Shadow of Mordor Accused of Actually Using Assassin's Creed Assets

[Cognimancer]

Shadow of Mordor Accused of Actually Using Assassin's Creed Assets

Today's gameplay debut of Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor turned a lot of heads, including one former Assassin's Creed developer who thinks it looks awfully familiar.

Judging by today's debut video [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/131602-Middle-Earth-Shadow-of-Mordor-Gameplay-High-Fantasy-Assassins-Creed], the gameplay of Monolith Productions' Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor clearly draws a lot of inspiration from the Assassin's Creed series. The eight minutes of pre-alpha footage showed protagonist Talion running, jumping, climbing, and air-assassinating in a manner that's nearly identical to the gameplay of Ubisoft's series. Granted, there's nothing wrong with mimicking a successful game series, especially with Shadow of Mordor's other, more original mechanics - except this might not be mere inspiration. Charles Randall, a former developer at Ubisoft who worked on Assassin's Creed II, claims that Shadow of Mordor is literally using his code.

"Check it out, guys!" Randall joked as he linked the trailer in a tweet. "I apparently made a Middle Earth game!" A few tweets later, it was clear that Randall recognized his own work in Talion's controls. He worked on the combat and air assassinations in Assassin's Creed II, and although the combat looks more like Batman than Assassin's Creed, he's convinced. "Watch the video," he says. "That's AC2 stuff in there. Code/anim for sure."

[tweet t=https://twitter.com/charlesrandall/status/426372317237616640]

Randall admits that he doesn't have legal rights to his work on Assassin's Creed II, since it's all property of Ubisoft, so he can't do anything but "hope [he gets] a special thanks" in the credits. That said, there's been no word from Ubisoft on whether they've licensed their engine to Monolith Productions, or whether it is the same code at all. We'll keep an eye out for official statements from either company.

Source: IGN [https://twitter.com/charlesrandall/status/426369922566852608]

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[Dr.Awkward]

Join the crowd, you're not the only one tired of seeing reused AC assets in every game...

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Yeah, unless he can prove that they actually copied code... more importantly, where would they copy it from?

I dunno, it just seems like this guy is jumping his gun. Yes. Someone else made a game where you run around and jump. Saying that the animations are the same is the kicker. Yes, let's make it so when you run and jump... you run and jump? Clearly, if anyone makes an animation that looks like someone running and jumping, they are copying our code!

 

[Orange12345]

Join the crowd, you're not the only one tired of seeing reused AC assets in every game...

Ba Dum Tish

after watching the gameplay demo, yea it looks a hell of a lot like AC even some of the movements look identical. As to whether or not they have stolen assets I can't say, but it looks like they have actually added more features then the last 3 AC games combined so I think its fine, lots of games take ideas and styles from other games like cover based shooting from gears of war for instance

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Hey guys maybe if we say it's much more like Ass creed more than enough times it really will be!, Ubisoft will then proceed to suing those guys and then we'll get jack shit for a game!/ sarcasm.

Next thing you know the original inventor of the car/wheel would have said "jeez can you believe those guys using my car/wheel assets in that movie", just because you think there's some of your "code" in that other game doesn't mean it's automatically proven and true, even if he is joking it's such a random non funny type of joke, like the awkward guy trying to make non friends laugh at the mall and gets ignored kind of joke.

I'm actually interested in this game but to see it bogged down and named "copycat" so damn early annoys me, we've hardly had original innovative game ideas for years if you want to go to that far.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Looking at the game, the movement of Talon look almost the same as the Assassin Creed Games. Particularly the climbing and the crawling on the "wires of unknown purpose".

 

[Elfgore]

The air assassinations somewhat look like AC2, but the combat just screams Arkham series. Either way I don't care. I love LOTR and Assassin's Creed so this game is a big bunch of awesome for me. I might even break my rule after Rome 2 and pre-order it... MIGHT!

 

[Kuala BangoDango]

Yeah, I don't get it. It seems to me he thinks a game-style can be owned or something. He gives no evidence (unless I missed it) of any coding examples, only that it "looks" like the same game/animations. And if that sort of thing can be copyrighted then someone needs to be handing out a lawsuit for all those CoD/MoH/FPS clones which all seem to use the same run/shoot/reload/die animations or all these survival/Minecraft clones which have everyone chop at rocks with a pickaxe.

If he's talking only about the coding itself then he needs evidence. Do these 2 games even use the same engine/programming language?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Uh, I'm pretty sure they'd need the AC engine for that. If anything I get more of an Arkham feel from it. Does look pretty neat due to the Nemesis system.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Uummm don't like it don't work for a commission work royalties only.

 

[EdwardOrchard]

I only know the basics of programming, so, for any Escapists out there who are in the know... Is it possible for one to actually 'recognize' their code from a gameplay video like that? What is happening specifically that makes this guy say, "Yup, I did that."

Thanks

 

[Smooth Operator]

I only know the basics of programming, so, for any Escapists out there who are in the know... Is it possible for one to actually 'recognize' their code from a gameplay video like that? What is happening specifically that makes this guy say, "Yup, I did that."

Thanks

Well it's not the code they recognize but all the movement and interactions seem to be one for one with Assassins Creed, that doesn't happen unless someone is using the same code.

 

[Scrythe]

You know, SCE Santa Monica was a good sport [http://www.destructoid.com/god-of-war-director-all-about-dante-s-inferno-164406.phtml] about it when Dante's Inferno all but ripped animations and other themes [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/98476-God-of-War-Director-Still-Loves-Dantes-Inferno] from God of War.

But whatever. I can see why someone who's entire legacy boils down to being a mere code monkey for one a fucking Screed game would leave a gigantic chip on your shoulder. Not everyone can become the next Suda51/Hideo Kojima/Keiji Inafune/Peter Molyneux/Notch/David Jaffe/Tim Schafer/Cliff Bleszinski/Warren Spector/American Mcgee/whoever the fuck is the current "name" in gaming these days.

 

[Amaror]

Well it's not the code they recognize but all the movement and interactions seem to be one for one with Assassins Creed, that doesn't happen unless someone is using the same code.

That last bit is bullshit, when you know what your doing creating animations that look like another animation is pretty easy.
Sure it's a bit cheap to copy from assassins creed so blatanly, but that, by no means, means that they are using the same code.
They could be, but it's in no way prove that they do.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Yeah, that looked an awful lot like Assassin's Creed, and I have to say that it turned me off of the game (so tired of sneaking around). Then I saw the combat, and I became interested again. I will keep my hopes up, but within reason. The trailer is promising a lot and I'm not sure if they can deliver.
But yeah, I would not be surprised if some piece of AC code or something related to that found its way into this game. The questions though are how did that happened and what, if anything, is Ubisoft going to do about it.

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

Yeah, I don't get it. It seems to me he thinks a game-style can be owned or something. He gives no evidence (unless I missed it) of any coding examples, only that it "looks" like the same game/animations. And if that sort of thing can be copyrighted then someone needs to be handing out a lawsuit for all those CoD/MoH/FPS clones which all seem to use the same run/shoot/reload/die animations or all these survival/Minecraft clones which have everyone chop at rocks with a pickaxe.

If he's talking only about the coding itself then he needs evidence. Do these 2 games even use the same engine/programming language?

Both dance and coding can be copyrighted, so it would not be a stretch for Ubisoft to claim those assets as copyrighted if they could prove a link between the assets.

Basic features to a genre (such as the pick ax used for mining or the presence of a gang in a organized crime game) are not copyrightable in the same way because they are essentially necessary for a story in the genre.

EDIT: OT: Looking at the gameplay demo, yeah, the similarities are strikingly similar, and if Ubisoft could prove a definitive link between the ACII and LotR:SoM code (such as a common programmer or access to the assets), then they would have a good case in US courts.

 

[Dandark]

People in this thread seem so aggressive and against the guy. I don't think he is planning to bring up a law suit against them or anything, he just found it funny and pointed it out. I would do it with my friends if I noticed it, i'd just be all like "Hey look they are using the exact same animations as that other game, how lazy XD".

He tweeted it so he probably just saw it as saying out loud to some friends as a joke. Most people seem to forget how public something like Twitter can be. It was just a joke, I found it funny at least.

 

[JakobBloch]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you are going to find a lot of games with code pieces in them that are exactly the same. Coding is a game of logic and creating a piece of code that makes a gun fire or triggers a specific animation or starts a timer or triggers a move or pretty much anything will come down to a limited number of permutations. It is entirely likely that 2 programmers will come up with the exact same code for an action or series of actions. This becomes even more prevalent when considering that when you program you are trying to limit the hardware footprint of any given action (or at least you should). Interestingly enough the two "pieces" of code might actually look entirely different when looked at side by side but as you go through the different objects, pointers and what have you, they are virtually identical.

In other words: Yes he may have spotted something that is actually a carbon copy of something he made several years ago but that does not mean it was copied. More than on person can invent calculus.

From another point of view though monolith might have licensed the engine used for AC so if Charles Randall did in fact work on that chances are he will be in the credits either directly or indirectly as I am pretty sure the deal will include a requirement to show that they used that engine.

 

[Mad World]

This is so obviously the Assassin's Creed's Anvil (or AnvilNext) engine. There's no way that they didn't get the "Okay" from Ubisoft; blatantly using someone else's engine without their consent would never fly.

Edit: some are stating that this game uses the LithTech engine. Personally, I'd be surprised; everything about this resembles Anvil to a considerable degree.

 

[UrinalDook]

Two things. Firstly, a lot of people seem to think this guy's getting uppity because SoM is 'similar', or has 'copied the style'. I'm pretty sure a professional, industry animator who spends his entire day going through movements of 3D models frame by frame to ensure it looks smooth without being a resource hug is going to recognise the subtleties of nuances of a specific animation he probably spent weeks on. This isn't about Talion having a similar pose to Ezio while hanging off a ledge, it's about how when he shimmies across which bone moves first, how much it moves and how long the transtion takes.

If the guy says its his work, I'm inclined to believe him.

Second thing, however, is that tag on the footage that says 'pre-alpha'. I've already seen people getting cynical about that, hell I'm one of them to an extent. Some of those assets (mostly the character models and a few particle effects/shaders) look way too good for even a beta stage. But animations are definitely one of those things that could get worked on as the game is developed. Maybe they cribbed the AC2 animations as a placeholder so they could get some of their models in motion and show off the nifty features they've got coded, rather than try and build interest with an interview or press release while they go about re-animating things.

Just a theory, mind, but I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions. In both directions, at that.