Montreal Transit Threatens Lawsuit Over Counter-Strike Map

[Andy Chalk]

Montreal Transit Threatens Lawsuit Over Counter-Strike Map

​

The Société de transport de Montreal is worried that a Counter-Strike map set in one of its subway stations will "create panic" among its users.

Despite its age and popularity, there has apparently never been a Counter-Strike map specifically set in the Great White North. Diego Liatis and some friends thus decided to take the job on themselves, and came up with what appears to be a pretty decent rendition of Montreal's Berri-UQAM [http://www.stm.info/english/metro/a-m11.htm] station. But the work has attracted the attention of the city's transit authority, and not in a good way.

Liatis said he received a letter from the Société de transport de Montreal saying its doesn't want its "copyrighted metro network" to appear the game and that it will consider legal action against him if the map, which is still in development for Counter-strike: Global Offensive, is released. "[The STM] told me that they feared the game could create panic among the city's public transit users," he said.

Liatis requested permission to recreate the station in January, but the STM refused to grant it. He went ahead with the design anyway, because he doesn't believe he can be legally forbidden from recreating a public space. Frédéric Denis, a programmer on the project, described the situation as "ridiculous" and said that terrorists who want to learn the details of the station's layout can just go there and ride around on the subway, like he did.

Liatis said the STM threatened him with a $50,000 fine plus court costs if the map is released to the public. An STM representative confirmed that legal action is being considered but would not comment further.

SourceDo you hav: Le Journal de Montreal [http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/02/16/le-metro-en-guerre]

Permalink

 

[crepesack]

This map sucks anyways. I don't mind. It's totally understandable that they wouldn't want an actual public space being used as the setting for a game involving terrorists either.

 

[Kiyeri]

What I want to know is if there would have been a lawsuit threatened if this was a movie. Same exact context with terrorists, but a movie instead of a video game.

 

[Zagzag]

I can kind of see why they wouldn't want this in a terrorist game, but the author does have a point about being able to just take a train there if you want to know the layout. You could probably get hold of maps or something online if you really cared.

 

[Micah Weil]

What I want to know is if there would have been a lawsuit threatened if this was a movie. Same exact context with terrorists, but a movie instead of a video game.

Probably not, as the producers of said movie would shell out quite a bit of cash to use the location.

That's probably a way to put it into perspective, really. "You're going to pay us to use it in a movie? Sure! Go right ahead. You're going to create free content based around our stuff and we're not going to see a penny of it? LAWSUIT!"

 

[CriticalMiss]

If this goes through then surely it could set a legal precedent that gets anyone who has used a real place in a game sued. And if terrorists wanted to attack a metro station they could just go there themselves like the designer said, I doubt a determined terrorist cell would call off their plans because they couldn't find a decent CS level mod of their target.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Being a Montrealer, it feels like the STM is reacting with the usual non-gamer panic. This is just a fraction of the total station, so this is in no way useful for any potential terrorists looking to "train" for an assault on Montreal's underground turnpike of sorts. My guess is they took one look at Counter-Strike's concept, read the word "terrorists" and immediately thought "That's it; we authorize this and in six months to a year, we're stuck with our own take on Anders Behring Breivik's assault on Utoya!"

This, of course, happening three months after our current PM nearly got shot at. Whichever way you slice it, the SPVM and STM need to stop being so concerned about their public image and start doing something about being actually worth a damn...

 

[Quaxar]

Uh, a subway station isn't public space. That's why subway security can throw you out and fine you. Just like a museum isn't public space just because anyone who pays can enter.

And I don't think it's about training for terrorists at all, just a publicity thing. Especially now that gamers will get enraged over this. And quite frankly, I don't give a frack.

 

[Longstreet]

There are a few reasons i can think of why they would do this.

Cash grab. (see the fine)
Covering up their own asses just in case.
Have a scapegoat SHOULD something really happen. (Terrorists attack our subway system?! surely there is NO WAY other than THIS game they could have learned the layout)

 

[Albino Boo]

What I want to know is if there would have been a lawsuit threatened if this was a movie. Same exact context with terrorists, but a movie instead of a video game.

How many real locations do you see used in a terrorist attack, under there real names, in movies? When was the last time you saw a real airlines name used in a disaster or terrorist movie? Airlines don't let people hijack, crash or blow up their aircraft, why should the Montreal metro be different?

 

[Quaxar]

How the hell do you copyright a "metro network"?

Because it's not a hole in the ground with some rails running through, it's a designed compound and as such automatically protected. So I can't just go around building Montreal Olympic Stadiums willy-nilly because another architect put a lot of effort into the design.
Also, I understand that Montreal Metro is filled with artwork of big Quebecian(?) artists and has unique designs for each station. That's a completely new level of copyright right there.

 

[LordLundar]

How the hell do you copyright a "metro network"?

The plans are under copyright protection under the STM and that includes all copies submitted to the city hall archives. Government institutions can utilize them but private industry needs permission.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

As a long-time member of a Team Fortress 2 mapping community [http://www.tf2maps.net/], I've learned a thing or two about what to expect from multiplayer mapping. And recreating a real-world environment wholesale is generally a sign of lazy design, in that the person responsible can't be bothered to come up with something original. By all means research a real place to get inspiration and a feel for how to make the floor plan believable, if you must, but then take that and make your own thing out of it. Real-world environments typically don't make for good gameplay anyway.

 

[J Tyran]

Why would you be so determined to recreate a real space anyway? A tube station is designed to be a tube station not a good place for gaming, wouldn't a custom made station built around good gameplay be better?

 

[Smooth Operator]

I'm pretty sure they can't prosecute them for that, but I for one wouldn't bother with legal stuff over a map like this because it looks shit anyway.
Just make something they can't badger you for and that actually has some gameplay value.

 

[cathou]

From what I understand the STM would sue him for the use of the STM logo, station name, color of the metro wagon and the use of the map of the metro system (that you can see a couple of time on the inner walls of the wagon. All these are indeed copyrighted. Otherwise I don't really why they could sue. The representation of the station is not that accurate (it's only one floor of the 4 floors of that station, and the train should occupy the entire station length in reality)

So a few changes and they will be able to publish it

 

[Baldr]

I'm pretty sure they can't prosecute them for that, but I for one wouldn't bother with legal stuff over a map like this because it looks shit anyway.
Just make something they can't badger you for and that actually has some gameplay value.

I don't know when Canada's law went into effect, but in the US, any structure built after December 1, 1990 has the ability to be copyrighted, even those in public, and you can be sued if you take a photograph or recreate it in any way. Although most building owner don't really care.

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

As a long-time member of a Team Fortress 2 mapping community [http://www.tf2maps.net/], I've learned a thing or two about what to expect from multiplayer mapping. And recreating a real-world environment wholesale is generally a sign of lazy design, in that the person responsible can't be bothered to come up with something original. By all means research a real place to get inspiration and a feel for how to make the floor plan believable, if you must, but then take that and make your own thing out of it. Real-world environments typically don't make for good gameplay anyway.

I learned all about them not making good gameplay when I used to screw around with stuff like that in the Marathon/Duke3D days. Everything tends to be proportioned wrong and interconnected poorly with the wrong number of entrances and exits and just doesn't flow well at all when people are moving around in it, unless you take a lot of liberties.

An interesting example of something with non-real world maps that has real-world map problems is Oni. They got architects to design the building interiors they used for the levels so they'd feel more realistic, and while they aren't real buildings, they're laid out in largely the same way real buildings would be. As a result, many of them make for kind of crappy levels to play on. They look pretty cool though. Heh.