PS4 Probed
- Thread starter The Wooster
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Just fuck this console generation. I can't help but feel Sony is being a smug douchebag who's resting on his laurels. The change from the Xbone at launch to what it is now is quite impressive. The PS4? Still the fucking same. They haven't even added the simplest of options, to let me choose what button I want to use for "select".
Thank God for the RX480 and 1070/1060. If not them, then their upgrades. PC isn't perfect, but it's gotta be better than this.
Thank God for the RX480 and 1070/1060. If not them, then their upgrades. PC isn't perfect, but it's gotta be better than this.
And for the most part that's true. You won't be able to take advantage of the full capabilities the system has without a 4k EV. But people are mistaking honesty for arrogance. Don't have a 4 k TV, then you'll get the most for your money from an Xbox S. Have a 4k Tv? Then we have the system for you!gigastar said:
To me, it feels like Sony is good at convincing everybody and itself that it knows what it's doing, but in practice this hasn't held up over the years. The only times when they seem to be succeeding is when they get lucky, and success does not seem to stem from anything inherent within the company itself. For the most part, the games drive the business, and companies may be good at attracting the people who make them, but they're too caught up in whatever nonsense they think is the driving factor (usually some form of inflated sense of self) and don't focus on making the content delivery streamlined and accessible.
This is a poor state of affairs when they were supposed to be the last bastion of console gaming.
This is a poor state of affairs when they were supposed to be the last bastion of console gaming.
Finally someone sums up exactly why this whole 4k thing is bullshit. Nonetheless I find their are even more reasons.
A - I aint buying a new TV for at least another like 10-15 years maybe because I have two really really fucking good 1080p sets and three really really fucking good 1080p computer monitors.
B - Nothing will actually require and utilize 4k to the extent one would invest in said tv until we get to the next proper console gen.
C - Most games are going to get a minimal benefit at most on the new consoles because devs and publishers aren't going to spend the money to make super exclusive vastly better versions of them, since like, five people are going to benefit from those right now.
D - If I truly, truly want to get the peak of visual fidelity and performance in gaming, my way more powerful and way better PC that is cheaper and easier and more reliable to upgrade over time is where I'm going to keep doing that.
This whole 4k console thing just smacks of "PLEASE DON'T PLAY PC GAMES GUYS PLEEEASEE WE NEED MORE MONEY!"
A - I aint buying a new TV for at least another like 10-15 years maybe because I have two really really fucking good 1080p sets and three really really fucking good 1080p computer monitors.
B - Nothing will actually require and utilize 4k to the extent one would invest in said tv until we get to the next proper console gen.
C - Most games are going to get a minimal benefit at most on the new consoles because devs and publishers aren't going to spend the money to make super exclusive vastly better versions of them, since like, five people are going to benefit from those right now.
D - If I truly, truly want to get the peak of visual fidelity and performance in gaming, my way more powerful and way better PC that is cheaper and easier and more reliable to upgrade over time is where I'm going to keep doing that.
This whole 4k console thing just smacks of "PLEASE DON'T PLAY PC GAMES GUYS PLEEEASEE WE NEED MORE MONEY!"
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Basically this.LazyAza said:
I have a 1440p monitor (so 2k), so I would actually get some benefit out of buying a 4k capable PS4...except that I already have a PC and a PS4, the PS4 is only there for playing Sony exclusive games, and I'm not buying a whole new PS4 just for that when I already bought a PS4 almost exclusively for Bloodborne. If my old PS4 is going to be capable of running all the exclusive games for the generation then I don't really see the point of upgrading.
So yeah, PC.
Last Christmas, I got a ~50 inch 4k Tv for $350 and even I don't want these new consoles.
What both the Pro and Scorpio SHOULD have been based around are:
-Improved frame rate.
--Having a game, especially a shooter, run at 24 frames in 2016 when I just played Deus Ex and System Shock 2 on Pc which both came out around 2000 at 70 fps is EMBARRASSING!
-Better gameplay
--Contrary to popular opinion, having better specs CAN make gameplay better. An example of this being unequivocal is Final Fantasy 1 compared to Final Fantasy 6 (I'm not a 7 fanboy) and GTA 1/2 compared to 3/San Andreas. An example of this being debatable, is Super Mario World compared to Super Mario 64 (I lean towards 64) and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past compared to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask (I lean Majora's Mask). Still, technology advancing allows BETTER gameplay or at the very least evolution of gameplay.
-Improved features
--This is a quick final point. Every console gen since PS2 has either introduced new features like online play, patching/updating, downloadable content, social features, stuff like that. What is this Pro console going to do for gamers? Will it let you change your name? Make clans and groups? Search for games on the store better? Let you share games more easily?
What they are basing around is:
-4k resolution
--In NA, people barely anyone has the capability or knowledge to enjoy
-HDR
--See above
-4k BluRays
--Most people stream movies online through any given service. If they don't, they buy DVDs and nothing else.
If all this system is gonna be is the latter three points and none of the former three points, then I'll just focus on upgrading my PC. If it DOES do one or all of the former three points, they WHY didn't they focus on it? Graphics are in the eye of the beholder- GAMEPLAY is king in GAMING.
What both the Pro and Scorpio SHOULD have been based around are:
-Improved frame rate.
--Having a game, especially a shooter, run at 24 frames in 2016 when I just played Deus Ex and System Shock 2 on Pc which both came out around 2000 at 70 fps is EMBARRASSING!
-Better gameplay
--Contrary to popular opinion, having better specs CAN make gameplay better. An example of this being unequivocal is Final Fantasy 1 compared to Final Fantasy 6 (I'm not a 7 fanboy) and GTA 1/2 compared to 3/San Andreas. An example of this being debatable, is Super Mario World compared to Super Mario 64 (I lean towards 64) and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past compared to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask (I lean Majora's Mask). Still, technology advancing allows BETTER gameplay or at the very least evolution of gameplay.
-Improved features
--This is a quick final point. Every console gen since PS2 has either introduced new features like online play, patching/updating, downloadable content, social features, stuff like that. What is this Pro console going to do for gamers? Will it let you change your name? Make clans and groups? Search for games on the store better? Let you share games more easily?
What they are basing around is:
-4k resolution
--In NA, people barely anyone has the capability or knowledge to enjoy
-HDR
--See above
-4k BluRays
--Most people stream movies online through any given service. If they don't, they buy DVDs and nothing else.
If all this system is gonna be is the latter three points and none of the former three points, then I'll just focus on upgrading my PC. If it DOES do one or all of the former three points, they WHY didn't they focus on it? Graphics are in the eye of the beholder- GAMEPLAY is king in GAMING.
That would open a different, uglier, can of worms.RebornKusabi said:
Contrary to what some people believe, the PS4 Pro is NOT the next Sony console generation, but a slightly more powerful PS4. As such, the worst thing they can possibly do is create games that only work on the Pro. The new games may look slightly better, run slightly smoother, have shorter loading times or better resolution there, but they are not going to include new gameplay elements or expand on features that require this new hardware to run while still calling them PS4 games.
I know cynicism is the default response to many people, but I would rather have that. I would hate if console generations deteriorates into forcing me to look at the back of the box and remember the model number of my console, or chasing minimum specs around, like this was PC or handheld gaming, or the features of the latest iphone flavor. Consoles capabilities in terms of gameplay should be universal across the generation. Wants to make it run better on newer SKU? Fine. But don't sell me a game and then tell me "this mode only works in PS 4 Pro Ultra v2.4 Ed.3 and above" in the menu.
Yet at some point that is going to happen, on both Sony and Microsoft's upgraded systems.hermes said:
Some developer is going to come up to them and say "we really want our game on your service but we just can't make it work with the base model."
Maybe not in the first year but I really do expect that in the second year of their lives these upgraded consoles will have games exclusive to them, and not just VR titles.
I'm going to go against the opinionated recommendation of the Internet and obtain a PS4 Pro. However, I intend to do this by trading in my current PS4 and a couple of its games (one I don't play and the other I decided to buy the digital version because I like not having to swap discs), the PS3 that I'm not playing anymore and all its games that I have that I no longer play because I'm always playing my PS4. This (I've already talked with the clerk at Gamestop with my list of trades) will reduce my purchase to about $236 for a PS4 Pro, and there is the possibility Gamestop may run a promo for additional value when trading in a used PS4 for a PS4 Pro.
I don't have a 4k TV, and I really don't care about that. I'm perfectly fine with 1080p gaming, which, it turns out, I've actually not even been really getting that. I've really been getting 900p gaming from the current generation. From what I can tell, the PS4 (with the caveat that game developers support it in their games) bring to me ACTUAL 1080p gaming on my 1080p TV at 60fps, rather than 30fps. It will allow increases (again, assuming the game developers support it in their games) to environmental details, number of rendered objects on screen, character model details, controller responsiveness, visual effects, and frame rate stability (i.e. I get 1080p at 60fps and it STAYS AT 60fps!). These are fairly significant improvements to the gaming experience, in my opinion, that are independent of 4k resolution, and, as many have pointed out, the jump from 1080p to 4k is less a differential than has been the jump from 480p or even 720p to 1080p. I do not believe my TV can do HDR, so I will be missing out on that feature. However, I still feel that in the features I would get, there is value in making the trade-up to the PS4 Pro.
My feeling why 1080p to 4k feels like less an improvement is because the difference in angular separation, for the same viewing distance, of the pixel between 1080p versus 4k is less than the case for 480p/720p versus 1080p. Part of this, I think, stems from the fact that we, nowadays, make the mistake of distinguishing resolution by numerical pixel count (which is an artifice of multiple factors) instead of by its original definition, from astronomy, which is the smallest angular separation that can exist between two points and still allow those two points to be visually resolved as being two distinct points. (This is the same misunderstanding that plagued the whole stink around Apple's whole Retina Display; the specific numerical pixel resolutions are the result of requiring pixels have an angular separation of no more than roughly 1 arcminute at a range of view distances of 3--5 feet for displays in a range of sizes from 13" to 27".) Also, and this may have more to do with it, perceptual increases tend to work on a logarithmic scale as opposed to a linear scale, so twice as much numerical size does not translate to twice as much perceptual size. For example, sound is measured in decibels, which is 10 times the base-10 logarithm of the power in watts divided by 10^(-12) watts. A sound that has twice the power only has an additive 10*log10(2) increase in its perceptual loudness. This is a substantial increase for extremely quiet sounds, but for loud sounds, it's marginal at best. To actually affect a proper doubling in the loudness, as measured in decibels, you would actually be squaring the power, not simply multiplying by 2.
Regardless, this is beside the point. My main point is that 4k resolution is simply one feature and not even the most important enhancement feature, in my opinion, that the more powerful hardware can afford. The many other effects that can be afforded by the hardware increase are more important, in my opinion, to increasing the gaming experience than simply having the exact same image that I have now but with more pixels (and HDR). But I will admit one thing, if I did not have trades of sufficient value that I could make, then, yes, I probably would not be buying the system; I would likely just stick with my PS4 until the next-next generation. If I didn't have a PS4 already, I probably would just wait until the XBox One Scorpio before making a final decision. But, the case is that I do have sufficient trade-in value, and I do see significant enhancements to the gaming experience, that I feel are more important than 4k resolution, being possible on the PS4 Pro. Therefore, I feel comfortable and within good reason to make the trade for the upgrade. One could make the argument "why not just wait until the XBox Scorpio and make the same trade?". The answer is because I am already invested in games on the PS4, and I don't have the money to spare repurchasing all my games for XBox Scorpio plus having to buy a new console, even with trade-in value.
I don't have a 4k TV, and I really don't care about that. I'm perfectly fine with 1080p gaming, which, it turns out, I've actually not even been really getting that. I've really been getting 900p gaming from the current generation. From what I can tell, the PS4 (with the caveat that game developers support it in their games) bring to me ACTUAL 1080p gaming on my 1080p TV at 60fps, rather than 30fps. It will allow increases (again, assuming the game developers support it in their games) to environmental details, number of rendered objects on screen, character model details, controller responsiveness, visual effects, and frame rate stability (i.e. I get 1080p at 60fps and it STAYS AT 60fps!). These are fairly significant improvements to the gaming experience, in my opinion, that are independent of 4k resolution, and, as many have pointed out, the jump from 1080p to 4k is less a differential than has been the jump from 480p or even 720p to 1080p. I do not believe my TV can do HDR, so I will be missing out on that feature. However, I still feel that in the features I would get, there is value in making the trade-up to the PS4 Pro.
My feeling why 1080p to 4k feels like less an improvement is because the difference in angular separation, for the same viewing distance, of the pixel between 1080p versus 4k is less than the case for 480p/720p versus 1080p. Part of this, I think, stems from the fact that we, nowadays, make the mistake of distinguishing resolution by numerical pixel count (which is an artifice of multiple factors) instead of by its original definition, from astronomy, which is the smallest angular separation that can exist between two points and still allow those two points to be visually resolved as being two distinct points. (This is the same misunderstanding that plagued the whole stink around Apple's whole Retina Display; the specific numerical pixel resolutions are the result of requiring pixels have an angular separation of no more than roughly 1 arcminute at a range of view distances of 3--5 feet for displays in a range of sizes from 13" to 27".) Also, and this may have more to do with it, perceptual increases tend to work on a logarithmic scale as opposed to a linear scale, so twice as much numerical size does not translate to twice as much perceptual size. For example, sound is measured in decibels, which is 10 times the base-10 logarithm of the power in watts divided by 10^(-12) watts. A sound that has twice the power only has an additive 10*log10(2) increase in its perceptual loudness. This is a substantial increase for extremely quiet sounds, but for loud sounds, it's marginal at best. To actually affect a proper doubling in the loudness, as measured in decibels, you would actually be squaring the power, not simply multiplying by 2.
Regardless, this is beside the point. My main point is that 4k resolution is simply one feature and not even the most important enhancement feature, in my opinion, that the more powerful hardware can afford. The many other effects that can be afforded by the hardware increase are more important, in my opinion, to increasing the gaming experience than simply having the exact same image that I have now but with more pixels (and HDR). But I will admit one thing, if I did not have trades of sufficient value that I could make, then, yes, I probably would not be buying the system; I would likely just stick with my PS4 until the next-next generation. If I didn't have a PS4 already, I probably would just wait until the XBox One Scorpio before making a final decision. But, the case is that I do have sufficient trade-in value, and I do see significant enhancements to the gaming experience, that I feel are more important than 4k resolution, being possible on the PS4 Pro. Therefore, I feel comfortable and within good reason to make the trade for the upgrade. One could make the argument "why not just wait until the XBox Scorpio and make the same trade?". The answer is because I am already invested in games on the PS4, and I don't have the money to spare repurchasing all my games for XBox Scorpio plus having to buy a new console, even with trade-in value.
At this point, if this is the wave of the future that Sony & MS are going to steer towards, then I'll be skipping the PS4 Pro initially (And the XBox Scorpio, too). Like many others, I don't have a 4K TV (yet), but the main reason is more that they seem to be setting the precedent that the next incremental iteration of the PS4/XBox One console will be out in just 2-3 more years.
If that's the case, then just like I don't upgrade my phone every time the next incremental upgrade is announced, I won't be upgrading my console with every single increment. There's nothing announced on the PS4 Pro that I absolutely want/need right now, so I'll just wait until its specs are more in line with my technological desires.... or rather, vice versa.
If that's the case, then just like I don't upgrade my phone every time the next incremental upgrade is announced, I won't be upgrading my console with every single increment. There's nothing announced on the PS4 Pro that I absolutely want/need right now, so I'll just wait until its specs are more in line with my technological desires.... or rather, vice versa.
Reminds me of online ads for monitors that try to convey how much richer their color is compared to the one you're looking at the picture of them on by showing purple-and-orange pictures of sunsets.
This ps4 pro thing is not so bad, for those that don't own a ps4 yet at least. I do have a 4k TV and i was planning on buying the console anyway. I probably would have been pissed if i bought one and not long after this came out. In my eyes one of the good things about consoles is their stability, you bought one and it will last you unil next gen, now they started doing this shit.
I came here to post the same thing.Kiall said:
Kind of looks like it is. At lest it had a pretty good run but where's that physical book compilation of the strips that was hinted at years ago? Cause I'd certainly buy one.