Adult Themes
- Thread starter Sean Sands
- Start date
I think Mass Effect was a step in the right direction. It wasn't just sex for the sake of sex like Leisure Suit Larry, but it was a genuine emotional connection that built up as the game progressed. What games need is characters that have more complex emotions and then introduce it as 'making love' rather than a 'quickie behind the bike sheds'.
On the other hand, I think the Grand Theft Auto DLC pack was a step in the right direction when they showed a penis. It was shocking and genuinely funny. More importantly, the lack of massive news coverage shows that nudity can be (if you'll excuse the pun) tackled in a video game.
And as for Jade Raymond, yes she is attractive. And she has an attractive voice. And it's surely not our fault that she says ass twice every time she mentions her game.
On the other hand, I think the Grand Theft Auto DLC pack was a step in the right direction when they showed a penis. It was shocking and genuinely funny. More importantly, the lack of massive news coverage shows that nudity can be (if you'll excuse the pun) tackled in a video game.
And as for Jade Raymond, yes she is attractive. And she has an attractive voice. And it's surely not our fault that she says ass twice every time she mentions her game.
I really liked this article. I agree with all its points.
I think that part of the problem is that games are just now able to provide characters that are complex enough to even have sexual interests.
but yeah, this is a pretty much untouched narrative tool that games just haven't taken advantage off, beyond old school "beat up street gang to save your girlfriend" kind of ways.
I think that part of the problem is that games are just now able to provide characters that are complex enough to even have sexual interests.
but yeah, this is a pretty much untouched narrative tool that games just haven't taken advantage off, beyond old school "beat up street gang to save your girlfriend" kind of ways.
I think the author is overlooking quite a bit here. Sexual tension in games isn't new or novel. It was around in SNES JRPGs, and there was no great outcry from parents. On the other hand, while us lesser humans only smell new plastic when we peel the shrink wrap off a game, the media can smell pornography underneath it all, and when the media catches wind of pornography, they'll start lambasting the studio for the lulz.
So really, we can't blame the media or parents entirely for this one. You can argue all day about how pornography isn't a big deal (and, in my mind, you'd be right), but you can't really argue that the things that the media or parents complain about aren't pornography, however soft it might be.
So really, we can't blame the media or parents entirely for this one. You can argue all day about how pornography isn't a big deal (and, in my mind, you'd be right), but you can't really argue that the things that the media or parents complain about aren't pornography, however soft it might be.
I admit I giggled at the word titillation.
I shall hang my head in shame.
I can't help but wonder if they cuddled after the scene was over.
I shall hang my head in shame.
I agree, I actually found myself aww'ing at a few points of my characters' relationship.scnj said:
I can't help but wonder if they cuddled after the scene was over.
Dealing with sex in a mature fashion comes up against the enormous social taboo that sex is a mildly disgusting process necessary for the making of children, and against the flip side of that in which it is a sin partaken in casual contexts with huge numbers of people.
So long as half a nipple is shown anywhere in gaming people disconnected from the culture will decry immoral pornography. In some ways that just increases the temptation, the thrill of something improper. It's part of why schoolgirls are so popular. [http://etc.dal.ca/noj/volume2/articles/14_Durham1.pdf]
So long as half a nipple is shown anywhere in gaming people disconnected from the culture will decry immoral pornography. In some ways that just increases the temptation, the thrill of something improper. It's part of why schoolgirls are so popular. [http://etc.dal.ca/noj/volume2/articles/14_Durham1.pdf]
Don't worry, I laughed at the angina bit, it's fun being imature. Seriously though, the media is also part of the problem. As far as I know San Andreas was MA15 or even 18+ in most counties so the people playing it should already know about sex. It also has crazy amounts of violence and yet the media didn't complain about that. Sex in games just makes good stories, hopefully the media will get over it just like they have gotten over extreme violence in games.AmrasCalmacil said:
I failed to gather anything from this article other than that Jade Raymond is hot and that your were a college drop out. Not to be harsh but, what were you trying to achieve with mentioning these things?
You can rest assured that 80% of the readers have initiated a google image search for 'jade raymond.'
You can rest assured that 80% of the readers have initiated a google image search for 'jade raymond.'
They do what? Show a penis? Here's a news story about it. [http://getsatisfaction.com/eonline/topics/video_shows_penis_in_grand_theft_auto_iv_the_lost_and_damned_expansion] There's no pictures, but there is a link in there to a video featuring the penis. Just pointing that out so I don't get in any moderator trouble.JimmyBassatti said:They do? The fuck? Source?scnj said:I think Mass Effect was a step in the right direction. It wasn't just sex for the sake of sex like Leisure Suit Larry, but it was a genuine emotional connection that built up as the game progressed. What games need is characters that have more complex emotions and then introduce it as 'making love' rather than a 'quickie behind the bike sheds'.
On the other hand, I think the Grand Theft Auto DLC pack was a step in the right direction when they showed a penis. It was shocking and genuinely funny. More importantly, the lack of massive news coverage shows that nudity can be (if you'll excuse the pun) tackled in a video game.
And as for Jade Raymond, yes she is attractive. And she has an attractive voice. And it's surely not our fault that she says ass twice every time she mentions her game.
You do know that you can read beyond the first three paragraphs.raunchysandwich said:
But yeah, I completely agree with your article. There is two issues here. One, the image of the community, and two, sexuality in games. The former is sadly hard to change. Most of the vocal majority is made of 13 y.o. kids that will nothing have more constructive than "lol jade raymond vag". So either the mature gamers get more vocal about those issues or we just wait for them to grow older and, hopefully, more mature.
As for the later, like you mentioned in the article, it's a matter of companies exploring mature sexuality like other media does and defending their point against people or other medias that may be attacking them for what they did, pegging them as virtual pornographers.
Hmm, I have the nude mod for Fallout 3, felt it wasn't rather odd that everyone in the Wasteland should have the exact same underpants and vest as me.
They've got the parts they should have when wearing no clothing, now.
On the subject of Fallout 3 and games needing to be more real about sex like other art forms:
I found it odd how I'd go around raider hideouts in Fallout 3 to find not a hint of any "degenerate" activity beyond the comical disembowelment of random people.
With an upgrade from a mod known as FOOK, there are now "rape victims" laying around in raider bases, naked and dead, blood pooling around their unfortunate figures.
It really sets the tone much more when you walk up to a couch surrounded by empty whiskey bottles and find a pretty, dead, girl laying in a pool of her own blood, no title given to her save for "rape victim".
It also helps make the raiders much more "human", in that you can quite honestly say you hate them as "people" for raping people, not just because they're cartoon villains who gut people because... I guess, they just want to.
Of course, that does little to make up for the simplification of Nova the prostitute's services to "sleep in the same bad as me"... "you just gave me money and your character gained nothing".
Not even a black screen with her voice actress fake moaning, she just gets up and walks away.
It's the most sterile instance of "sex" I've ever seen in a video game.
They've got the parts they should have when wearing no clothing, now.
On the subject of Fallout 3 and games needing to be more real about sex like other art forms:
I found it odd how I'd go around raider hideouts in Fallout 3 to find not a hint of any "degenerate" activity beyond the comical disembowelment of random people.
With an upgrade from a mod known as FOOK, there are now "rape victims" laying around in raider bases, naked and dead, blood pooling around their unfortunate figures.
It really sets the tone much more when you walk up to a couch surrounded by empty whiskey bottles and find a pretty, dead, girl laying in a pool of her own blood, no title given to her save for "rape victim".
It also helps make the raiders much more "human", in that you can quite honestly say you hate them as "people" for raping people, not just because they're cartoon villains who gut people because... I guess, they just want to.
Of course, that does little to make up for the simplification of Nova the prostitute's services to "sleep in the same bad as me"... "you just gave me money and your character gained nothing".
Not even a black screen with her voice actress fake moaning, she just gets up and walks away.
It's the most sterile instance of "sex" I've ever seen in a video game.
Eh, for arguments sake:
[Anti-hero]
Sex has it's place; well the hell outside of video games. Why anyone feels the need to have sex in a video game is beyond me. Quite frankly, I'd rather have a game that the only objective is to kill those things, beat that dude in a race, jump across these platforms without getting hit by walking mushrooms, make sure the zombies don't get to my house through the use of many herbs, solve a particularly mind racking puzzle, etc.
What I'm saying here is, there isn't any need for sex in video games, and it usually just ends up as a useless side story that's ridiculously underdeveloped and immature as a result. For sex to be put in effectively it would have to be the prominent theme of a game, and then in that case, is it any better than a pornographic movie?
If you're sole intention of the use of sex in games is to make sexual maturity on the internet commonplace, then you're fighting an uphill battle...straight up the side of a cliff. Made of shale. With saw blades whirring at 90000 rpm spaced roughly a half a centimeter apart.
Secondly, sex does not define people. Or characterize them. It is another characteristic of someone sort of like their religious views, but it isn't the only thing that characterizes them. I know some people that are into some pretty kinky things, and you wouldn't have the slightest idea they were unless they told you. They're perfectly reasonable people that like to release their tension through somewhat devious sexual acts. Sex is fun, I'll let everyone come to grips with that on their own terms, but it really is. It provides a sense of release that (for the most part) is enjoyed with another consenting individual.
And for the fact that it's enjoyed with someone else, while video games are (historically) known for being played by yourself, or a group of friends, I'll stand on the side of this argument that there's little place in games for sex. Would you want to sit and play a game with sexual tension sitting there with "the guys"? Or would you want to play something like that by yourself? Would you feel inappropriate or awkward for playing it by yourself? These are the questions that beg to be asked.
[/Anti-hero]
[Anti-hero]
Sex has it's place; well the hell outside of video games. Why anyone feels the need to have sex in a video game is beyond me. Quite frankly, I'd rather have a game that the only objective is to kill those things, beat that dude in a race, jump across these platforms without getting hit by walking mushrooms, make sure the zombies don't get to my house through the use of many herbs, solve a particularly mind racking puzzle, etc.
What I'm saying here is, there isn't any need for sex in video games, and it usually just ends up as a useless side story that's ridiculously underdeveloped and immature as a result. For sex to be put in effectively it would have to be the prominent theme of a game, and then in that case, is it any better than a pornographic movie?
If you're sole intention of the use of sex in games is to make sexual maturity on the internet commonplace, then you're fighting an uphill battle...straight up the side of a cliff. Made of shale. With saw blades whirring at 90000 rpm spaced roughly a half a centimeter apart.
I'd like to talk about these two snippets really quickly, for the first part, why is it necessary that gaming has more good sexual tension? And how is it that an affair or a "should we? no we shouldn't" relationship would provide that "good" that you're talking about? You bring some valid points to the table that some sort of tension would bring more to a story but there's a very thin line to show what you're talking about. (I do have some other points about this, e.g. how to put sexual tension effectively in without it becoming "pornographic in nature", but for arguments sake I'll leave that out).Sean Sands said:
Secondly, sex does not define people. Or characterize them. It is another characteristic of someone sort of like their religious views, but it isn't the only thing that characterizes them. I know some people that are into some pretty kinky things, and you wouldn't have the slightest idea they were unless they told you. They're perfectly reasonable people that like to release their tension through somewhat devious sexual acts. Sex is fun, I'll let everyone come to grips with that on their own terms, but it really is. It provides a sense of release that (for the most part) is enjoyed with another consenting individual.
And for the fact that it's enjoyed with someone else, while video games are (historically) known for being played by yourself, or a group of friends, I'll stand on the side of this argument that there's little place in games for sex. Would you want to sit and play a game with sexual tension sitting there with "the guys"? Or would you want to play something like that by yourself? Would you feel inappropriate or awkward for playing it by yourself? These are the questions that beg to be asked.
[/Anti-hero]
No offense Sean, but I think your wrong.
I say this because I think people have the wrong idea about maturity when it comes to sex. The entire idea of sexual maturity is to be able to fully understand the repercussions of having sex and adult relationships, including being able to accept casual sex as casual sex as much as anything. The big reason why "Jailbait" is off limits is because it's very easy for a teenager to take a casual sexual encounter as being something more than that. A lot of the girls for example who have sex with older men expect them to love and take care of them, when for the guy it might just be a one night stand. Not to mention the fact that an unexpected pregnancy at 15 or 16 can ruin the lives of both participants.
BOTH genders are into tacky, wild sex. Actually girls are MORE into it than guys as you'll find that despite being publically a lot more demure in many cases, you'll notice that most material created by women, for women involves sex. Despite the stereotype of romance novels and such being mostly emotional, that is far from the truth, and honestly there are entire sections in most stores dedicated to this stuff. Not to mention the entire paranormal romance genere that has been flourishing for decades, and currently climaxing in the "Twilight" series of movies. Your basically dealing with S&M and domination combined with monsters. Rather than Twilight I tend to point to Anita Blake as pretty much the defining character/series of the genere.
Simply put sex is fun, fantastic, wild, and oftentimes campy sex of a type you typically can't get in real life is even more fun. Nothing immature about it, it's just how we're wired. The only maturity issue involved is how you deal with it.
The game industry suffers from a lack of nuts, simply put it would love to be able to produce games for a growing audience of adults with mature desires and expectations. Generation X (the generation that made gaming big) is growing up after all. The problem is of course that we still have The Baby Boomers holding the reigns of society, and in some cases THEIR parents are still kicking around and calling the shots due to current medical technology. The whole issue of mature games is largely based around the perception that games are for children, and that mature gamers are some wierd fringe group (which to be fair as the first ones arrived was probably true, but it has changed due to the passage of time, and the group will continue to grow).
The problem is that the game industry is not willing to organized based on anything but profits, and launch their own combined billion dollar offensive against the goverment. Namely because producers want a return on their investment as soon as possible and do not think for the long term. Given the fact that there are plenty of sheeple out there who will buy censored games and such, there is no real reason for them to go on the offensive for the sake of free speech and creativity. This is how the Democrats can launch a multi-pronged offensive against games, targeting them not only for content, but also claiming that they are responsible fo health issues and anything else they choose. The real reason of course being increased goverment control over free speech, but the Video Game industry pretty much hangs up a giant sign saying they are the limp wristed handhold that won't fight back in any effective fashion.
This is however getting away from the central point that mature content is inherantly good. It appeals to people, it captures the imagination, and honestly it's powerful escapism and at the end of the day that's what it's all about.
Mass Effect got the criticism it did not because of the level of content but because it had the misfortune of being released at a time when we were seeing the right wing (which has it's own censorship proponents, but mostly talks cr@p and doesn't try and do anything) losing steam due to a long and unpopular war (this is not time for a political analysis). Politicians like Hillary Clinton have been using video games to try and get more power for the federal goverment, she was a BIG part of the hot coffee contreversy and was actually running for President as a serious contender (and wound up with a cabinet position even after she lost). There were far worse games in terms of sex and violence, heck you could have sex with a sheep in "Arcanum". You could have a gay or lesbian marriage in Fallout 2 and then sell your spouse into slavery (and even go around shopping for the best deal). Mass Effect wasn't "intense" it was simply the victim of being the game that was there when a rising political organization was looking to get an early start on it's agenda.
MANY people are going to disagree simply because I'm picking on the left (I'm used to it), but it's pretty much true.
I'll also go one better, I'm not even sure if Mass Effect qualified for a PG or PG-13 rating based on it's sex scenes. There wasn't even any PG-13 breast nudity. An R/M rating can pretty much do anything except show actual penetration (though it can imply it). It's just the game industry does not want to fight this effectively. Heck, the entire media industry seems reluctant to fight to defend the precedents they helped establish, though video games are so far the worst.
Also note that I said scenes (plural). In the course of Mass Effect there are three potential sex scenes. The Ashley or Liara options are two (and as we know the latter one can go lesbian), but there is also an Asari consort that you can effectively "force" to have sex with you if your on the renegade path. None of these scenes show much though they make what is going on pretty apparent. If anything the Asari consort bit is probably what should be inspiring the most contreversy due to how it goes down if you do that. I won't break it all down, but honestly it seems 99.9% of the people out there who have opinions on the sex scenes in Mass Effect never bloody played the game. I mean totally clueless, if I was going to be making an attack on the game for the other side I would not make the stand on the Ashley/Liara scenes. NOT that they should succeed anyway.
I say this because I think people have the wrong idea about maturity when it comes to sex. The entire idea of sexual maturity is to be able to fully understand the repercussions of having sex and adult relationships, including being able to accept casual sex as casual sex as much as anything. The big reason why "Jailbait" is off limits is because it's very easy for a teenager to take a casual sexual encounter as being something more than that. A lot of the girls for example who have sex with older men expect them to love and take care of them, when for the guy it might just be a one night stand. Not to mention the fact that an unexpected pregnancy at 15 or 16 can ruin the lives of both participants.
BOTH genders are into tacky, wild sex. Actually girls are MORE into it than guys as you'll find that despite being publically a lot more demure in many cases, you'll notice that most material created by women, for women involves sex. Despite the stereotype of romance novels and such being mostly emotional, that is far from the truth, and honestly there are entire sections in most stores dedicated to this stuff. Not to mention the entire paranormal romance genere that has been flourishing for decades, and currently climaxing in the "Twilight" series of movies. Your basically dealing with S&M and domination combined with monsters. Rather than Twilight I tend to point to Anita Blake as pretty much the defining character/series of the genere.
Simply put sex is fun, fantastic, wild, and oftentimes campy sex of a type you typically can't get in real life is even more fun. Nothing immature about it, it's just how we're wired. The only maturity issue involved is how you deal with it.
The game industry suffers from a lack of nuts, simply put it would love to be able to produce games for a growing audience of adults with mature desires and expectations. Generation X (the generation that made gaming big) is growing up after all. The problem is of course that we still have The Baby Boomers holding the reigns of society, and in some cases THEIR parents are still kicking around and calling the shots due to current medical technology. The whole issue of mature games is largely based around the perception that games are for children, and that mature gamers are some wierd fringe group (which to be fair as the first ones arrived was probably true, but it has changed due to the passage of time, and the group will continue to grow).
The problem is that the game industry is not willing to organized based on anything but profits, and launch their own combined billion dollar offensive against the goverment. Namely because producers want a return on their investment as soon as possible and do not think for the long term. Given the fact that there are plenty of sheeple out there who will buy censored games and such, there is no real reason for them to go on the offensive for the sake of free speech and creativity. This is how the Democrats can launch a multi-pronged offensive against games, targeting them not only for content, but also claiming that they are responsible fo health issues and anything else they choose. The real reason of course being increased goverment control over free speech, but the Video Game industry pretty much hangs up a giant sign saying they are the limp wristed handhold that won't fight back in any effective fashion.
This is however getting away from the central point that mature content is inherantly good. It appeals to people, it captures the imagination, and honestly it's powerful escapism and at the end of the day that's what it's all about.
Mass Effect got the criticism it did not because of the level of content but because it had the misfortune of being released at a time when we were seeing the right wing (which has it's own censorship proponents, but mostly talks cr@p and doesn't try and do anything) losing steam due to a long and unpopular war (this is not time for a political analysis). Politicians like Hillary Clinton have been using video games to try and get more power for the federal goverment, she was a BIG part of the hot coffee contreversy and was actually running for President as a serious contender (and wound up with a cabinet position even after she lost). There were far worse games in terms of sex and violence, heck you could have sex with a sheep in "Arcanum". You could have a gay or lesbian marriage in Fallout 2 and then sell your spouse into slavery (and even go around shopping for the best deal). Mass Effect wasn't "intense" it was simply the victim of being the game that was there when a rising political organization was looking to get an early start on it's agenda.
MANY people are going to disagree simply because I'm picking on the left (I'm used to it), but it's pretty much true.
I'll also go one better, I'm not even sure if Mass Effect qualified for a PG or PG-13 rating based on it's sex scenes. There wasn't even any PG-13 breast nudity. An R/M rating can pretty much do anything except show actual penetration (though it can imply it). It's just the game industry does not want to fight this effectively. Heck, the entire media industry seems reluctant to fight to defend the precedents they helped establish, though video games are so far the worst.
Also note that I said scenes (plural). In the course of Mass Effect there are three potential sex scenes. The Ashley or Liara options are two (and as we know the latter one can go lesbian), but there is also an Asari consort that you can effectively "force" to have sex with you if your on the renegade path. None of these scenes show much though they make what is going on pretty apparent. If anything the Asari consort bit is probably what should be inspiring the most contreversy due to how it goes down if you do that. I won't break it all down, but honestly it seems 99.9% of the people out there who have opinions on the sex scenes in Mass Effect never bloody played the game. I mean totally clueless, if I was going to be making an attack on the game for the other side I would not make the stand on the Ashley/Liara scenes. NOT that they should succeed anyway.
Child wants gamebjj hero said:
Game seller won't sell game
Child whines, and whines and eventually screams profanities at the person.
Child is now banned from store.
Child fully believes he/she is innocent, and that the game selling person (here on called bill) is totally at fault and singled him out.
child Whines to parents about games
Parents think wonderfully of the time the child reaches 16 so they can boot him out...
Child starts screaming profanities at parents.
Parents, spoiling their abomination of a child cannot ignore their childs cries and buy the game
-------------*Later That Day*-----------
Child installs game on computer, and plugs in microphone.
Child turns on voice chat in Team Fortress 2
Child gets ass kicked in game, and hits the "turn on microphone button"
Child screams at everyone to stop using hacks, saying that he ****ed everyones mothers and that (my favourite, and I quote) That "Their un-erect pee pee is bigger then your hard pee pee" (not making that one up folks)
Child dies again in game, and screams their high pitched lack of balls dropping scream of ****ing annoyance.
Server everyone in server attempt to mute child.
Not everyone in server knows that if you open the steam overlay and hit players theirs a option to mute a individual player.
Most people leave server, and vouge to become a a child killer.
----------------------------*13 years after*---------------------------
The worst fear of all of man kind comes true.
The once-child procreates.
3 spoiled loud children and 1 annoying "adult" that still acts like a child wander cyberspace.
System continues, until the majority of the normal population finds a mute button, they all get banned or the normals become homicidal killers that will enforce darwinian law upon the idiots.
Moral being that this will not stop the ones you have to worry about, this will only affect the ones you don't have to worry about like the mature ones, that know it's just a game and it's meant to be fun not and if you die then no worries you can just try harder in the next life it'll just bug the crowd of people who are mature ... kinda like most DRM now adays *cough* Spore *cough* StarCraft 2*cough*
AND just a thought, that society is sheltering the idiots that nature should have picked out by now, IMO I think we could de-evolve because of it... XD ______________________________________________________________________________________________
Back on topic, I think that expressing sexuality would make the games more imersive, but it just so long as you don't present visuals, or sound effects or waiting 40 minute for them to finish before you moving onto the next task at hand.. like saving the world, it could work
A great example of which could be Mass Effect, in the game it required you t opay attention to certain cahrecters, to sort of know what they are thinking, and then acting on it (in mass effect that'd be getting human lesbian *** on with a alien XD)
I think that Mass Effect 2 will be a good step in that direction, and maybe game companies will pick up on the message that sex as a charecter development tool is not such a bad thing, and they shouldn't have to hide in a bomb shelter, if they think the press are going to freak out at it.
But game developers have a very good reason to freak out at it, hell look at the shit Fallout 3 caught just because there is a prostitute, that offers sex. When all you do is that she follows you up to the room, and lies down on the bed in a sleeping position, and the only option you have is "Rest".
And because of the risk of fallout from the media and lawsuits over nothing. Companies will be very cautious when stepping into the realm of sexuality.
Good article made some valid points, and it was a good way to kick off my morning with thought n such and yes I know my answer was long winded.
Shouldn't matter...especially since AC1 was so disappointing...so much potential and it all fell short...scnj said:And as for Jade Raymond, yes she is attractive. And she has an attractive voice. And it's surely not our fault that she says ass twice every time she mentions her game.