256: Hardcore Maleness

[Le_Lisra]

Snip

Snip.

You missed part of the article's point. It wasn't saying the terms are good/right but that's how they are percieved. Example G.I. Joes are for boys and Barbies are for girls. In thier marketing and sells it's mostly true but not an absolute. Though the majority of the public thinks G.I. Joe can be for anyone while Barbie is just for girls or vice versa. but ones who think themselves at one end of the ladder or the other consciously or sub-consciously think it's true when it's not.

I'm in favor of just "gamer" by the way.

Yes, and I think that's wrong.
The comparison with barbie and GI.Joe does not work at all, because they are two very different things. A video game is not a plastic doll. Unless its a very bad game.
To me "hardcore" does not mean male, and "casusal" does not mean female - that's the point.

 

[xdgt]

This pseudo freudian analysis of gaming centering all about gender and stereotypes really says much more about the author of the article than it does about gaming. You are stuck in some decade long gone, it really makes me sick. There are plenty of female hardcore gamers and plenty more male casual gamers, but those are just examples they don't prove anything (only disprove your claim). Some people like RTS some people like shooters some like RPGs some like sims - it says nothing of them as people, only of their tastes. If I like playing with guns it isn't because i'm a guy its because I enjoy it, and if the whole world around me wouldn't enjoy it, I still would. Hardcore and casual are just general terms to describe our tastes as gamers and our dedication to gaming. Take your head out off your ass, find a time machine and join us in the year 2010.

If by chance (no offense on female gamers exsisting or not...) you ever play a few rounds in a FPS multiplayer how many women call each other or thier victims faggots/homos or I totally raped your behind?

Well can't say all of them do since that would be an even worse generalisation, but I have been playing in a british clan with a teen girl (whom I tought everything I knew at the time) who used those terms plenty. Are you trying to say guys are more immature in general? Perhaps, but it doesn't mean that immaturity is 'male' or 'female' its just immaturity.

 

[Khornefire]

A really good column, and not a tiring read like some. Even so, I don't think that slang should be taken so seriously; When you "rape" some "gay" in a game, you don't necessarily assert your manliness, you're just talking the gamer's language. Any social interaction betweenn young males (and excuse this snobbish tone) is going to include such profanities.

 

[Lucane]

Snip

Snip.

You missed part of the article's point. It wasn't saying the terms are good/right but that's how they are percieved. Example G.I. Joes are for boys and Barbies are for girls. In thier marketing and sells it's mostly true but not an absolute. Though the majority of the public thinks G.I. Joe can be for anyone while Barbie is just for girls or vice versa. but ones who think themselves at one end of the ladder or the other consciously or sub-consciously think it's true when it's not.

I'm in favor of just "gamer" by the way.

Yes, and I think that's wrong.
The comparison with barbie and GI.Joe does not work at all, because they are two very different things. A video game is not a plastic doll. Unless its a very bad game.
To me "hardcore" does not mean male, and "casusal" does not mean female - that's the point.

That's my and the articles point. The marketing says these games and dolls are for males or females, but it's the users choice to really decide to believe it or know it isn't true.

Though I guess there was a transfering of meaning for Casual/Hardcore gamer being about how often/much someone plays to difficult or violent for Hardcore and simple or not very competitive for casual So some view the terms completely different to being with.

 

[Forktongue]

Wow, this article is certainly getting more negative reactions than I thought it would! I feel a bit torn, I wanted to like this article but it left me wanting more. This doesn't mean I agree with the author, I was just hoping for a more concrete argument. The author opens their argument by basically saying "everybody knows that hardcore means male and casual means female" and in my experience an opening like this most often is followed by uninformed bias. The gaming community is too large for blanket statements like the ones made in this article.

Where is the research? What studies have been done? When I read an argument like this I want to know what the author read that helped them form their argument. Yes I see the link to the gender-association study in 9-month-olds and it's multiple references throughout the article, but how does that really back up claims about a group composed mostly of adults? Maybe if the author chose a narrower margin of the gaming world to look at this would hold more weight (ie: how children in their formative years perceive the phrases associated with gaming and theories as to why). If anything this article perpetuates the stereotype that video games are for children.

All-in-all I feel like this is an op-ed piece that wants to be a serious argument.

 

[Dexiro]

This article makes me happy :3

There is a kind of gender barrier for some people, and it's bloody annoying!
Personally i love pink and fluffy games as much as i enjoy violent games, it's all down to the gameplay.

Wait til i try to get my friends to play Plants vs Zombies though, they see the colourful box art and avoid it like the plague >.<
It's sad to see that some people are denying themselves genuinely fun games just because they don't affirm their masculinity.

 

[Lucane]

This pseudo freudian analysis of gaming centering all about gender and stereotypes really says much more about the author of the article than it does about gaming. You are stuck in some decade long gone, it really makes me sick. There are plenty of female hardcore gamers and plenty more male casual gamers, but those are just examples they don't prove anything (only disprove your claim). Some people like RTS some people like shooters some like RPGs some like sims - it says nothing of them as people, only of their tastes. If I like playing with guns it isn't because i'm a guy its because I enjoy it, and if the whole world around me wouldn't enjoy it, I still would. Hardcore and casual are just general terms to describe our tastes as gamers and our dedication to gaming. Take your head out off your ass, find a time machine and join us in the year 2010.

If by chance (no offense on female gamers exsisting or not...) you ever play a few rounds in a FPS multiplayer how many women call each other or thier victims faggots/homos or I totally raped your behind?

Well can't say all of them do since that would be an even worse generalisation, but I have been playing in a british clan with a teen girl (whom I tought everything I knew at the time) who used those terms plenty. Are you trying to say guys are more immature in general? Perhaps, but it doesn't mean that immaturity is 'male' or 'female' its just immaturity.

No but I'm saying 9 out of 10 you'll see a guy punch a guy different guy in the family jewels than a girl do the same thing as or apart of a joke/game. But if someone was gonna sell a video of people getting hit in the nuts over and over the 1st audience they'd pick would be a male one regardless of how many women would be interested The game producers are the ones promoting hardcore casual they shouldn't be labels for players gender.

 

[xdgt]

This pseudo freudian analysis of gaming centering all about gender and stereotypes really says much more about the author of the article than it does about gaming. You are stuck in some decade long gone, it really makes me sick. There are plenty of female hardcore gamers and plenty more male casual gamers, but those are just examples they don't prove anything (only disprove your claim). Some people like RTS some people like shooters some like RPGs some like sims - it says nothing of them as people, only of their tastes. If I like playing with guns it isn't because i'm a guy its because I enjoy it, and if the whole world around me wouldn't enjoy it, I still would. Hardcore and casual are just general terms to describe our tastes as gamers and our dedication to gaming. Take your head out off your ass, find a time machine and join us in the year 2010.

If by chance (no offense on female gamers exsisting or not...) you ever play a few rounds in a FPS multiplayer how many women call each other or thier victims faggots/homos or I totally raped your behind?

Well can't say all of them do since that would be an even worse generalisation, but I have been playing in a british clan with a teen girl (whom I tought everything I knew at the time) who used those terms plenty. Are you trying to say guys are more immature in general? Perhaps, but it doesn't mean that immaturity is 'male' or 'female' its just immaturity.

No but I'm saying 9 out of 10 you'll see a guy punch a guy different guy in the family jewels than a girl do the same thing as or apart of a joke/game. But if someone was gonna sell a video of people getting hit in the nuts over and over the 1st audience they'd pick would be a male one regardless of how many women would be interested The game producers are the ones promoting hardcore casual they shouldn't be labels for players gender.

Honestly who gives a **** what the game producers promote? Shape your own opinion and play what YOU like not what the producers want you to, not what your friends want you to. Be an individual for christ sake.
And violence isn't equal immaturity, its just another way to connect to people...physically. And some girls do exactly that to guys for any and no reason just because they run out of decent arguments, knowing it full well that its "wrong" to hit them back (talking about double standards here).

 

[Cornish]

I liked the article; though it was perhaps somewhat lacking in it's argument, but overall it shows a relatively important message which apparently passes several feet over some individuals.

Cheers for the read.

 

[Lucane]

Honestly who gives a **** what the game producers promote? Shape your own opinion and play what YOU like not what the producers want you to, not what your friends want you to. Be an individual for christ sake.
And violence isn't equal immaturity, its just another way to connect to people...physically. And some girls do exactly that to guys for any and no reason just because they run out of decent arguments, knowing it full well that its "wrong" to hit them back (talking about double standards here).

You know I'm agreeing with you right? Someone can call them self a Casual and be completley different from other casual player but by doing so you basiclly say your oppossed to it's oppisite Republicans and Democrats are sorta the same way the individuals can be similar or vastly different but label yourself with a group with a roster not much like your self and all of a sudden your group doesn't appear to include you Like what I assume happened with Republican and Log Caban Republican.

 

[Danpascooch]

I completely disagree, whether something is "hardcore" depends on how challenging it is, how much of a time investment it requires, and how high quality it is.

I don't think "Wii: Carnival Games" being casual has anything to do with gender....

In short, I think this entire article is wrong.

 

[Blueruler182]

Gender rules are moronic, lets just say that and move on.

 

[xdgt]

Honestly who gives a **** what the game producers promote? Shape your own opinion and play what YOU like not what the producers want you to, not what your friends want you to. Be an individual for christ sake.
And violence isn't equal immaturity, its just another way to connect to people...physically. And some girls do exactly that to guys for any and no reason just because they run out of decent arguments, knowing it full well that its "wrong" to hit them back (talking about double standards here).

You know I'm agreeing with you right? Someone can call them self a Casual and be completley different from other casual player but by doing so you basiclly say your oppossed to it's oppisite Republicans and Democrats are sorta the same way the individuals can be similar or vastly different but label yourself with a group with a roster not much like your self and all of a sudden your group doesn't appear to include you Like what I assume happened with Republican and Log Caban Republican.

Terms like that are important for fast identification, when you don't have hours for philosophical debates and just want to get your point across within reasonable time limits.
Doesn't mean that you agree with all those in "your" group or disagree with all in the "opposed" group. Its not about dominance its about showing individuality, as paradoxical as it may seem puting yourself in one group does not detract from your individuality it shows it. Its not about "I'm the same as half the population" its about "I know who I am, and what is my view on this topic or another".

 

[Lucane]

Honestly who gives a **** what the game producers promote? Shape your own opinion and play what YOU like not what the producers want you to, not what your friends want you to. Be an individual for christ sake.
And violence isn't equal immaturity, its just another way to connect to people...physically. And some girls do exactly that to guys for any and no reason just because they run out of decent arguments, knowing it full well that its "wrong" to hit them back (talking about double standards here).

You know I'm agreeing with you right? Someone can call them self a Casual and be completley different from other casual player but by doing so you basiclly say your oppossed to it's oppisite Republicans and Democrats are sorta the same way the individuals can be similar or vastly different but label yourself with a group with a roster not much like your self and all of a sudden your group doesn't appear to include you Like what I assume happened with Republican and Log Caban Republican.

Terms like that are important for fast identification, when you don't have hours for philosophical debates and just want to get your point across within reasonable time limits.
Doesn't mean that you agree with all those in "your" group or disagree with all in the "opposed" group. Its not about dominance its about showing individuality, as paradoxical as it may seem puting yourself in one group does not detract from your individuality it shows it. Its not about "I'm the same as half the population" its about "I know who I am, and what is my view on this topic or another".

Edit: But then people can't really complain if they said they're red rather than blue but then people say the group looks pink, your still red but the majority of the color or the loudest of the color group is pink(or lightish red) then people will think most or all are like that.

 

[xdgt]

Honestly who gives a **** what the game producers promote? Shape your own opinion and play what YOU like not what the producers want you to, not what your friends want you to. Be an individual for christ sake.
And violence isn't equal immaturity, its just another way to connect to people...physically. And some girls do exactly that to guys for any and no reason just because they run out of decent arguments, knowing it full well that its "wrong" to hit them back (talking about double standards here).

You know I'm agreeing with you right? Someone can call them self a Casual and be completley different from other casual player but by doing so you basiclly say your oppossed to it's oppisite Republicans and Democrats are sorta the same way the individuals can be similar or vastly different but label yourself with a group with a roster not much like your self and all of a sudden your group doesn't appear to include you Like what I assume happened with Republican and Log Caban Republican.

Terms like that are important for fast identification, when you don't have hours for philosophical debates and just want to get your point across within reasonable time limits.
Doesn't mean that you agree with all those in "your" group or disagree with all in the "opposed" group. Its not about dominance its about showing individuality, as paradoxical as it may seem puting yourself in one group does not detract from your individuality it shows it. Its not about "I'm the same as half the population" its about "I know who I am, and what is my view on this topic or another".

Edit: But then people can't really complain if they said they're red rather than blue but then people say the group looks pink, your still red but the majority of the color or the loudest of the color group is pink(or lightish red) then people will think most or all are like that.

And that my friend is stereotyping (just like the article did, yeah I'm still pissed about it). Everybody has the right to argue their own point, but every opinion does fall into atleast one group. By invalidating the majority of the group one does not invalidate each and every one of its components.
We had a student body back in high school that made terrible decisions for all of us, that most of the students were actually against. Does it mean we had no right to complain about the policies which we considered wrong and stupid? No because despite them representing us they did not in fact truly represented us but rather their own goals, and we had every right to point it out and demand to have things our way.

 

[Lucane]

The article is saying stereo types are bad but they won't likely change so we'd have to change what we reffer to ourselves as to make a less divided or restrained one.

 

[xdgt]

The article is saying stereo types are bad but they won't likely change so we'd have to change what we reffer to ourselves as to make a less divided or restrained one.

Not how I see it - it keeps on connecting dots that aren't there, like hardcore being male and casual being female. I never saw any such connection and it offends me that someone blatantly states that as true, then tries to say "Please don't think so anymore, and forget any terms that you had earlier, lets all revert to chaos". We never thought so, he did, and we need those terms as I said earlier. Should we also not refer to ourselves as gamers? Or human? Or mammals? Or carbon based life forms? Or living organisms? Or as physical objects? Then how do we make any reference to anyone? Unifying everything into one mesh just brings confusion and damages communication. It's one thing to treat each other respectfully, it's another thing altogether to make ourselves blind to the differences.

 

[Manicotti]

I couldn't read this article without thinking of George Carlin's routine about how war is basically an international game of Penis Envy.

 

[Iron Lightning]

Really now, must we argue semantics so much. Words have neither power nor meaning unless you think that they do. I suppose that if you want to argue semantics, then here is my definition (kindly written before my reply could be transcribed

I take issue with this oversimplification, and not just because all the games used as examples of "hardcore" ones that appeal to male audiences are games I bloody hate (or entire genres I bloody hate in the case of sports titles). For me, the distinction between hardcore and casual games is quite easy to make: Does your game have a narrative structure that gradually unfolds as the player makes progress in the game? If yes, it's not a casual game. If no, it is. Unless it revolves around competitive multiplayer, in which case I will still think of it as merely an 'advanced' casual game since there is ultimately no purpose to your actions in game beyond "shoot some dudes for points" or what have you, but I recognize that others don't see those that way.

If we feel the need to "genderize" terms we are doing nothing more than engendering differences between social groups. I don't play Farmville because it's an absolutely terrible game without any plot beyond "raise a good farm." I also rather enjoy World of Goo a game without any traditionally "masculine" elements.

40% of gamers are women, do you really think that many are just into "girly" games. To make such gender distinctions as this article did is clearly and simply sexist.

 

[Odoylerules360]

"Hardcore" equals masculine. "Casual" equals feminine. It's just that simple.

No, no it doesn't.
Hardcore means Hardcore and Casual means Casual.

I didn't read any farther than this, because it sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about.