265: Punching the Baby Seal of PC Gaming

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Games for you seem to be a cheap thrill ... but would you also take the same attitude to picking up a new sport you've never had the chance to invest physical effort in like tennis or fishing? How about billiards?

All require patience, all require organization, all require time, all require effort. This culture of instant gratification in gaming reduces the complexity of experiencing videogames as a medium for the exchange of ideas and art. You're not helping the fact with your incessant diatribe against problems for which my personal experience informs me is but a base defamatory attack on a cultural medium that is both fallacious and grievous.

You're conflating "learning the rules of a game" with "creating the effort necessary to get the game to a stable starting point."

Learning how to fish = learning how to play a game.

Learning how to fish does not *require* building your own rod, your own pond, troubleshooting the reel, adjusting pH levels, updating the fish drivers, or any other hundred errors.

I go buy a rod and some bait, I can start to fish. Maybe not well, but I can fish. I don't have to study the discipline. I don't have to be a rabid hobbyist. I can just... fish.

And, I can choose to master the discipline if I want to.

But I can do it as a beginner without worry.

PC gaming is difficult for the amateur, average gamer. It's becoming increasingly marginalized, and I suspect some actually *like* that it's marginalized.

-- Chuck

But therein lies the rub. For example, some gaming mediums need marginalization. For example I DM a FR Campaign (3rd ed) and whilst I will not turn away someone interested in the game, I will expect a level of co-operation with other player characters and myself dming whilst they play.

The same could be said for pc gamers.

Whilst I like all others prefer a well coded, well programmed, well thought out game design I do not also blame the medium itself for providing physical and cerebral challenges due to the continual evolution of the community. For one I believe it adds to the experience, not detracts. For example ... mods. That alone sells me to PCs.

I create strong boundaries between 'DLC' and 'Mods'. Whilst both are shared by the internet, one is definitively PC and the other is an amalgam of console and PC. Both are welcome (to an extent) but it's an amazing, thought provoking social commentary one can find in downloading a Neverwinter Nights mod that someone created. Someone who laboured for no pay to create what they thought people would enjoy.

Whilst many are not worthy of your time, whilst paid DLC needs to adopt a level of professionalism and market appeal to actually sell, but there have been classic examples of someone who puts in 100s of hours of work and redefines your experience of a game.

Consoles to me are like static gaming constructs. If interactivity and change are the aspect of videogames that elevate it to digital art, then one can't also shirk the understanding that PCs then embody this idea of art better than consoles could ever do so.

There is also the embodiment of the ever changing physical constraints to create a virtual existence. Gaming consoles are just persistent, pcs are reactionary. There is added appeal in this as well.

 

[RadiusXd]

perhaps the find chap who made that rant should clean the old pet hair and asbestos dust out of his computers, seriously, maby then things will stop overheating on him.

 

[RadiusXd]

Can't people just leave us pc gaming alone?
can't they just accept the fact that even if the can't partake, that we at least keep competitive pricing within just bearable levels?
And don't they realise that getting games to work on pc is likely how most people who grew up to MAKE fantastic games started, or at least gained some experience?

Seriously people, to each his own, and just be damn glad that microsoft hasn't fully monopolised the gaming industry completely and then continued to charge $100 for software that probably costs them oh, lets say <$2!

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Someone might have said this already but, in case not (I didn't look at all 355 comments hehe), the Fallout 3 issue is a common one, usually to do with multi-threads/core processors.

A few minutes in the official FO3 forums, the hardware/software subforum, should yield an answer.

Of course, you can always go back to the 360 version - just hope you don't want to use many of the superb mods for the game.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

I want to play games, not be a desktop support specialist.

Strangely, due to some sort of bug, I couldn't beat the last boss with full settings. No joke, I had to run the bastard at 800x600 with all the settings at min for it to render a part of the boss that I needed to shoot. WTF?

Also, 64-bit windows doesn't like Riva Tuner, so I have to "allow" it on startup every time. A part of the problem was that the nvidia console and other settings don't actually show core temp. Need third party for that as well.

1. But it's not that difficult. I've never had any training in any of these things and I'm very competent with computers. Certainly competent enough to deal with any problems.

2. Ah that's because it's maaaaaasssiiiivveee. It's just a lot of movement and particles and mesh to render.

3. Turn off UAC?

It's true that there are problems with PC gaming of course, but they're not really hard to deal with. At least, they've never been for me. Just a quick google and follow the step-by steps. In the worst case scenario, just reformat. Cheaper than sending it in for repairs, that's for sure.

1. I haven't had any training either, though I grew up building PCs with my dad. My point was more that your "average" gamer doesn't necessarily want to deal with that. Further, it shouldn't be a requirement. There are still a lot of people who aren't comfortable with, and probably have no business in, the control panel even. Let alone msconfig, drivers, firmware, or (God forbid) the registry. Some people just want to kill internet dragons, or space marines or what-have-you, without having to deal with that kind of stuff. Though gaming isn't the worst culprit, I've had my DVD-RW drive just up and disappear after an Adobe install; those have been fun fixes.

2. I understand that this particular boss is larger than your average console map, in the middle of the ocean, with a full carrier, three battleships, an island, and about 20 dogfights going on in the background. However, for a machine and game that handled the rest of this just fine, you'd think maybe the shields (or whatever it was) could have made it higher on the priority list of things to make sure are there. You'd think dropping some settings would work, or the resolution a little, but no, it only showed up at 800x600 with everything low.

3. I don't see what the corporation that opened a portal to Hell on Mars has to do with this conversation... oh, that UAC; User Account Control, which is marginally worse than the other UAC, yes, I suppose I could, actually, I really should... why haven't I? My issue is more that even with the hardware/software itself, you need third party applications to diagnose and correct. Nvidia recently had a driver release that essentially turned the fans off in their cards with some applications. The people who noticed were using third-party temp monitors and fan controllers, those with the tools provided by the manufacturer had no way to know. Riva Tuner is essentially an third-party registry tool for overclocking and other such "advanced settings", and I use it to force my video card into not melting itself while running at stock settings.

PC Gaming is indeed much "better" in many respects; but it shouldn't be because the user has to learn more about computers and invest more time in making it work just to play the game. Yes, you could say that increased benefits require increased investment. I would say the cost of the equipment would be that. A "good" gaming graphics card is about as expensive as a console at this point. Yes, you use a PC for other things, but the cost difference from a productivity PC to a "gaming" PC is already greater than the cost of a console.

As for repairs; I bought an Xbox 360 at launch. It has played every game released for it just fine out of the box. I've sent it back for RROD once. The whole box is covered under one warranty. I've gone through two desktop PCs and three laptops in the same amount of time, plus upgrades. Though I've only had to RMA the one video card. Each install has been a new adventure into my configuration. With a PC, each part is from a different manufacturer under a different warranty. Unless you buy pre-manufactured, Dell etc... which seems to be a bad as console to most PC folks.

I play on PC, I prefer PC, and I'm okay with dealing with the challenges that come with it. The problem I see is that most "PC Elitists" believe that because they accept it, everyone else must.

 

[Busdriver580]

I disagree with this article , sure I cant buy anything without going through hurdles to get it to run. I game pc though, because there are some things consoles haven't done well yet (RTS/MMO), also I dont like to shell out for parts and waste hours every few months to fix my Xbox. PC has hurdles, but I would argue that they're the smallest of any modern gaming medium. And if my coffee maker shot java at my balls i would troubleshoot it, because making your own coffee is significantly cheaper than say starbucks.

 

[Tharticus]

I think this article is made to test out PC gamers limits and decide to bring their fuel tanks.

Anyway, I can sympathize Chuck for his PC problems and why he wants to go into the easy lifestyle. And yes, PC enthusiasts consider this a hobby, others consider it time waster from ordering parts that they have little to no knowledge much to the likes of Intel v. AMD processors and nVidia v. ATI graphic cards, to see if their PC is outdated to play their games, to having bugs and installation problems.

Since I was age 10, I was tampering PC parts and see which part goes which and I didn't have a manual. I ordered a gaming PC premade and it sucked. Years later, developing a knack for certain PC games, I did research on PCs and maybe build one day if I have loads of time.

I certainly know that PCs are more powerful than the consoles, but they come at a price, both costly and time consuming. If anyone can ignore those two factors, anyone can make a PC out of scratch.

I can respect that Chuck.

 

[wadark]

I love seeing all these people saying "the problem is you"

Because it is...

Typical story of a person who doesnt know much about computers, first off don't buy a dell XPS that is your first problem. Build your own gaming computer, so that you arent over charged, and dont have BIOS restrictions and a bunch of BS programs and on your pc that only slow it down. Second, (again with the dell trash) their cases have poor airflow and you probably have a bad heatsink, dust the inside of your case with compressed air and get a better cooler. Excess heat probably causes most of your lock ups in the first place. Lastly disable processes that have probably accumulated through using different programs, and use CCleaner to clean up the crap floating around on your drives. Hell, Defragmenting your drives would help too. Problem solved, you learned something and baby seals dont have to be punched.

Again, why is the first response "build your own computer"? Please, read what I'm about to type, understand it and stop being so prejudiced:

1) Building a PC is still expensive.
2) I DON'T KNOW HOW to build my own PC.
3) I don't have the time between a job, school, and a child, to learn how to build one. I barely have enough time for the hobby that I enjoy so I'm certainly not going to waste what little time I have by trying to navigate the internet labyrinth to learn what I need to know.

1) building a PC is less expensive then buying a prebuilt one
2) A 5 year old could do it, its not hard
3) The time you waste on the internet in one day or less you could be done your pc

My only response is thank you for proving my point. I'm done with this discussion.

 

[Thick]

It's interesting to see how much hate this is inciting, very little of it getting beyond the "Learn to troubleshoot" variety the article alluded to (or, to be more accurate, "Stop overclocking")

 

[maxben]

"My PC was robust: a Dell XPS"

Well THERE is yer problem!

Pre-built PCs are the DEVIL! Seriously, any problems you may have BUILDING a PC are completely offset by you knowing exctly what is on there. Pre-built PCs are loaded up with so much secret and hidden crapware, my god, the only real solution is to format your hard-drive and start from scratch with a fresh install.

Plus, they may give superficially good specs but they screw you in the details.

PCs are DESIGNED to be built with minimal skill, and the most basic equipment and facilities. They are DESIGNED to be built ON a desk by anyone who has the competence to assemble Ikea furniture or change a busted fuse without electrocuting themselves.

"Of course, nobody can seem to get their microphones to work"

This is almost entirely down to people buying cheap mics and not configuring them correctly. Usually people use a cheap mic that is so weak it only picks up anything if you mouth is practically touching the receiver and you carefully pronounce each word. I used to get terrible mic performance, then I got a decent mic... then it was as clear as radio 4.

I have found the same terrible mic-receiving on 360 as well: because Microsoft uses cheap mics.

But the thing is Consoles games don't "just work" as their performance is utterly miserable half the time, settling for 24-30 frames/sec. Dedicated servers, they just aren't bloody well there! Console solution is not to make it work, but simply eliminate the things that DON'T work. It's a cop out.

But mainly "Team frotress 2: works fine" "Left 4 dead 2: works great"

Then "Fuck PC gaming, I give up"

Say WHAAAAAAAAT!?

Why give up on ALL PC games just because the Games-for-Windows-Live version sucks? Why? Huh? Why?

More bullshit absolutist arguments, either 100% PC gaming or none at all. You have some serious anger issues, PC gives you problem for SOME games now you hate it for ALL games. Pure illogical prejudice. I hope you don't apply the same logic to other things, like against people.

I'm sorry if I'm an idiot that DOES have trouble putting furniture together.
I built a PC, thinking along the lines that it will be better for cheaper.
Guess what? I've had more issues with it than my premade PCs.
I've had every single issue he talked about in his article.

And the second part is this, should you have to build it from scratch?
Imagine you set on premade furniture and it snapped. Or imagine that buying a premade car was crap and people told you you should have just built one on your own.
What would you think?

I think you are missing the point because you are EXACTLY the kind of PC elitist of the "read the manual" type.
I play PC games and hate consoles, but the reality of the headache that is PC gaming is reality.
Whether its dealing with unnecessary bugs, installing various superfluous software, or building the hardware itself; PC gaming makes you want to punch a seal.

But its still better, still more customizable, still has a better interface (I will never trade a mouse and keyboard for a controller). As he said at the end of the article, games like Civilization V remind us that for a true gamer the PC is king.
But like the scorned Progressives in the Democratic Party (yes, I'm crass enough to use politics as an analogy to gaming) we are expected to shut up about the issues because "where else would we go"?

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I go buy a rod and some bait, I can start to fish.

What? No beer? Fishing without drinking is like sex without the midget.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

The only real trouble I have is playing a game for several hours at a time, it starts to run very slowly. I chalk this more up to the age of my computer then PC games in general being of bad quality. Still my Xbox doesn't do this. But getting Dragon Age on console seems practically criminal.

Depending on your set up, it could be heat build up slowly knackering performance (common for extended gaming sessions on notebooks) OR a poorly coded game. Dragon Age was/is terrible for it on the PC, even after they released a patch for the issue. Save, Exit Game, Run Game, Load, Play does the trick but it can be a pain in the arse.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

And I don't know if I'll be able to resist Civ 5...

You won't.

Sid owns your arse. Admit it and be liberated.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

PC gaming, as you mention, can be a very frustrating experience. Early adopters tend to be the hardest-hit with problems; I'm among the people who bought ARMA 2 at launch, and well, it took a fair few months for some of the missions to be patched to a state where they could be completed. Similar problems existed with Empire: Total War and the mentioned Fallout 3, both of which I purchased on the release date.

Despite that, one of the beauties of being a PC gamer is you can often find work-arounds and 3rd party patches when there is a problem rather than waiting for the developer to both admit there IS a problem and then actually pull their thumbs out of their arses and patch it. On a console you're stuck with game breaking bugs or suboptimal performance until the developers deign to notice the issue.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Or imagine that buying a premade car was crap and people told you you should have just built one on your own.
What would you think?

I'd think it was Friday... because I usually see at least one of my petrolhead nephews on Friday.

Or I'd think I was at a family barbie, with my all petrolhead nephews and their petrolhead Dad, in which case I'd be thinking ways to get the biggest share of the potato bake.

 

[the_carrot]

Perhaps he is conflating these things, but taking care of one's computer is not really any different than taking care of gear involved for any other hobby. And yes, the care does take some effort. His analogy is not without some merit, you should have given him that.

Games for you seem to be a cheap thrill ... but would you also take the same attitude to picking up a new sport you've never had the chance to invest physical effort in like tennis or fishing? How about billiards?

All require patience, all require organization, all require time, all require effort. This culture of instant gratification in gaming reduces the complexity of experiencing videogames as a medium for the exchange of ideas and art. You're not helping the fact with your incessant diatribe against problems for which my personal experience informs me is but a base defamatory attack on a cultural medium that is both fallacious and grievous.

You're conflating "learning the rules of a game" with "creating the effort necessary to get the game to a stable starting point."

Learning how to fish = learning how to play a game.

Learning how to fish does not *require* building your own rod, your own pond, troubleshooting the reel, adjusting pH levels, updating the fish drivers, or any other hundred errors.

I go buy a rod and some bait, I can start to fish. Maybe not well, but I can fish. I don't have to study the discipline. I don't have to be a rabid hobbyist. I can just... fish.

And, I can choose to master the discipline if I want to.

But I can do it as a beginner without worry.

PC gaming is difficult for the amateur, average gamer. It's becoming increasingly marginalized, and I suspect some actually *like* that it's marginalized.

-- Chuck

 

[Danpascooch]

Sure emulators are fine if you want to play the SNES,

Or the BBC, Electron, Spectrum, C64, Amiga, PS1, PS2, DS, Gameboy, GBA, Arcade, Pinball, C16, Dragon, Oric, etc.

but show me a nice 360/PS3 emulator that works.

Sort of tough to do that without breaking forum rules, doncha know.

I like how you placed FPS in the realm of PC exclusive genres, when most FPS players play on console.

Well, Micro$oft seems to put FPS squarely in the realms of PC. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.217020-Rumor-Microsoft-Killed-PC-Xbox-Cross-Platform-Play?page=1]

Personally, I don't have much of a problem playing PC games, but lots of people do, and it's a big annoyance when you paid for the thing!

This is up there with "it costs too much" and "it always breaks down". Lots of people die from being stung by a bee each year (around 53) but that's hardly a reason to go on a bee vendetta.

Also, don't talk about "watching videos" and "writing letters" just because I play games primarily for the console doesn't mean I don't own a PC, this is about their relative merits as gaming platforms.

One of the relative merits being that I can switch between game/video/music/letter with a few key presses.

Another thing, it's harder to cheat online with consoles.

It's also impossible (legally) to mod anything. Or upgrade it. Or...lots of other things.

I'm not saying Consoles are bad, I'm just saying that PCs aren't that bad.

First off, many emulators barely work, and very few if any work for all games of their platform, DS emulators can't even get the sound right for half the games. Don't try to pull that "forum rules, so I can't show you" thing, 360 and PS3 emulators do not exist, and if they do, they don't work, if you find one, by all means post it, it's not the emulator that's illegal, and it's legal to even USE the emulator with ROMS provided you own the game.

Secondly, what was with that shot at Microsoft? That article was just showing that they weren't doing cross play, it doesn't support your implied belief that FPS's are primarily as computer gaming affair (because you lumped them in with RTS's and MMO's), it was totally irrelevant, and it's not true that FPS's are more popular on Computer's than on Consoles at all, quite the opposite actually. It was completely irrelevant flamebait, I am sick of that stupid $ replacement in Microsoft's name when it's A$$pple that's been doing to money grabbing policies lately. Not allowing PC gamers to play online with Xbox gamers in no way "puts FPS's squarely in the realms of PC".

Lastly, you talking about the relative merits of being able to switch between video/game/music/letter (which the 360 can do ALL of except email, so it's really just email) is idiotic because it saves maybe 3 minutes a month, as opposed to the hours spent troubleshooting glitchy PC titles.

It's also impossible (legally) to mod anything. Or upgrade it. Or...lots of other things.

Seriously? I don't mean to be rude, but "Or...lots of other things" isn't really a proper argument, basically what you're saying is "let's write off that PC gaming problem...because lots of other things have problems and stuff"

I respect PC gaming for the people it works for, but I don't think PC gaming is superior to consoles, or vice versa, I think they both have distinct advantages that mean each individual person will favor one over another.

for example:

Console:
1.) Less time Troubleshooting
2.) Ease of use
3.) Gamepad by default
4.) Harder to cheat because files cannot be edited or loaded directly
5.) Less intrusive DRM

PC:
1.) Modding (surprised you didn't mention this, it's the single biggest merit PC gaming has over consoles)
2.) Centralized media
3.) Slightly Cheaper
4.) Money invested improves both gaming capabilities AND other computer capabilities.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

PC:
1.) Modding (surprised you didn't mention this, it's the single biggest merit PC gaming has over consoles)

It's also impossible (legally) to mod anything. Or upgrade it. Or...lots of other things.

Yeah, if you're paying that much attention to what I wrote, I'm not really that surprised.

Then just referring to my points as idiotic before repeating the same things I said. Not really a case for continuing this discussion.