Shadow of Mordor Accused of Actually Using Assassin's Creed Assets

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

Oh I hope there's not some big investigation into this that halts development because of this comment. I think Shadow of Mordor looks great, and if it gets cancelled because of some lawsuit I'm going to be pissed.

 

[AndrewC]

Those animations are definitely from AC2.

For people saying "oh 2 people can come up with the same code blah blah." Yes that's true for code - but you don't get the same animations unless you take someone elses rig WITH THE ANIMATION DATA and just fire it into another engine.

I could take something from Blender into Maya and say "hey look I made an animation" then some guy could take my Maya scene and throw it unto Unity and say "hey look I totally never stole this, I made it legit! It just looks the same because uhh...err..."

So yeah, even if they say they never licensed/took/'conveniently borrowed' or whatever, those are definitely copied animations either from saved out animation data or they've just taken the whole rig + data and shoved it on a new character and tidied up the weight painting so the new model deforms accurately enough to whatever magical rig they got their hands on.

PS: I study computer animation and even I knew instantly where those animations were from/'based on' without reading the article before viewing the video.

 

[Floppertje]

Those animations are definitely from AC2.

For people saying "oh 2 people can come up with the same code blah blah." Yes that's true for code - but you don't get the same animations unless you take someone elses rig WITH THE ANIMATION DATA and just fire it into another engine.

I could take something from Blender into Maya and say "hey look I made an animation" then some guy could take my Maya scene and throw it unto Unity and say "hey look I totally never stole this, I made it legit! It just looks the same because uhh...err..."

So yeah, even if they say they never licensed/took/'conveniently borrowed' or whatever, those are definitely copied animations either from saved out animation data or they've just taken the whole rig + data and shoved it on a new character and tidied up the weight painting so the new model deforms accurately enough to whatever magical rig they got their hands on.

PS: I study computer animation and even I knew instantly where those animations were from/'based on' without reading the article before viewing the video.

You don't need to study animation to see that's no coincidence...

 

[Krantos]

I only know the basics of programming, so, for any Escapists out there who are in the know... Is it possible for one to actually 'recognize' their code from a gameplay video like that? What is happening specifically that makes this guy say, "Yup, I did that."

Thanks

Well it's not the code they recognize but all the movement and interactions seem to be one for one with Assassins Creed, that doesn't happen unless someone is using the same code.

Not necessarily.

For one thing, animations and visuals are almost completely separate from code. Generally, the code will just reference animation and art files. Those are usually created in separate programs and then linked in the IDE the developers are using the write the code.

That's why the article keeps talking about "assets," which is generally used to refer to those files separate from the code.

Secondly, it's entirely possible for two programs to do the same thing but have completely different code.

Mostly though, they're talking about the animations. You can't compare code from a video, but yeah, the animations look REALLY similar. Close enough for them to possibly be the same ones.

However, as the article points out, for all we know Ubisoft gave them the assets. The guy who sent the tweet doesn't work for Ubisoft anymore.

 

[Simple Bluff]

It would actually be a pretty good idea to straight up rip off the 'Screed engine if Ubisoft allowed it. That way the navigation mechanics would be mostly done leaving you with all the time in the world to work on the original stuff, like the Nemesis system or whatever else.

 

[AndrewC]

Those animations are definitely from AC2.

For people saying "oh 2 people can come up with the same code blah blah." Yes that's true for code - but you don't get the same animations unless you take someone elses rig WITH THE ANIMATION DATA and just fire it into another engine.

I could take something from Blender into Maya and say "hey look I made an animation" then some guy could take my Maya scene and throw it unto Unity and say "hey look I totally never stole this, I made it legit! It just looks the same because uhh...err..."

So yeah, even if they say they never licensed/took/'conveniently borrowed' or whatever, those are definitely copied animations either from saved out animation data or they've just taken the whole rig + data and shoved it on a new character and tidied up the weight painting so the new model deforms accurately enough to whatever magical rig they got their hands on.

PS: I study computer animation and even I knew instantly where those animations were from/'based on' without reading the article before viewing the video.

You don't need to study animation to see that's no coincidence...

I never said you had to. I'd rather just pitch my two cents given I know about the subject area.

 

[Vrach]

Yeah, unless he can prove that they actually copied code... more importantly, where would they copy it from?

I dunno, it just seems like this guy is jumping his gun. Yes. Someone else made a game where you run around and jump. Saying that the animations are the same is the kicker. Yes, let's make it so when you run and jump... you run and jump? Clearly, if anyone makes an animation that looks like someone running and jumping, they are copying our code!

I think what bothers him is that the freeclimbing movements are pretty much identical. If you showed me just the freeclimbing and told me it was a reskin of AC, I wouldn't have a hard time believing you.

I hope that if they did use the code, the engine was licenced from Ubisoft. The game looks pretty awesome and fuck knows there hasn't been many good LOTR games... well, not even recently, ever. The only thing I didn't like in their video is the occasional QTE sequence, but I'm guessing these are used sparingly for boss fights, so I could handle overlooking that if the rest of the game's as good as it looks.

 

[Simple Bluff]

The only thing I didn't like in their video is the occasional QTE sequence, but I'm guessing these are used sparingly for boss fights, so I could handle overlooking that if the rest of the game's as good as it looks.

I think they were contextual. They seemed to occur when Talion was on low health, and the enemy was dealing the "killing blow" so it could be a sort of second chance mechanic for combat. Which wouldn't be such a terrible thing really, Contextual QTEs are a lot less offensive than the surprise insta-death in a cutscene QTE.

 

[Vrach]

The only thing I didn't like in their video is the occasional QTE sequence, but I'm guessing these are used sparingly for boss fights, so I could handle overlooking that if the rest of the game's as good as it looks.

I think they were contextual. They seemed to occur when Talion was on low health, and the enemy was dealing the "killing blow" so it could be a sort of second chance mechanic for combat. Which wouldn't be such a terrible thing really, Contextual QTEs are a lot less offensive than the surprise insta-death in a cutscene QTE.

Yep, that's what I'm hoping. I hate QTEs with the burning passion of a thousand suns, but I don't mind them much used sparingly in this way (or at all if done right, like ME2's conversation cutscene interrupts)

 

[freaper]

The climbing in the first few minutes of the trailer looked almost identical to AC's climbing animations. Then again, how much differently can you make a burly guy in his thirties climb a tower?

 

[Vivi22]

Yeah, unless he can prove that they actually copied code... more importantly, where would they copy it from?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if any number of people who've left Ubisoft since AC2 were working for this other developer. Actually, given the number of people who worked on AC2, I'd be more surprised if no one who worked on it worked there.

I dunno, it just seems like this guy is jumping his gun. Yes. Someone else made a game where you run around and jump. Saying that the animations are the same is the kicker. Yes, let's make it so when you run and jump... you run and jump? Clearly, if anyone makes an animation that looks like someone running and jumping, they are copying our code!

The guy isn't talking about animations which do something similar, or may have some passing similarity. He's talking about lifting them verbatim from AC2 with no differences at all. And if they did lift animations and actual code from AC2, they would be breaking the law unless they had permission to do so first, so from Ubisoft's point of view it's a good business move to determine if it's true.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

Bah, my first thought was actually the Arkham games when I saw this, and it looks good. I think he needs to chill out.
This game is set in an entirely different universe, and is way more engaging (on the surface) than assassin's creed.