8 of the Most Evil Fictional Leaders
- Thread starter n0e
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Seriously? The White witch, that limp dicked idiot from Hunger Games and a Walking Dead villain make it onto the list before Horus the Warmaster or Darth Vader? Seriously nOe? SERIOUSLY?!
The Governor has made several other lists, but he always falls in the lower 50s. Horus the Warmaster definitely deserved a spot on here. Also, Andrew Ryan is a great antagonist but I really hesitate to label him as a straight up villain... I guess when I think of 'villain' I would have gone with Atlas, who was also a leader.Silentpony said:
OT: I suspect Sauron made the list because he's more well-known than Morgoth, but I actually truly believe him to be a superior villain, so good on that. But no Liquid Snake? Oh well.
I'm not sure that Cthulhu should be on this. It ... is not really evil, or good, or amoral, or immoral, or subject to any form of morality even remotely intelligible to human beings. Is a volcano evil? Or the wind? Or Gravity? How can morality apply to such a being?
Okay n0e, we've all decided you need to redo the list. Get in Horus the Warmaster, drop Andrew Ryan, Cthulhu(who isn't really evil as literally can't give a shit) and the White Queen. Also consider Kefka, Vader and maybe Donald Trump.n0e said:
C'mon, how could you skip the most charismatic and manipulative leader in all of video games?
I mean who wouldn't vote for him? Not like they'd have a choice anyways...
I mean who wouldn't vote for him? Not like they'd have a choice anyways...
Surely evil implies intent, and I thought the whole deal with Cthulhu and other eldritch abominations was that they warped reality and the minds of insignificant mortals, simply by existing? And I'd hardly call Andrew Ryan evil: misguided, overly idealistic, but not evil.
I'm sorry, but I've been conditioned to fanatically support the Messiah and shout appropriate lines whenever he's mentioned.
KANE LIVES IN DEATH!!!ShakerSilver said:C'mon, how could you skip the most charismatic and manipulative leader in all of video games?
I mean who wouldn't vote for him? Not like they'd have a choice anyways...
I'm sorry, but I've been conditioned to fanatically support the Messiah and shout appropriate lines whenever he's mentioned.
1) Don't know
2) No
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) Yes, but only if you factor in her actions in Charn
6) Don't know
7) Yes, but Morgoth would be a better choice
8) I guess, but my understanding that it's more 'passive evil' than 'active evil', so to speak
Horus shouldn't make the list, as his intentions were noble at the start, and were twisted by Chaos. Likewise, Darth Vader - he got a redemption, was seduced by the Dark Side, etc.
Also, Liquid Snake. I wouldn't call him evil, he's more an anarchist than anything else.
2) No
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) Yes, but only if you factor in her actions in Charn
6) Don't know
7) Yes, but Morgoth would be a better choice
8) I guess, but my understanding that it's more 'passive evil' than 'active evil', so to speak
Snow is definately evil, and Jadis destroyed an entire world rather than bearing to lose her crown, then screwed up an entirely separate world until the Pevensies showed up. She's also the setting's analogical stand-in for the Serpent, if not Satan (though I'd say Tash gets that position). I don't agree with Phillip though, as he's too complex a character to be called "evil."Silentpony said:
Horus shouldn't make the list, as his intentions were noble at the start, and were twisted by Chaos. Likewise, Darth Vader - he got a redemption, was seduced by the Dark Side, etc.
I actually consider Morgoth superior to Sauron. Sauron is evil because...well, just because. He's a great villain in the adversarial sense, especially in the films (the idea of the ever-present eye), but as a character, he's got no depth. Morgoth is far more interesting IMO, because he has a clear descent into villany, and pursues his own ideology against the Valar. There's far more thematic richness to him as well.Sheo_Dagana said:
Also, Liquid Snake. I wouldn't call him evil, he's more an anarchist than anything else.
I wouldn't really call Kane evil. Amoral, certainly, but he mellows out towards the end of the series. He exploits the tiberium situation on Earth, but even if it's just to leave the planet, he provides the world's salvation as well.ShakerSilver said:C'mon, how could you skip the most charismatic and manipulative leader in all of video games?
I mean who wouldn't vote for him? Not like they'd have a choice anyways...
I should point out that the guy from #8 is more closely based on Libya's Kaddafi (sp?), who did crazy shit you couldn't make up.
...How did Andrew Ryan make the cut? Ryan is many things but "most evil leader" is not among them. Misguided, apathetic, and self-righteous, sure, but most evil? He's not even a heavy hitter within the context of his own franchise. The most evil thing you can put on his head was the creation of the Little Sisters, and Sofia Lamb did much the same and added trying to brainwash and weaponize her daughter for her fanatical cult on top of that. And Zachary Comstock took that part a step further by trying to brainwash and weaponize his daughter for an assault on the rest of the world. Outside of that franchise...well, how the hell did a Bioshock villain even get on that list when they have to compete with the likes of Ramsay Snow and Joffery Baratheon (Game of Thrones), Ozai (Avatar: The Last Airbender), the Major (Hellsing), Lord Marshall Zylaw (Chronicles of Riddick), Voldemort and Dolores Umbridge (Harry Potter), Randall Flagg (various Steven King works) and so many others?
Seconded.Asita said:
Disagree there. I wouldn't call Ozai evil per se. He's no worse than the two fire lords that preceeded him, and while he's willing to do horrific things (i.e. erradicating the entire Earth Kingdom), he does truly believe it's for a better world.Asita said:
Seconded. Heck, through in Bellatrix as well.Asita said:
Disagree with Horus, might be able to second Abaddon though.Rastrelly said:
He'd probably make the cut, but Mephisto probably gets the rank of 'most evil,' what with being the Lord of Hatred. Also, I'll give a shoutout to Adria, even if she isn't a leader. Demons are slaves to their own natures (like angels), but Adria willingly chose her path, sacrificing her own daughter included).Rastrelly said:
Not sure if he counts. It's up to the reader's interpretation, but as I saw it, "Big Brother" was just a construct for the Party, same way they likely constructed, same way as Emmanuel Goldstein is likely constructed as the boogyman the Party can blame everything for. I could nominate O'Brien though, even though he's more a Party lackey.Rastrelly said:
Maybe. Haven't read much of Dune, but while he's brutal in his attempt to erradicate House Atreides, it's an attempt that has the blessing of the Pardishah Emperor. Harkonnen is more systemic of the Imperium's bickering houses, even if he's no saint himself.Rastrelly said:
Or I think. Like I said, not that familiar with the Dune universe.
Ahem:Hawki said:
And then of course there's the whole "I'm going to raze the entire continent" thing from the finale, which he seems positively gleeful about. Throughout the series there's no indication that Ozai cares for anyone but himself. Even Azula only seems to be "liked" to the extent that she is useful to him. He tried to disinherit his elder brother as soon as word reached him that his nephew had died, had no qualms with the order to kill his son, killed his father, let his wife take the blame for it, mutilated, disgraced, and banished the same son he was convinced to spare for both daring to speak out of turn (once) and erring towards filial piety rather than fighting his own father (which Ozai viewed as inexcusable weakness), jumped at the idea of wiping out the Earth Kingdom entirely, and was even disdainful of the Avatar's decision to spare his own life (which he again viewed as disgusting weakness).
Now, does that make him "Most Evil Fictional Leaders" material? Eh, maybe not, but I would maintain that Ozai is much closer to that mark than Andrew Ryan is.
And that somehow makes him not evil?Hawki said:
As for Baron Harkonnen, well, the guy was more than happy to eradicate the Atreides, his mole in the House Atreides was recruited by having his wife kidnapped and he was promised they would release her after the coup (of course, she turns out to be dead) and Baron Harkonnen is, among other things, a pederast who fancies his own nephew.
Heh, shows how long it's been since I've seen Avatar.
To address RealRT, if a character is doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, then I wouldn't necessarily call them evil per se. But as for Asita's points, some of which I'd forgotten about (e.g. snatching the throne, and being willing to kill Zuko), then, yeah, Ozai does fall into "evil" territory.
To address RealRT, if a character is doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, then I wouldn't necessarily call them evil per se. But as for Asita's points, some of which I'd forgotten about (e.g. snatching the throne, and being willing to kill Zuko), then, yeah, Ozai does fall into "evil" territory.