Adult Themes

[Xvito]

It's too bad they don't have articles like this over at Gametrailers as well...

Also, intercourse in games seems rather pointless to me.

 

[unangbangkay]

This sort of thing happens regularly in the context of visual novels, eroge, and so-called "dating sims." While they barely qualify as games by many standards and are more often than not actual pornography, they much more regularly than any other part of the game industry tackle sex in meaningful, or at least contextually-justified ways.

It's a disgrace that gamers and developers seem so unwilling to acknowledge their existence.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

So long as half a nipple is shown anywhere in gaming people disconnected from the culture will decry immoral pornography. In some ways that just increases the temptation, the thrill of something improper. It's part of why schoolgirls are so popular. [http://etc.dal.ca/noj/volume2/articles/14_Durham1.pdf]

Doing something illegal/immoral/fattening has always been more "thrilling", which is why the breaking down of some barriers has actually caused worsening behaviour.

It doesn't help that the computer game fraternity lives on the pubescent boys for it's livelihood.

The problem with that being that perfectly reasonable descriptions of sex, or even descriptions where sex "could" be said to be taking place, causes MASS MEDIA OUTRAGE.

Schoolgirls, nurses, teachers, firemen, policewomen can be equally as dull, or as interesting as they can be sexualised. The problem with the media is that they can sell FAR more with the latter than with the two former images. And that's what kills off any adult discussion about it, because WE MUST PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THIS FILTH, just as their children are playing about with the filth they haven't been told about.

 

[Nutcase]

Eh, for arguments sake:

[Anti-hero]

Sex has it's place; well the hell outside of video games. Why anyone feels the need to have sex in a video game is beyond me. Quite frankly, I'd rather have a game that the only objective is to kill those things, beat that dude in a race, jump across these platforms without getting hit by walking mushrooms, make sure the zombies don't get to my house through the use of many herbs, solve a particularly mind racking puzzle, etc.

What I'm saying here is, there isn't any need for sex in video games, and it usually just ends up as a useless side story that's ridiculously underdeveloped and immature as a result.

That's an argument against "serious" plot in general - and I mostly agree with it. Overemphasis on story and trying to turn games into movies tends to turn them into shit. But as long as you are going to be heavy on plot and/or characters, you can have sexuality in there as well.

For sex to be put in effectively it would have to be the prominent theme of a game,

You offer no argument for this, possibly because none exists. It's just as false as saying that putting playable Nazis in a game necessarily makes them the plot element that must be highlighted, demonized, re-demonized, and distanced from as if the entire audience were dumb fucks with no sense of morality or history whatsoever. Sex is just one of many plot and characterization elements. It can be used effectively or badly.

And for the fact that it's enjoyed with someone else, while video games are (historically) known for being played by yourself, or a group of friends, I'll stand on the side of this argument that there's little place in games for sex. Would you want to sit and play a game with sexual tension sitting there with "the guys"? Or would you want to play something like that by yourself? Would you feel inappropriate or awkward for playing it by yourself? These are the questions that beg to be asked.

The answers to these questions are blindingly obvious. Of course I don't want to play a romantic game sitting with "the guys". I also don't want to play FEAR sitting with "the guys" in a well-lit room with the sound turned down. Why would I voluntarily eviscerate the game like that?

 

[Doug]

The problem with that being that perfectly reasonable descriptions of sex, or even descriptions where sex "could" be said to be taking place, causes MASS MEDIA OUTRAGE.

Schoolgirls, nurses, teachers, firemen, policewomen can be equally as dull, or as interesting as they can be sexualised. The problem with the media is that they can sell FAR more with the latter than with the two former images. And that's what kills off any adult discussion about it, because WE MUST PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THIS FILTH, just as their children are playing about with the filth they haven't been told about.

This is probably the main problem - I'm sure everyone heard about Fox news, Mass Effect, and the ridiculous 'Sex Box' interview.

 

[cobra_ky]

the question is why games, as an artistic medium, should be incapable of dealing with sex in a tasteful and mature way, when other media like books and movies have successfully done so for decades.

 

[randommaster]

Dealing with sex in a mature fashion comes up against the enormous social taboo that sex is a mildly disgusting process necessary for the making of children, and against the flip side of that in which it is a sin partaken in casual contexts with huge numbers of people.

So long as half a nipple is shown anywhere in gaming people disconnected from the culture will decry immoral pornography. In some ways that just increases the temptation, the thrill of something improper. It's part of why schoolgirls are so popular. [http://etc.dal.ca/noj/volume2/articles/14_Durham1.pdf]

I am afraid to click that link...

Don't be. It leads to a discussion on how society is getting girls involved in looking attractive at younger and younger ages.

I was afraid that it would lead to this site [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage] and make me lose half the day.

 

[Takoto]

You know, perhaps I'm blind, but I never understood why there was such a "ZOMGIHESEFH" over Mass Effect. It has a sex scene? Yeah, like, four seconds of it? Why get so controversial about it.

Perhaps it was the first like, main-stream Western game to have sex in it or something, I don't know.

 

[snuffler]

You offer no argument for this, possibly because none exists. It's just as false as saying that putting playable Nazis in a game necessarily makes them the plot element that must be highlighted, demonized, re-demonized, and distanced from as if the entire audience were dumb fucks with no sense of morality or history whatsoever. Sex is just one of many plot and characterization elements. It can be used effectively or badly.

Well, lets take a look at two very controversial cases of sex in video games then:

First, the whole "Hot Coffee" thing. While the content wasn't technically "available", it was part of the game. Stepping back a bit, the main theme of GTA is just that, Grand Theft Auto. As I said before (and if I'm not mistaken you might've agreed with) "it usually just ends up as a useless side story that's ridiculously underdeveloped and immature as a result."

Secondly, taking a look at Mass Effect, although it was possible to delve into a "relationship" in that game, again it was pulled off as a secondary theme to the main plot, and the relationships that were available came off as underdeveloped. There were complaints that you could talk to an NPC something like three times and all of the sudden they were madly in love with you. Again, it was underdeveloped.

Sex is such a broad topic that it can't just be "touched" upon in the game, it has to be a prominent element for it to feel necessary. There's so much attached to sex that just mentioning it can't be enough.

The answers to these questions are blindingly obvious. Of course I don't want to play a romantic game sitting with "the guys". I also don't want to play FEAR sitting with "the guys" in a well-lit room with the sound turned down. Why would I voluntarily eviscerate the game like that?

I'm not saying you would ruin a game like that, all I'm doing is pointing out the fact that even the way the audience enjoys a certain type of game must be taken into consideration. But touche nonetheless.

At any rate, you bring up some valid points, and I can see this argument from both sides, in fact I'd prefer to see the medium more accepting towards adult themes. Unfortunately the approach is somewhat more tentative than what most major developers are willing to risk spending money on, so possibly before love in gameplay goes mainstream we'll have to see some well publicized indie games "doing sex well".

 

[shadow skill]

the question is why games, as an artistic medium, should be incapable of dealing with sex in a tasteful and mature way, when other media like books and movies have successfully done so for decades.

The answer is two fold:

1. The creators of these products in general lack the balls to do these kinds of games. They consistently refuse to go to bat for this kind of content against the "Save the children" fools.

2. Gamers lack the will to play these games should they be made. Nor can many of them see these things for what they are. Many would only see the tits and stop there, this will pretty much kill any intelligent critique of such content.

 

[rasmusernst]

I think I remember somebody else at the escapist wrote a similar article a few months back and I couldn't agree more, then and now.

I think adult/sex-themes in games today are just not that plausible. They are rarely attempted, and I have yet to experience a single plausible one, that didn't feel tacked-on. Mostly, it seems, for the sake of controversy/13 year olds(no offence guys) who just want to watch CG-bewbs with the "size" and "crazy physics jiggle" sliders set to max.

Come on, game developers, grow up a little!

Some of us gamers did... well, kinda.
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Bewbs!

 

[Ericb]

the question is why games, as an artistic medium, should be incapable of dealing with sex in a tasteful and mature way, when other media like books and movies have successfully done so for decades.

The answer is two fold:

1. The creators of these products in general lack the balls to do these kinds of games. They consistently refuse to go to bat for this kind of content against the "Save the children" fools.

2. Gamers lack the will to play these games should they be made. Nor can many of them see these things for what they are. Many would only see the tits and stop there, this will pretty much kill any intelligent critique of such content.

These are generalizations directed towards the most hardcore mainstream slices of the videogame industry.

There is a load of people not really into games precisely because the ones most catered to are the same ones who still prefer and buy products similar to what they used to play a decade or two ago, back one sex in games was relegate to rare and forgettable titles who treated it as a titillating gimmick instead of a relevant element in the story or gameplay.

Although I believe today the subject of sex still ain't being experimented with in interesting ways, it's walking towards that direction, if nothing more because of the mature discussions popping up about it.

Personally though, I think there still much work to be done towards the end of segregation of gameplay and storytelling before sex and other forms of human interaction can be properly explored.

 

[Nutcase]

You offer no argument for this, possibly because none exists. It's just as false as saying that putting playable Nazis in a game necessarily makes them the plot element that must be highlighted, demonized, re-demonized, and distanced from as if the entire audience were dumb fucks with no sense of morality or history whatsoever. Sex is just one of many plot and characterization elements. It can be used effectively or badly.

Well, lets take a look at two very controversial cases of sex in video games then:

First, the whole "Hot Coffee" thing. While the content wasn't technically "available", it was part of the game. Stepping back a bit, the main theme of GTA is just that, Grand Theft Auto. As I said before (and if I'm not mistaken you might've agreed with) "it usually just ends up as a useless side story that's ridiculously underdeveloped and immature as a result."

A sex minigame has no emotional impact? I'm shocked, shocked I say!
I didn't get very excited by the burglary minigame either.
And no, it wasn't a part of the game.

Secondly, taking a look at Mass Effect, although it was possible to delve into a "relationship" in that game, again it was pulled off as a secondary theme to the main plot, and the relationships that were available came off as underdeveloped. There were complaints that you could talk to an NPC something like three times and all of the sudden they were madly in love with you. Again, it was underdeveloped.

Sex is such a broad topic that it can't just be "touched" upon in the game, it has to be a prominent element for it to feel necessary. There's so much attached to sex that just mentioning it can't be enough.

You have one example of a game which attempted to incorporate sexuality seriously and did not do a stellar job, and from that you generalize a conclusion that sex must play a prominent part in a game? Seriously, WTF? Movies have no problem including sex without putting it on a pedestal. Sometimes there is a love interest in the background and that's that. Sometimes James Bond gets some casual sex and that's that.

OK, here's an example.

You are burly male space marine X. There's a woman Y (say, a weapons technician) who's been supplying stuff to you throughout the game. Now it's time to embark on a near-suicidal mission that is nothing like you've ever done before.

Shitty Generic Game #1:
Y has flirted to you throughout the game.
You step into the airlock to leave.
She calls out - once again - in a flirty voice "Take care, big boy! I'll be waiting."

Slightly Improved Game #2:
Y has appeared indifferent to you throughout the game. In her interaction with other NPCs she has proven to be headstrong, competent, and obviously hates admitting the slightest weakness.
You step in the airlock. Some seconds pass, and the door opens behind you and she steps in. She walks close (not smoochy close, just slightly closer than normal talking distance in the game).
"Look, [X]..."
She glances down. 3-4 seconds of silence. Anxious body language.
She looks up suddenly. "Come back, right?" Her voice almost breaks. Maybe as a result, the tone doesn't rise at the end, it comes out more like a plea or an order instead of a question.
She immediately spins around and walks out with measured, brisk steps. Door closes before you see the tears.

Shitty and melodramatic writing, I guess, but still more sexual than an entire Dead or Alive game. Something as small and silly as this can set up a tone for the entire game with no support from other elements if it's done well. Done well means it isn't made into a huge deal, hammered to the player's thick skull throughout the game and explained to death. And that's exactly what "sex has to be a prominent element" comes out as.

 

[snuffler]

edited

One word: Chill.

I agreed with you.

That "Slightly Improved Game #2"? That's half-life 2, the relationship between Alex and Gordon. This article is referring to something more than that. This will be my last post in this topic, quite clearly I shouldn't have brought a second perspective to the table.

 

[Nutcase]

That "Slightly Improved Game #2"? That's half-life 2, the relationship between Alex and Gordon. This article is referring to something more than that.

Yes, but for something more than that to happen and make any sense, something like that has to happen first.

 

[Cliff_m85]

*reads the second page*

OMG what is Morris Day doing to Lucy Liu?

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

The only logical argument against sex in a game is the games are not movies argument and the broad nature of sex. However, being that it is a game and thus already a simplification of reality, ways could be and have been found to address sex in a game without just making it a silly romp that is tacked on. To be honest, there is one argument and one alone needed to make the case for sex in a game. Immersion and it was already stated before I got here.

One of the quirky things about GTA is that you could steal cars, peddle drugs (perhaps I am thinking too much SR2 but bear with me,) and bang prostitutes. Why could you bang prostitutes? Because they were there and you had money. The same reasons you can in real life, consequences notwithstanding. It existed because it made sense. It didn't need to be huge or drawn out, it was there to add flesh and a hint of logic to the world. Same thing with Fallout 3 and the prostitute there, though admittedly that was so tacked on and arbitrary they might as well have not bothered, same with adding kids since they only really existed to insult you and consume digital air.

It is one of those quirky things where sex is some strange and forbidden taboo, much more forbidden than defiling the dead (necromancy) or mass murder (random killing spree.) Then again, I am in a country where they had witch trials and burned/drowned/mutilated people for made up excuses while talking about how pure they were. Of course, this style of thinking has evolved in the predictable fashion where I can easily get a game to wrack up all sorts of body counts. Hell Prototype keeps up on your mutilations which isn't even remotely uncommon. Timesplitters Future Perfect (a game I adore) had a beheading award (around 20k beheading got that trophy. Did I mention that I love that game? ) There is technically a rivalry based off kill count that started with Dead Rising then to Left 4 Dead and then to Prototype with an achievement based off getting X number of kills.

So what is the point of this? Most of you probably got it already but there is something creepy about a society that doesn't blink an eye at a graphic mutilation but almost faints in horror at the thought of a virtual orgasm.

/mini rant

 

[meatloaf231]

Eh, for arguments sake:

[Anti-hero]

Sex has it's place; well the hell outside of video games. Why anyone feels the need to have sex in a video game is beyond me. Quite frankly, I'd rather have a game that the only objective is to kill those things, beat that dude in a race, jump across these platforms without getting hit by walking mushrooms, make sure the zombies don't get to my house through the use of many herbs, solve a particularly mind racking puzzle, etc.

What I'm saying here is, there isn't any need for sex in video games, and it usually just ends up as a useless side story that's ridiculously underdeveloped and immature as a result. For sex to be put in effectively it would have to be the prominent theme of a game, and then in that case, is it any better than a pornographic movie?

If you're sole intention of the use of sex in games is to make sexual maturity on the internet commonplace, then you're fighting an uphill battle...straight up the side of a cliff. Made of shale. With saw blades whirring at 90000 rpm spaced roughly a half a centimeter apart.

I'm talking about a main character with a strong narrative facing the potential consequences of an adulterous affair. I'm talking about two characters who are clearly attracted to each other but for whatever reason choose to abstain - gaming needs more good sexual tension.

Sex defines people. It characterizes them. How we deal with, talk about or even engage in sex can speak volumes about a person. And how the video game industry and the culture surrounding that industry deals with sex does not say particularly nice things about us.

I'd like to talk about these two snippets really quickly, for the first part, why is it necessary that gaming has more good sexual tension? And how is it that an affair or a "should we? no we shouldn't" relationship would provide that "good" that you're talking about? You bring some valid points to the table that some sort of tension would bring more to a story but there's a very thin line to show what you're talking about. (I do have some other points about this, e.g. how to put sexual tension effectively in without it becoming "pornographic in nature", but for arguments sake I'll leave that out).

Secondly, sex does not define people. Or characterize them. It is another characteristic of someone sort of like their religious views, but it isn't the only thing that characterizes them. I know some people that are into some pretty kinky things, and you wouldn't have the slightest idea they were unless they told you. They're perfectly reasonable people that like to release their tension through somewhat devious sexual acts. Sex is fun, I'll let everyone come to grips with that on their own terms, but it really is. It provides a sense of release that (for the most part) is enjoyed with another consenting individual.

And for the fact that it's enjoyed with someone else, while video games are (historically) known for being played by yourself, or a group of friends, I'll stand on the side of this argument that there's little place in games for sex. Would you want to sit and play a game with sexual tension sitting there with "the guys"? Or would you want to play something like that by yourself? Would you feel inappropriate or awkward for playing it by yourself? These are the questions that beg to be asked.

[/Anti-hero]

A couple points I disagree with.

One: sex would not have to be a prominent theme of a game for it to be included with maturity and tact. Just because something isn't the main aspect of a story or interaction doesn't mean it's destined to be poorly done.

Two: you say sex has little place in games. I agree, due to the inherent childishness in a "game," being escapism and entertainment. "Games" are fun.

However, I don't think all video games have to be simply games. Look at Heavy Rain or Ico. They're played on a console, yes, but they're much more than simply games. They're focused a lot on character development, imagery, and story. They're (hesitantly) art.

Leaving sex out of games is fine with me. Leaving mature, adult relationships between characters - provided the relationship helps develop the characters, and isn't just tacked on for sex's sake - is important if video games are ever going to advance as a medium.

I refer you to this video. (warning, mature content)