296: House of Horrors

D Moness

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Ne1butme said:
Amen on shivers. Was the sequel any good? Does anyone know?
I found shivers 2 very confusing for some reason. I tried playing it but didn't get far and just gave up on it. It never really hold my attention like shivers 1 did. Funny how sierra can make game sequels that feel like something totally different.

So sad to see most of their franchises dead or totally destroyed but then sierra of now isn't the same as then when they still try to pioneer the video game genre.
Thank you for all the joy you gave me:
Roberta Williams : King's quest , Phantasmagoria , shivers
Al Lowe : Leisure suit Larry , Torin's passage
Jane Jensen : Gabriel Knight
 

D Moness

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Monshroud said:
I know people who have seen the original Halloween movie for the first time recently, and thought it was laughable. At the time though there was nothing like it and it terrifed audiences. Much like how people like myself talk about how great Half-Life is, and there are people out there who just don't get it because they played it 10 years after the fact.
Yep but slashers have always been absurd and over the top. Indeed in the 80's this was new and scary but even recent slasher movies are absurd and over the top(I know what you did last summer was really terrible). Like a few good horror games from 92-96 there are some good horror from the 80's that still creep you out(Exorcist and Poltergeist).

Still slashers are a bad example in any case :)(btw i like slasher movies from the 80's(Nightmare on elmstreet for example))
 

Monshroud

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D Moness said:
Monshroud said:
I know people who have seen the original Halloween movie for the first time recently, and thought it was laughable. At the time though there was nothing like it and it terrifed audiences. Much like how people like myself talk about how great Half-Life is, and there are people out there who just don't get it because they played it 10 years after the fact.
Yep but slashers have always been absurd and over the top. Indeed in the 80's this was new and scary but even recent slasher movies are absurd and over the top(I know what you did last summer was really terrible). Like a few good horror games from 92-96 there are some good horror from the 80's that still creep you out(Exorcist and Poltergeist).

Still slashers are a bad example in any case :)(btw i like slasher movies from the 80's(Nightmare on elmstreet for example))
I think slashers was a really good example. Not liking the genre doesn't make it a bad example.

I think you missed what I said at the end, it's about context. I should have elaborated further on that, with relatability. In terms of how people look and dress. The further away you are from that, the harder it is to relate to. Using Halloween as an example, the way people dress, acted, gender roles, technology, etc. are far different from that of right now. Same goes with video games. There wasn't any FPS out there that had the story and detail that Half-Life had. Now it is much more common. Elements that were amazing then, are common now.

I know plently of people who think the latest batch of slasher films are great, but that the older ones are just dumb. Context can change the views on things...
 

D Moness

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Monshroud said:
D Moness said:
Still slashers are a bad example in any case :)(btw i like slasher movies from the 80's(Nightmare on elmstreet for example))
I think slashers was a really good example. Not liking the genre doesn't make it a bad example.

I think you missed what I said at the end, it's about context.
Who said not liking slashers, I called them a bad example because they are always are and have been over the top. I love horror movies the good , the bad and the terrible.
I always try to watch movies with their time period in my mind special effects has changed all over the years. I do find that special effect people were much more creative in the past since the technology was very limiting for them.

I am going so off-topic now.
 

Monshroud

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D Moness said:
Who said not liking slashers, I called them a bad example because they are always are and have been over the top. I love horror movies the good , the bad and the terrible.
I always try to watch movies with their time period in my mind special effects has changed all over the years. I do find that special effect people were much more creative in the past since the technology was very limiting for them.

I am going so off-topic now.
Sorry if I mis-understood you. I just took the whole "slashers are always over the top and absurd" the wrong way... We need to be able to color-code text to provide the tone we mean..
 

Synonymous

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Two things about Phantasmagoria:

- Being a gamer at the time of the release, I recall there was a bit of a divide between the game's reception among gamers and among the mainstream press (the Will Shortz-created puzzle mag GAMES, which named it one of its games of the year; I think there were bits in Time & Newsweek). Sierra had hoped for Phantasmagoria to be a gateway for non-gamers into the hobby given its FMV cinemas - at the time, FMV wasn't popularly viewed as the laughingstock as which we all see it now, but the key to games finally growing up, to a marriage between cinema and gaming. (A while earlier, in the wake of the Mortal Kombat controversy, Time had done a big cover story on gaming that examined the trend toward digitization and realism in gaming, hailing FMV as the wave of the future. The centerpiece for their argument? The Sega CD Corey Haim vehicle Double Switch.)

Anyhow, the game had been designed accordingly to be newbie-friendly, and many felt that the results were overwhelmingly easy. The puzzles were regarded as very easy and forgiving, and there was a built-in hint system that pretty much gave the answers away if invoked. The general attitude among gamers toward was this was frustration (even sometimes if they liked the title, IIRC), while the magazines were impressed with the game's graphical prowess, seen to enhance the storytelling. There was the predictable brouhaha over the gore, of course (a bit toned down, actually, since Phantasmagoria has a gore filter you can turn on), but there was an equal controversy over whether Phantasmagoria was dumbing the genre down.

- I'm not sure the game's story is as brainless as charged. It's about an author and her photographer husband who've just moved to a new house. The heroine's just off a new success and the hottest writer on the market (her profits bought their new place); her husband's career, meanwhile, isn't doing too hot, and though they love each other, there's a sense that the husband might be jealous of his wife's success. The subsequent tale of horror, about a demon who possesses men and takes his vengeance on the women they love, kind of builds on this theme of male suspicion of female independence - there's a reason why the mad, possessed magician's varied means of murder always target his wives' heads specifically. At the climax (spoilers ahead), the heroine discovers her husband's darkroom covered with photos of her with her head lopped off - at which point the husband (possessed, of course) bursts in and declares, "A woman's body is a delightful thing - but the head is useless!"

Roberta Williams wrote the story, and despite the questionable execution, it always struck me as one that wouldn't have come from the traditional programmer demographic. During the game, the husband becomes physically overpowering, using his physical bulk to intimidate the heroine, a trend which culminates, of course, in the rape scene, a form of violence perpetuated primarily against women specifically. I don't want to be defending rape scenes here, but it's almost appropriate here (a lot depends on execution and needless explicitness, of course), as the story's about fears that are specific to women about men - fear of violence from a partner who will generally be bigger and stronger; fear about being resented for success by a husband or loved one because it's "emasculating" to be "beat" by a woman; fear about being valued as a decorative object instead of a person and punished when one attempts to show agency or - well, use one's head.

(Please note that I'm not with this analysis accusing males of being all horrible, oppressive wife-mutilators or claiming that women go around in perpetual fear of men. I'm simply noting these are fears that can pop up in certain male-female relationships and that it's unusual for a game to explore them.)

Anyhow, there *was* a point to the story; whether it got drowned out by the extreme gore is another issue. (I'm certainly not going to argue with the article on the quality of the acting/directing or how the FMV/digital art mash-up looks today.)
 

Brendan Main

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Synonymous said:
...

Anyhow, there *was* a point to the story; whether it got drowned out by the extreme gore is another issue. (I'm certainly not going to argue with the article on the quality of the acting/directing or how the FMV/digital art mash-up looks today.)
It's cogent and articulate posts like this that warm my heart to the Escapist. This thread has been a pleasure to read, even if 90% of it is people telling me to go fly a kite.

If this is what's produced when people disagree with me, then I'll happily enveavor to be more objectionable in the future.
 
Oct 14, 2010
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Oroboros said:
I don't know why the author seems to have thought that Phantasmagoria warranted a review now when it came out so many years ago, while comparing it to today's standards. It kinda seems like picking the low fruit from a tree: no risk or controversy involved in picking on such an old title. What's next, a review panning Rogue for not having modern rpg staples like party members and a branching plotline? Older games should be judged as products of their time, not as products of our own. Phantasmagoria was a fine game for its time.
I really didn't see this article as a comparison of the game to the standards of today. It felt more like a comparison of what the game intended to be to what it actually was. Conveying the fact that a game wanted to champion realism and choice yet was limited by the way it chose to do so should not necessarily be taken as a dig.

The game was obviously well accepted for what it came to be, and that's great! But this was a case study - not a review - and it's stuff like this that sparks good discussion and builds our knowledge base when looking at the approaches of modern games.
 

The Random One

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Synonymous said:
- Being a gamer at the time of the release, I recall there was a bit of a divide between the game's reception among gamers and among the mainstream press (the Will Shortz-created puzzle mag GAMES, which named it one of its games of the year; I think there were bits in Time & Newsweek). Sierra had hoped for Phantasmagoria to be a gateway for non-gamers into the hobby given its FMV cinemas - at the time, FMV wasn't popularly viewed as the laughingstock as which we all see it now, but the key to games finally growing up, to a marriage between cinema and gaming. (A while earlier, in the wake of the Mortal Kombat controversy, Time had done a big cover story on gaming that examined the trend toward digitization and realism in gaming, hailing FMV as the wave of the future. The centerpiece for their argument? The Sega CD Corey Haim vehicle Double Switch.)
This is awesome, because when I hear about Phantasmagoria I remember this itty bitty gaming magazine from the 90's that I have. Calling it a magazine is actually benevolent; it's of the exact shape and size of a CD cover and it probably was the cover to a CD boasting 'hundreds of games', but I only have the 'magazine part now'. It talks about several of the hot games of the time, Phantasmagoria being one of those that gets the deepest treatment, and it does mention how FMV are the gateway to the future of gaming. I still have that magazine, only because it points to titles such as Phantasmagoria as being on the edge of adventure games, who are about to become the spearhead of industry, and then points to titles as Ultima... VI, I think, as being the last thing worth nothing in the dying RPG genre, whose mechanics are soon to become absorbed by the much better adventure genre.
 

VondeVon

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Phantasmagoria was my first experience with Australian censorship. I remember being a young girl telling everyone who would listen how unfair it was that Phantasmagoria was banned because of 'a little gore'. In my more innocent youth, I had no idea as to the extent of the gore. I was and still am a psychological thriller girl.

I'm sort of glad I didn't get to play it then because the gore really would have been shocking for me, but also sad because it was definitely one of those games that needed to be played in the era it was made in. Like Zork. :D
 

Lukeje

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Happy Sock Puppet said:
Most importantly, the author neglects to point at that THIS game was the predecessor for games like Alone in the Dark and Silent Hill.
Alone in the Dark came out in 1992...

As regards the article, this is a game I've been meaning to pick up for a while now, but just haven't got round to it. I didn't realise that it was quite as much of a slasher-fest though.
 

Sillyiggy

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I was always curious about this game. I heard lots of excitement about it (given its scale and steps towards realistic adventurey gamieness) but then it came out and I never heard more about it. It wasn't even at the game store. Back in those days the interwebs couldn't shed light on why so I just forgot about it.

Would not be surprised if it was just my conservative town game store would really not like to get into trouble or if it just did not sell well at all (I honestly think it is the later).
 

lacktheknack

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What about its sequel? You know, the one that had nothing to do with the original? That one relied on real sets as well as characters (until the head-punchingly dumb endgame, anyways) and did much better as an outright B horror movie.
 

lacktheknack

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Happy Sock Puppet said:
Most importantly, the author neglects to point at that THIS game was the predecessor for games like Alone in the Dark and Silent Hill.
Ummm... Did not do the research.

"Alone in the Dark" inspired the survival-horror genre in '92, "Phantasmagoria" arrived three years later as an interactive horror film, then Konami released "Silent Hill" four years after that by drawing inspiration from "Alone in the Dark" and "Resident Evil".

If you can draw a straight connection between "Phantasmagoria" and "Silent Hill", I'll eat my own hat.
 

Johnnyallstar

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Spoony did a lengthy FMV hell video series on Phantasmagoria 2. Here it is if anyone cares.

Let's Play Phantasmagoria 2! [http://spoonyexperiment.com/category/lets-play/phantasmagoria/]
 

Rad Party God

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FlitterFilms said:
Anyone remember 'The 7th Guest'?
I do, I never played it myself actually, but I remember my godfather playing it on his computer (back then when he was my sister's boyfriend). It looked amazing back then, I only had my SNES and then he came to my home, bringing his own computer and showed me Doom 2 and other games, including The 7th Guest. Definitely it was a lot more different than what the SNES was capable of back then.

Those pixelated actors that were typical of the 90's CD games look very dated now, but they were an amazing techical achievement back then.
 

antidonkey

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I still have the booklet and all the CDs of the original....surely caked in a decade of dust now. The game certainly doesn't hold up well in the test of time but it was completely different back in the day. I have fond memories of. Memories that would likely be spoiled should I ever fire up again.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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It's impossible to make a truly scary film, novel or video game. Go to whatever lengths you like--make it as realistic or goretastic as imaginable--and it is still laughable.

Not happening to me.
Not real.
Never going to happen.
Can stop reading/watching/playing at any time.
Not scary.

*shrug*