emblem farming that would make everybody do instances for months....that will be nice...and put like 20+ dungeons from the begining!
Yes because there is nothing like farming easy mode raids because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night.... yea sounds like a great time to anyone who is good. Sorry, it's touchy subject to me since I have been in the game since day one and they have done nothing but dumb it down and prevent me from doing hard content.
Find a guild that is doing Heroic ICC then, because there is nothing easy about Heroic Lich King 25 and if your guild is content to run the easy content week after week, it's their fault for not using the hard mode content thats there.

I like the way WoW plays nowadays. Granted I wasn't around in Vanilla and only joined in BC, but I don't want to have to put the majority of my evenings into WoW to get any sort of enjoyment out of the PvE aspect and access all the content that I'm paying monthly for.

However, by all means change the talent threes but I don't agree with the ideas of providing less talent points. That would hinder versitility, not increase it. Whilst the core talents remain the same at the moment, you have no idea how many different Priest specs I've seen over the past few weeks. Some I wouldn't agree with sure, but a lot of them are incredibly different from mine. Providing less talent points would merely reduce the amount of possible viable specs for a specific role. I think what Blizzard is doing at the moment is the way to go; removing the general stat buff talents and providing their bonuses in the form of a 'mastery' which activates when you put a certain number of points into a specific tree.
My point is I'd love to but they don't open up the content and have stated they will continue to gate hard mode for weeks "To make the pace of the game more enjoyable" (paraphrase actually cause I'm not looking on the forums for it =)
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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tehroc said:
I hope the author gets his alpha/beta test key soon.

I've played since a month after release, I did hardcore raiding back in the days of BWL and AQ40 and I couldn't be happier with the direction the game is going. I like being able to progress and actually have a life outside of the game.
Yup there it is...more stereotypes. Thanks Funk, I was also raiding hardcore in Classic, its wonderful that the casuals/noobs insinuate that if you were a raider you couldn't have a personal life outside WOW. Your just as bad as the non-gamer slandering gamers in the David Wong's Cracked article from yesterday.
Uh, if you wanted to actually progress, you DIDN'T. Farming consumables, being at Kargath/the alliance counterpart half an hour early, staying at Kargath for another half an hour for all the rest of your 40 goddamn people to get on, four-five hour raids (and three-hour Scholo runs to get geared for those raids), running Maraudon over and over again for your AQ40 nature resist gear, being on call 24/7 in case Kazzak or Azuregos or the green dragons spawned.

Richard Allen said:
A problem with my guild? That we're too good? FYI we made it hard mode anub 25 man on 8 hours a week. I have a life, I have a girlfriend, and I have a nice paying job where I go out and drink with friends and co-workers every week. So just because you can't seem to find a good group of people to raid with don't cry to me. People will make excuses but when it comes down to it, wow doesn't require a lot of time to be at the top 5% just a good group of people. World first guilds are another story however. Sounds like your the one crying a river it's just there are more baddies then good players so yours tends to drown dev's with you complaining.
Yes, a problem with your guild. You guys are the ones who aren't turning on Hard Modes because you'd apparently rather just blow through easy. The challenge is there, if you aren't trying to get it then you have no right to complain.

I have a good group of people to raid with. We're progressing slowly through ICC because we all have lives and families and can't chain ourselves to a game, but we're progressing. More to the point, it's a very tight-knit family-style guild that I have no desire to leave. Why should I be forced to choose between as welcoming, friendly guild and a HARDCORE RAWRRR YOU NEED 100% RAID ATTENDANCE guild just to progress?

And I'm going to remind both of you; don't be a dick, especially not to staff. Argue respectfully or don't argue at all.
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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John Funk said:
tehroc said:
I hope the author gets his alpha/beta test key soon.

I've played since a month after release, I did hardcore raiding back in the days of BWL and AQ40 and I couldn't be happier with the direction the game is going. I like being able to progress and actually have a life outside of the game.
Yup there it is...more stereotypes. Thanks Funk, I was also raiding hardcore in Classic, its wonderful that the casuals/noobs insinuate that if you were a raider you couldn't have a personal life outside WOW. Your just as bad as the non-gamer slandering gamers in the David Wong's Cracked article from yesterday.
Uh, if you wanted to actually progress, you DIDN'T. Farming consumables, being at Kargath/the alliance counterpart half an hour early, staying at Kargath for another half an hour for all the rest of your 40 goddamn people to get on, four-five hour raids (and three-hour Scholo runs to get geared for those raids), running Maraudon over and over again for your AQ40 nature resist gear, being on call 24/7 in case Kazzak or Azuregos or the green dragons spawned.

Richard Allen said:
A problem with my guild? That we're too good? FYI we made it hard mode anub 25 man on 8 hours a week. I have a life, I have a girlfriend, and I have a nice paying job where I go out and drink with friends and co-workers every week. So just because you can't seem to find a good group of people to raid with don't cry to me. People will make excuses but when it comes down to it, wow doesn't require a lot of time to be at the top 5% just a good group of people. World first guilds are another story however. Sounds like your the one crying a river it's just there are more baddies then good players so yours tends to drown dev's with you complaining.
Yes, a problem with your guild. You guys are the ones who aren't turning on Hard Modes because you'd apparently rather just blow through easy. The challenge is there, if you aren't trying to get it then you have no right to complain.

I have a good group of people to raid with. We're progressing slowly through ICC because we all have lives and families and can't chain ourselves to a game, but we're progressing. More to the point, it's a very tight-knit family-style guild that I have no desire to leave. Why should I be forced to choose between as welcoming, friendly guild and a HARDCORE RAWRRR YOU NEED 100% RAID ATTENDANCE guild just to progress?

And I'm going to remind both of you; don't be a dick, especially not to staff. Argue respectfully or don't argue at all.
First, what exactly was disrespectful? My tone after you told me to cry me a river? Yes you were very respectful of a pretty valid view point. And if you take your job so seriously, maybe you should read my post before commenting.
because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night
I do do hard modes, I don't like waiting 6 wks while they milk my sub and gate it.

I say this in the most "respectful" way possible. If you are going to be staff and tell me to cry a river read my post, it makes you look bad as a professional. My entire repsonce was %100 clear that blizzard won't let me turn on hard modes and they have said they will continue to do this.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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Richard Allen said:
First, what exactly was disrespectful? My tone after you told me to cry me a river? Yes very respectful of a pretty valid view point. And if you take your job so seriously, maybe you should read my post before commenting.
because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night
I do do hard modes, I don't like waiting 6 wks while they milk my sub and gate it.

I say this in the most "respectful" way possible. If you are going to be staff and tell me to cry a river read my post, it makes you look bad as a professional. My entire repsonce was %100 clear that blizzard won't let me turn on hard modes and they have said they will continue to do this.
I thought the :p made it pretty clear that it was a tongue-in-cheek statement, myself.

Gating your hard mode progression? The only "gating" there is that you need to have killed the Lich King to turn it on, unless you mean the general ICC gating that took place when it was released?

Ahhhh, I see what you meant. Apologies, I was reading the "they" in your post as your guild, not Blizzard.
 

Tyranicus

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Feb 8, 2008
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Jesus, are you guys really arguing over gameplay mechanics of WoW? This one of the reasons why I stopped playing, ITS A GODDAMN GAME! I think all of you missed the point the article too...
 

Richard Allen

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Mar 16, 2010
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John Funk said:
Richard Allen said:
First, what exactly was disrespectful? My tone after you told me to cry me a river? Yes very respectful of a pretty valid view point. And if you take your job so seriously, maybe you should read my post before commenting.
because they won't turn on hard mode because we will blow through easy mode first night
I do do hard modes, I don't like waiting 6 wks while they milk my sub and gate it.

I say this in the most "respectful" way possible. If you are going to be staff and tell me to cry a river read my post, it makes you look bad as a professional. My entire repsonce was %100 clear that blizzard won't let me turn on hard modes and they have said they will continue to do this.
I thought the :p made it pretty clear that it was a tongue-in-cheek statement, myself.

Gating your hard mode progression? The only "gating" there is that you need to have killed the Lich King to turn it on, unless you mean the general ICC gating that took place when it was released?

Ahhhh, I see what you meant. Apologies, I was reading the "they" in your post as your guild, not Blizzard.
I'm glad we're on good terms and by gating easy mode they by definition are gating progress in hard that was my only point =) Cheers for heated discussions.
 

Pilkingtube

Edible
Mar 24, 2010
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Plinglebob said:
Is it sad that I could identify the UI overlay on the title picture as being a Dwarf Priest's?
No.. or else i'm sad too :(

Also, I came to the article ready to vent a little, I like picking between mana and spellpower, rather than having them combined..

But as you've explained it in the article, I actually agree, simpler mechanics mean you can focus more on the actual content, as it is, if somebody hadn't told me how much +hit I needed in my raid with a draenei and shadowpriest in the group, i'd have no idea..

However, avoiding deep breath seems pretty common-sense :)
 

Alar

The Stormbringer
Dec 1, 2009
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I think what Richard was trying to say is he would really like it if you could start off with the hard mode right off the bay, without having to go through any sort of gating process (i.e. getting to the Lich King in the first place). That would probably make it a lot harder.

Good article, though. I'm not sure if I agree with reducing the amount of talent points, and the simplification of the stats doesn't really affect me all that much since I'm not in a raiding guild and only get into VoAs, PuGs, or the occasional run from a friend's guild if they're lacking someone.

Bring on the Cataclysm!