Remember Me Could Have Been So Much More

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Remember Me Could Have Been So Much More

Yahtzee looks at the good parts of Remember Me and tell us how they could have been better.

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Jan 12, 2012
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Once again, Yahtzee creates a better game then we got. I'm wondering if there were plans to do more in-depth on messing with memories in both gameplay and story, but it was abandoned for standard brawling action.
 

shirkbot

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Reading the article I had an interesting thought: What happens if you modify someone's memories such that they remember being dead?
 

Doctor Proctor

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Oct 21, 2008
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shirkbot said:
Reading the article I had an interesting thought: What happens if you modify someone's memories such that they remember being dead?
It basically results in an error state, and the game mentions that "you can't remember that you're dead".

These are basically the four main end states that can be achieved, along with some non-spoilery hypthetical examples of what that would mean: 1) The memory is altered and results in the same end state as reality (ie- someone that was alive is still alive, or someone dead is still dead, etc), 2) revealing some kind of a pleasant or cathartic variant (ie- allowing for a tearful goodbye that they never had or giving them a new resolve they never had before), 3) the character having the memory dies, 4) the memory is altered such that it will produce a significant personality/goal change in the person being altered (making them betray someone, come around your cause, or healing/causing emotional distress).

You're always shooting for end state #4, although it can be fun (and net you some achievements) to try to find the other ones.

fatb0y said:
Kinda like the movie, "Flatliners". 1st time scriptwriter, I heard, made $400K for that one.
In Flatliners though, they actually DO die, and then remember their time on the other side. I think shirkbot was more referring to the person having their memories being altered to the point that they remember their death as an event, not anything that came after. For example, having an accident in the memory sequence that results in the electrocution of the person you're manipulating, which would be completely impossible since they also have memories of still being alive after the death event.
 

Trishbot

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I'm actually still impressed that a game by a new studio, that's a new IP, that does a lot of experimental things, turned out GOOD. Maybe not GOTY, but 90% of the time a new studio's first efforts don't even get compared to major cult hits like Mirror's Edge.

I think (hope) Remember Me gets an audience, because many games that have rough edges finesse them out in the sequels (anyone remember how lame much of the original Assassin's Creed was?).

Though, it's Capcom... it'll either have faith in it (Okami got a sequel and SO many ports), or Capcom will, ironically, not remember it at all (like P.N. 03, Godhand, Power Stone, or Breath of Fire).
 

Voltano

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You could probably introduce the mind mechanic into the combat system, as an alternate way of defeating enemies non-lethally.

The game pauses when in the "mind-altering" state, and you have a series of powers related to emotions to use on enemies. Things like "Fear", "Anxiety" or "Depression" that all have a cool-down timer on them. Each enemy also has a psyche-meter and psyche-power, the former acting as their "health" from mind-altering attacks and the latter their "attack power" against hostile forces.

The player uses these emotion-attacks as ways of reducing their psyche-meter, and when depleted the enemy will be defeated in their mind that they can't participate in combat. But there is a chance that they might lash back with their own psyche-power, damaging you while in this paused state and hurting your health. Each enemy would have weaknesses and strengths against some emotions. Teenage punks wanting to rob you would be more susceptible to fear-based emotion-attacks, but the same attack won't work against war-scarred soldiers.

Once the powers enter a cool-down state, they will only become useful again when you resume combat. From here you can fight the enemies as normal, or dodge their attacks to wait for your emotion-attacks to recharge for another blast.
 

Covarr

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May 29, 2009
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The best way to make variety in games is to limit the number of mechanics you actually include, and instead create variety in the ways you apply them. Portal had one notable mechanic, that being the portal gun itself, but used it for scaling high ledges, redirecting projectiles, building momentum, bypassing grates, dropping cubes on turrets... A single mechanic (combined with standard minor mechanics such as walk, jump, and carry) found quite a wide variety of uses, even in a fairly short game.

Another example is Super Mario Galaxy, which has a far wider variety of mechanics available, but all working toward the same goal: movement. Mario jumps, spins, runs, swims, stomps, wall jumps, ducks, long jumps... but at it's core, those all serve only two purposes, to attack enemies, and to get from point A to point B. Variety in the game doesn't come from his moveset, but from the way he uses it. Sometimes spinning hits an enemy, sometimes it hits a projectile and sends it toward an enemy, sometimes it makes star bits appear in surrounding grass, sometimes it activates a sling star. Totally different outcomes, but essentially all the same move.

This isn't to say that all games necessarily need to do this. Variety can also come from level design, or even randomization. but when you try to add variety by dividing your game into totally unrelated mechanics that don't complement each other and only serve to completely change the flow of the game, all you're doing is making the game as a whole less fluid (Metroid: Other M's final boss).

P.S. Thanks
 

Clovus

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Yahtzee said:
At this point, there are many different possibilities. We could, for example, run straight up to the guard and allow them to shoot or beat us to death. Then we cut back to reality, and assuming we aren't in plain sight by the time the guard recovers from the memory implant, they will remember having killed us, and will go back to being passive and unaware.
Heh, only a gamer could come up with such a game-y response! Reminds me of the bandits in Skyrim who think it was "just a cat" that made all that noise ... and left that arrow in their head.

I've often wondered what the guards did after they killed me in a game. Did they just go back to their patrol, or maybe did they inform someone that there was an attempted break-in and maybe call in someone to dispose of the body.

But, regardless of how silly this is, it does sound like fun.
 

Ishigami

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Trishbot said:
I'm right with you on that it is a new IP by a new studio and it is decent. It even shows some good production values.
Lets hope their next game turns out more refined and focused.

Yahtzees idea is good tough it would probably turn out a little bit overpowered.
I think a lot of their problems comes from their general game structure. Exploration, combat and the memory remix are all strictly separated from each other. A more connected approach may have resulted in what Yahtzees suggests.
I think that Uncharted 2 would be a good example of this. There you have also these ?structures? (exploration, combat and puzzle). However since the level design is more open and they implemented the stealth mechanics the exploration plays into the shoot outs and puzzles and therefore feels way more connected to each other.
 

yellowmage

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Clovus said:
Yahtzee said:
At this point, there are many different possibilities. We could, for example, run straight up to the guard and allow them to shoot or beat us to death. Then we cut back to reality, and assuming we aren't in plain sight by the time the guard recovers from the memory implant, they will remember having killed us, and will go back to being passive and unaware.
Heh, only a gamer could come up with such a game-y response! Reminds me of the bandits in Skyrim who think it was "just a cat" that made all that noise ... and left that arrow in their head.

I've often wondered what the guards did after they killed me in a game. Did they just go back to their patrol, or maybe did they inform someone that there was an attempted break-in and maybe call in someone to dispose of the body.

But, regardless of how silly this is, it does sound like fun.
I recently platinum'd Assassins' Creed III, and if you do get "desynchronized", the guards just immediately walk off! It does seem slightly off-putting in a not-exactly-explainable way.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Clovus said:
Yahtzee said:
At this point, there are many different possibilities. We could, for example, run straight up to the guard and allow them to shoot or beat us to death. Then we cut back to reality, and assuming we aren't in plain sight by the time the guard recovers from the memory implant, they will remember having killed us, and will go back to being passive and unaware.
Heh, only a gamer could come up with such a game-y response! Reminds me of the bandits in Skyrim who think it was "just a cat" that made all that noise ... and left that arrow in their head.

I've often wondered what the guards did after they killed me in a game. Did they just go back to their patrol, or maybe did they inform someone that there was an attempted break-in and maybe call in someone to dispose of the body.

But, regardless of how silly this is, it does sound like fun.
That is why this idea is so novel because it finally adds a believable fix for the cat problem. Stealth games need a mechanic to reset the guards in order to be playable, but none have really found a way to reconcile that mechanic with logic. Often the guards will just forget about you or will assume that it was a rat who stabbed them in the back. With memory manipulation, you can reconcile the inane behavior.

Not to mention all the other neat things you can do with memory/personally manipulation. Maybe you hack the a guard to make them be fearful of water so they won't patrol by the sewer, or hack a guard to think that an electric fence is turned off and is there for safe to lean on. Just so many possibilities it makes the mind boggle. :)
 

IamLEAM1983

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
Once again, Yahtzee creates a better game then we got. I'm wondering if there were plans to do more in-depth on messing with memories in both gameplay and story, but it was abandoned for standard brawling action.
I keep thinking that the game turned out the way it did because the devs lost time fighting for their idea and hunting for a publisher. Past that I'm almost certain that someone at Capcom made demands about which mechanics to implement, turning what probably was a Cyberpunk adventure game in third person into the noncommittal slog we ended up with.
 

Darth_Payn

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I always rewatch the latest ZP video before reading XP so I can hear Yahtzee's voice in these articles. he described a really clever game, but I can sort of see why the Remember Me crew did what they did, because those memory-rewriting sequences sound like a ***** to design.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Wow, had they implemented your ideas it would've been ten times better!
Maybe make this game yourself instead?

Or send them in for a potential part 2, so the developer can then butcher the fuck out of them, as they will do with any and all good ideas nowadays... At least you'd get a fat paycheck!
 

Machine Man 1992

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Ah man, he took my idea!

My plan was a cybernetic implant that lets you "see" the future through billions of probability calculation per second. In gameplay terms, you can rewind segments of time an avoid mistakes.
 

Baldry

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Damn it why can't the people who make games ask folks like Yahtzee for ideas because what he's thought of sounds like an amazzzzzing addition to the game.
 

Therumancer

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Kenjitsuka said:
Wow, had they implemented your ideas it would've been ten times better!
Maybe make this game yourself instead?

Or send them in for a potential part 2, so the developer can then butcher the fuck out of them, as they will do with any and all good ideas nowadays... At least you'd get a fat paycheck!
Hmmm, well as good as these ideas are as a concept, there is always the question as to whether the development would be viable. Thinking up something that seems like it would be cool is much easier than making it happen... which is how I think a lot of more naïve developers get in trouble, making promises that they intend to keep but wind up just not being able to. In a lot of cases games that promise all these incredible things and then don't deliver them are the result of big companies deceiving you intentionally (such as with Colonial Marines) but in others it's a matter of reality setting in on developers who opened their mouths based on what they want to do or think they can do rather than what they can actually do.

At any rate, I don't want to be TOO snarky, but occasionally when Yahtzee judges games like this and makes suggestions I start to wonder what ever happened to "Fun Space Game: The Game" and if he ever finished it since that seemed to have an interesting basic concept that I suspected was going to be difficult to actually implement the way I remember it being described (similar to his ideas for "Remember Me", which is what made me think of it).
 

Therumancer

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Ah man, he took my idea!

My plan was a cybernetic implant that lets you "see" the future through billions of probability calculation per second. In gameplay terms, you can rewind segments of time an avoid mistakes.
Maybe I miss the intentional joke, but that sounds pretty much like doing "Prince Of Persia" but justifying the rewind mechanics with technology instead of temporal magic.

Also to be honest, if they ever wanted to do a video game starring some obscure comic characters like "Sage" or "The Midnighter" (Wildstorm, recently brought into regular DC apparently) with computer brains who can pretty much play out any fight they could potentially get into a billion times before it even starts and predict everything their opponent does before they do it... a similar mechanic to this would make sense as well.