8 Bad Games that Severely Damaged Great Franchises
- Thread starter ffronw
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Saved the "best" for last I see. I still can't understand why they went with that direction. Nor will I ever forgive EA for it.
Uhg MOO3 was horrific. MOO2 was a classic and I was looking forward to bigger better looking version of MOO2. Instead MOO3 had thrown all the good bits of MOO2 of of the window.
I actually enjoyed Master of Orion III, but you would indeed be hard pressed to find another who does.
The only problems I had with it would be the middle-to-late game omissions in the report window and the somewhat opaque explanations of what actions precipitate or cause what.
Some players also abhor space lanes for some weird reason.
(No, not sarcasm, really. I kind of like the choke-points it creates.)
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Dungeon Siege III & Sacred III would probably fit in this list as they too veered far of course from previous gameplay and received quite a lot of criticism for it.
Hmm, would Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel count as well?
The only problems I had with it would be the middle-to-late game omissions in the report window and the somewhat opaque explanations of what actions precipitate or cause what.
Some players also abhor space lanes for some weird reason.
(No, not sarcasm, really. I kind of like the choke-points it creates.)
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Dungeon Siege III & Sacred III would probably fit in this list as they too veered far of course from previous gameplay and received quite a lot of criticism for it.
Hmm, would Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel count as well?
I remember playing the Beta once, and a single tear ran down my face for I knew the game series I had loved as a child was dead.ShakerSilver said:
Probably not, since Fallout 3 and New Vegas were hits, if not glitchy up the wazzoo, and now we have Fallout 4 to look forward to. Or did you mean the damage done to Fallout's original studio?Vendor-Lazarus said:
I'm honestly surprised BoS didn't make the list. I mean, that's a big part of why Fallout 3 didn't come from Black Isle. General incompetence from Interplay is also a large part of it, but still.Vendor-Lazarus said:
It's not a "bad game" per say, but Doom3 probably deserves a special mention. Since it was such a vicious departure from the existing franchise, and led to a 10 year hiatus.
I'm actually kind of surprised Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness didn't make the list.
RE6's inclusion is weird... since Revelations and Rev 2 rolled out after that. Of course, I kinda like 6. It's not a good game, but it isn't some franchise killer either.
I quit RE6 after about twenty minutes of gameplay, when I realized I'd faced more quicktime events than I had zombies.
I wouldn't say Nuts N' Bolts was strictly a "Genre killer", but it sure as hell shouldn't have been the next chapter for the Banjo Kazooie franchise. It was a good game really, but if anything, it should have been a side game, or another IP entirely, just not the lofty heights it tried to aspire to and would never reach!erbkaiser said:
One addendum to the C&C saga, there was the reboot that was scrapped in the closed alpha phase. The one whose entire existence ultimately served as salt the wound for the fans and the final death knell for the longest running RTS franchise.
Guess its been a while since ive burned an effigy of Mike Glosecki. Who, by the way, was also responsible for Army of Two: The Devils Cartel.
Its really simple when i think about it. EA execs wanted more income, so they ordered the niche spinoff be billed as the next big release in order to increase thier profit margins.ShakerSilver said:
Guess its been a while since ive burned an effigy of Mike Glosecki. Who, by the way, was also responsible for Army of Two: The Devils Cartel.
1) Warfighter. Ugh. One of the few games I actually traded back in, which is saying something. I liked the rebooted Medal of Honor. It wasn't amazing, but I thought it had potential. And then this game came along and...terrible. The only part I remember, and even liked, is at the very end when you are about to open the door and your teammate says, "...and Rabbit." I thought that was a nice touch and call back to the first game.
3) I don't know...I actually enjoyed RE6. Not nearly as much as 4 or 5, but I still had fun with it. Of course, I had a friend that I played the entire game with, all three campaigns, start to finish, so that probably helped a lot. I do agree that it messed up the franchise though, because so many people hated it.
3) I don't know...I actually enjoyed RE6. Not nearly as much as 4 or 5, but I still had fun with it. Of course, I had a friend that I played the entire game with, all three campaigns, start to finish, so that probably helped a lot. I do agree that it messed up the franchise though, because so many people hated it.
Hey, just a note, in the Masters of Orion blurb, you wrote "urn-based strategy". while i'm as excited as the next guy about the prospect of Funeral Home Simulator, i don't think it's what you meant.ffronw said:
correct it, don't correct it, i don't think it matters either way, but it would be something i'd want someone to tell me if i had written it.OT: no mention of Turok??
as a Red Faction fanboy, i fought my hardest to like Armageddon, with a surprising measure of success, but I will admit that it was a complete mis-step. all they had to do was make guerrilla, but bigger and better. somehow, they thought that meant corridor shooter with the BARE MINIMUM of the destruction that made Red Faction awesome in the first place.
gotta go through my achievement list and look for a few more franchise murderers....
hmm, two games came close in my opinion, and definitely soured me from their respective franchises: AssCreed 3 and Halo 4.
Some would argue (i.e. yahtzee) that Thief did this, but having only recently started it (and never played the previous ones), i'm actually really liking it.
can we prematurely add Battlefront to this list? cause, i mean... come on. seriously. come. on.
3D mortal kombat games came close i'd say.
oh and last but not least, Shadowrun. again, not a franchise i was familiar with before, and actually enjoyed while playing. but i was young and naive! last played 9/27/2007.
It resulted in Fallout 3 coming out and redefining the entire series for the better while keeping all the lore and themes intact, so I'd say having to deal with such a craptastic game was more than worth it.Starke said:
If this was a list about "8 great games that improved upon the previous entries in the franchise in every way yet are hated on anyway" then DOOM 3 would qualify.
But, that's the problem isn't it. Fallout 3 never came out, the license passed to Bethesda and they turned out a brain damaged simulacra of a once fantastic RPG setting reduced to the simplest level for the grade school crowd.immortalfrieza said:
I can legitimately say that Bethesda was not more unfaithful to the lore than BoS... but they certainly gave it their college try, and came shockingly close.
But, hey, there's Jet here, that's lore friendly, right?
Yes, of course, my mistake. By taking a game renowned for it's constant action, waves of enemies, and mazelike maps filled with secrets... and instead produced a game that would shit itself and die if more than four monsters were on screen at a time... they did vastly improve it.immortalfrieza said:
And, of course, who can forget the utterly fantastic story about Doctor Betrayer and his plan to open portals to hell so he could sell the corporation to demons.
Yeah.
So, here's the thing, Doom3 isn't a bad game per say. But, it is an absolutely terrible Doom game. Before Doom3, Doom was a franchise where you blasted your way through swarms of monsters, and dodged incoming attacks. Doom 3 is half an inch off Survival Horror. It belongs on this list exactly as much, and for precisely the reverse reasons, as Resident Evil 6. It was straight up action, and Doom 3 is trying to be action/survival horror. And, it really doesn't work.
Doom went from being a game about shooting monsters in the face with a shotgun, to a game about putting your shotgun away, turning on a flashlight, looking around, deciding there was a monster you wanted to shoot, putting away your flashlight, taking out your shotgun, and firing a couple times, hoping it hadn't moved. And, even if you did shoot it in the face, you didn't get to see that.
Yeah, huge improvement there.
Also, it really did damage the brand. Between 1993 and 2004 there were 4 Doom titles released, not counting ports. If you include ports, that number goes way up. Since 2005 there've been... well, nothing. Just some ports of Doom 3 onto other platforms and a couple rereleases of the original trilogy box.
I mean, this is a franchise that went from releasing titles fairly constantly, to... nope. Nothing doing.
And it's now been over a decade since the last new Doom game released, and we're only now seeing an announcement for another game? Yeah, that is a "damaged franchise."
It's a pity what happened to "MoH: Warfighter", I actually kinda liked it. And did you guys see the multiplayer mode's gun customization? I thought "Brink" was extensive with the gun mods, but "MoH: Warfighter" had more points of customization AND a broader variety of bits you could put on your gun!
If they had found a way to make use of that weapons customization in the campaign, that would have been cool. I'd really like to see another game do what "Warfighter" did with customization options on a weapon.
If they had found a way to make use of that weapons customization in the campaign, that would have been cool. I'd really like to see another game do what "Warfighter" did with customization options on a weapon.
Listen, at this point I feel like Urn-Based Strategy in Funeral Home Simulator would probably sell, judging from how the rest of the Simulator titles have sold.martyrdrebel27 said:Hey, just a note, in the Masters of Orion blurb, you wrote "urn-based strategy". while i'm as excited as the next guy about the prospect of Funeral Home Simulator, i don't think it's what you meant.ffronw said:
haha sadly, i think you're right. we probably shouldn't give anymore ideas to these developers though. i'd never forgive myself if that got greenlit.ffronw said:Listen, at this point I feel like Urn-Based Strategy in Funeral Home Simulator would probably sell, judging from how the rest of the Simulator titles have sold.martyrdrebel27 said:Hey, just a note, in the Masters of Orion blurb, you wrote "urn-based strategy". while i'm as excited as the next guy about the prospect of Funeral Home Simulator, i don't think it's what you meant.ffronw said:
I'm not even going to bother breaking down everything you said and responding to each bit, simply because all of it boils down to the same thing "This game is not a carbon copy of previous games in the series therefore it is bad." It's the No True Scotsman fallacy at it's most painful and blatant.Starke said:
Fallout 3 does NOTHING to defy the lore in any way, it expands on that lore while replacing it's combat and exploration systems with something far more detailed and involving. DOOM 3 is still a game about shooting demons in the face with a shotgun but now that they decided to update it to more modern standards and thus put a little atmosphere, atmosphere and give the player something to do besides shooting demons in the face just so you can find more demons to shoot in the face thus making the still many many times the player does shoot demons in the face all the more enjoyable instead of becoming repetitious it's a terrible DOOM game.
This sort of insane attitude is the reason why so many samey follow the leader copy and paste games come out these days. Lore has to be followed exactly to the letter or it's wrong, no matter the wiggle room that lore should logically allow. No series or genre is allowed to innovate and improve upon itself in any way or it is not a real game in the series or genre. Why should developers bother making something better and fresher when everybody screams bloody murder precisely because they did?
I grew up playing both of these series. However, unlike many I am able to look past blind nostalgia and recognize just how limited those games were and how much better they've become as a result of this retooling for both of them. BOS damaged the Fallout franchise there's no doubt about that, but DOOM 3 is not the reason it took so long to make the new DOOM. DOOM 4 was stuck in development hell for a variety of reasons, none of which had anything to do with DOOM 3, if anything 3 renewed interest in a franchise that had been really stagnant for a long time.