298: Ghosts of Juarez

[JakobBloch]

It's interesting that the Half Life mod has been brought up, I was actually just discussing this with my roomate.

When the mod was announced, almost universally, everyone rose up and condemned it. Personally, I'm in agreement, I don't think the mod should be made, because the people making it have expressed, quite profoundly, that they lack the maturity to handle the subject matter with any amount of respect.

But to get back to the topic at hand, I'm very torn when it comes to this game, and mostly because I don't know enough about it. It very well could be a well done, thoughtful piece that handles the subject matter with maturity and respect as it tells a tale about the hardships people face, or it could just be another Grand Theft Auto or School Shooter National Tour mod. If the latter, then I will stand alongside those who condemn the piece as the insensitive trash it would be. But if the former, then wouldn't the greater crime be in judging the game before it is even made?

Look at Six Days in Fallejuh, it was supposed to be a game made under the direction of the men who were actually there, if that wasn't a guarantee of material being handled responsibly I don't know what is, and yet, because of people jumping on it and calling it tasteless and vile before it ever reached completion, we'll never know what it might have been.

My point in all this is an old bit of advice I'm admittedly guilty of ignoring far more often than I'd like to admit, "Don't judge a book by its cover." Or in this case, "Don't judge a game by a screenshot and a press release." Let Ubisoft exercise it's freedom of expression, and if they exercise it poorly, then we can exercise ours and condemn it.

Well put and I agree completely.

Don't be naive, they are going after the same market as GTA or Saints Row but set in Mexico. Do you think those games are sensitive treatments or just adolescent wish fulfilment? You are talking about an industry that uses sex to sell a game about tennis for god sake.Do you think that Dante's inferno was aimed at the over 18s or the 15 year year kid? Have you seen the your mom wouldn't like it campaign for dead space 2. The companies know precisely who they are marketing the game at and I can tell you for free they are not going after the art house cinema market.

I choose naiveté if the alternativ is to condemn people for something that is still unknown. Condemning people for what they might do is oppression. It is just the same that heppens when people decide that games were to blame for shootings because a shooter owned Sonic the Hedgehog.

The story in the game has yet to be told for this game. It could be that the game is told from the perspective of the residents of the city, trying to fight off the cartel, or something else noble, but this is unlikely, because this kind of stuff doesn't sell in video games. Instead, it will likely be in the perspective of a cartel agent, trying to his increase his influence in the cartel, and the cartel influence in the country. This appeals to the larger audience, and contrary to what most people think, some white boys from the states actually do manage to do exactly this.

http://www.tampabay.com/incoming/reputed-mexican-drug-lord-was-once-a-texan/1118865

*snip*

Is there something else I am missing?

You are missing something. Stories about heroes sell better then stories about villains. Villain games need to be either humorous, righteous or piognant to really work. If you do play as a cartel agent, cahnces are you will have a change of heart by choice or otherwise. gaining status and noteriety from the suffering of others is not something your average person wants. There may be a wish for the noteriety and the status but the price to pay is just too great.

My greatest hope is that the story is about a father who looses his son to drugs somehow. I seem to remember reading that the game actually starts fairly far away from Juarez. A father could then follow the trail of drugs back to Juarez where he eventually unravels a cartel. Then in a bravado of power fantasy he kills the big boss. The true horror of the situation of course becomes clear then as even though he has killed on boss there are many more like him and even more to take his place. The pointed end to the story becomes that the greater problem is not one that can be won by guns and force but that it must be solved in the minds of our children.

If this is story that is going to be told is it then insensitive for them to make it?

 

[Iskander_Estel]

I don't watch a lot of news. I never knew how much trouble there is in Mexico.

You are not Mexican, right? The current situation isn't really exposed by the foreign media outlets. Mexico is in hell right now, and that's why we are leaving to Australia in 2 weeks.

Wow. I was not aware that things were that bad. 15,273?!?!? I checked that statistic a couple times because I could not believe it. I hope the Mex. gov't can get a handle on things soon. My heart goes out to my Mexican brothers and sisters.

Since this war (2006) there are already 35,000+ dead people, and an unknown number of assaults and disappearances. The first 72 hours of March (in other words: the first three days) 52 people were executed in Ciudad Juarez alone. And I live in the same state. The Government won't get things any better, and according to some of the WikiLeaks cables the war could extend 10 years. Even the USA offered support, but they said that even with their support the war would take at least another 12 years. Right now there is a chance of a Social Revolt, and we fear that there is going to be a probable overthrow in the 2012 elections, in consideration the 2006 election fraud.
Me and my family are leaving Mexico for good. Several teachers at the Conservatory are thinking on to going back to Armenia. Some might think we are paranoid, but we rather be wary and safe than sorry.

OK, the thing is this, Mexico it's not on his knees as most of you americans whant to belive.
I'm from Mexicali which is in the border with Calexico California,
what it's happening is a horrible wave of advertising from the govberment, who want's everybody craying about violence and crime, so we all forget other problems in the country,

I played GRAW 2 just a few weeks ago, and i can tell it's nothing like what is happening in Mexico.

I found it to be purely fantasy, silly, bad writen but somehow fun.

I dont understand what's the problem with this games, ok, for mexicans it's that we have to kill our people in the game... well nobody is forcing us to play it.
And if it's for the kids, i don't think Call of Juarez it's going to be less than Mature rating.

Mexicali eh? En realidad Baja California está mucho mejor que en Chihuahua, creeme. Claro, en ninguna parte de México se está exento de violencia, pero Chihuahua es simplemente una pesadilla. A mí casi me asaltan el 31 de Enero (persiguido por 300 metros), y desde entonces tengo un cierto pánico en las calles. Varios camaradas de mi padre han sido ejecutados y secuestrados. En mi opinión la violencia no es para crear una distracción de los demás problemas en el tema socio-económico. Pero bueno, el resultado siempre será el mismo.

A mi tambien me han robado, me han asaltado, pero ha sido lo mismo desde siempre, Mexico nunca ha sido un paraiso, la cosa no es que este negando que exista la violencia, la cosa es que la exponen mucho mas de lo que se hacia antes y esto no es en proporcion a como ha aumentado sino una exageracion para desviar a la gente, Chihuahua siempre ha estado asi como todas las zonas controladas por los narcotraficantes, si claro que se miran muy impactantes las camionetas llenas de soldados, que no son mas que parte de la misma campaña.

La violencia no es ni por asomo el problema mas importante del pais, 50 millones de personas muriendo de hambre, empresarios quedanso las arcas de los municipios, un fraude que ya todo mundo olvido, los sindicatos haciendo lo que les viene en gana, presupuestos tirados en estupideces.

En todo caso si hay un problema son los gringos que consumen la gran mayoria de toda la droga que se produce no solo aqui sino en todo el mundo.

Los vicios de los norte americanos son los que pagan todo esto, incluso ciudades como Mexicali crecieron por la ley seca del principios del siglo pasado, esto no es un problema sobre la violencia o la falta de control del estado mexicano, es un problema de salud publica, algo que los americanos no estan atendiendo.

 

[The Random One]

Why the fuck do you guys, forum posters above me, think a game shouldn't be allowed to do this? Portray it realistically and intelligently. They might fail, but they have to try first, and you don't even want them to try. Fuck that and fuck your delicate little sensibilities. Maybe these games can bring people to the light about the drug wars. Traffic did for me.

Because they don't. I'm not going to say that games cannot deal with matters sensibly or intelligently, because they can. I am going to say, though, that the modern day game industry cannot deal with it sensibly or intelligently. Look at the endless flurry of CoD games, or the Battlefield games, or any games set in a modern day war theatre. They all treat their subject matter with all the seriousness of a kid who just farted in a funeral. They try with all their might to put on a serious face but they're barely disguising the fact that they just want to scream 'holy fuck, look at out awesome game! Look, you just shot a guy... in the FACE? Isn't that GREAT?'

There are dumb action movies, and there are intelligently written character driven movies. Traffic is one of the latter. There are no dumb action movies about people from Juarez rising up to shoot everyone in the face until Juarez is free of murder by virtue of everyone having been murdered already except for the protagonist and his love interest. If there were I believe the Juarez municipality would be seizing it up as well.

And this is just a byproduct of the game industry's poor understanding of what the word 'mature' means. Oh, we need to show people video games are mature. Let's show tits and blood. Oh fuck, that wasn't enough! People still don't think video games are mature! Let's show some people fucking, and maybe also have the players kill some demonic children. What? That didn't work? Well, let's show them by having realistic battles in areas full of political instability! I'm sure that we only need to do that and not bother changing our tone we used in our WWII games, in which we show every single nazi as being completely evil and stop short of showing them bathing in the blood of babies, though not necessarialy Jewish babies because mentioning the holocaust is rather impolite. Yeah, let's make sure the player is quite sure the Russians/Middle Eastern dudes/North Koreans/terrorists/Mexicans are all pure evil and have no redeeming quality at all, we don't want the player to notice someone with his kill record on the real world would be a fucking psychopath because that's also rather impolite.

This is not to say I agree with Juarez' decision, though. I'm quite sure that if a game did portray the area in a manner similar to the movie Traffic it too would get banned. And I do think anyone who does any creative work should have freedom to do whatever the hell he wants and governments should just sit back and watch. That doesn't mean creators shouldn't have a little common sense and try to think of whether their fiction is treating the matter respectfully - or, if it's not, at least it's being deliberately disrespectful to make people think. And it's hard to argue that your average FPS is such a case. It's painfully clear to me that every FPS wants to treat its subject matter as seriously as Team Fortress 2 but can't because of its gritty paintwork.

This is not excusable. This is not advancing games as an art form. If you wish to discuss matters such as this seriously, then do so, and call Juarez out when they ban their game. But if you don't, don't try to coat your game in fake grit and pretend it's more serious than the teenager militarist power fantasy it is. I don't believe that stupid fun games harm video games as a medium, but I do believe stupid fun games pretending to be serious mature games do harm it, because if you're not a gamer, you look at them and think that's all games have to offer.

 

[beema]

Thank you for this article. I think a lot of gamers have no idea about stuff like this in the real world (as evidenced by some of the comments) and really need more exposure to it like this.

As soon as I heard about Call of Juarez: The Cartel I said "uh oh... this is gonna get heat, how dumb are they?"

I think game developers really need to start being more sensitive to the perception of their games in countries besides the US. I also think that there is a difference between free speech and doing something that is tasteful and common sense. Like some others have said, just because you CAN make something doesn't mean you should. I think people should start drawing the line at video game depictions of events that are running CONCURRENT to the release of the game. When real people are currently dying in the same situation, it's not cool.

I think no matter how this game portrays the situation in Juarez, it was a bonehead move to create it right now.

 

[esperandote]

OK, the thing is this, Mexico it's not on his knees as most of you americans whant to belive.
I'm from Mexicali which is in the border with Calexico California,
what it's happening is a horrible wave of advertising from the govberment, who want's everybody craying about violence and crime, so we all forget other problems in the country,

I played GRAW 2 just a few weeks ago, and i can tell it's nothing like what is happening in Mexico.

I found it to be purely fantasy, silly, bad writen but somehow fun.

I dont understand what's the problem with this games, ok, for mexicans it's that we have to kill our people in the game... well nobody is forcing us to play it.
And if it's for the kids, i don't think Call of Juarez it's going to be less than Mature rating.

Mexicali eh? En realidad Baja California está mucho mejor que en Chihuahua, creeme. Claro, en ninguna parte de México se está exento de violencia, pero Chihuahua es simplemente una pesadilla. A mí casi me asaltan el 31 de Enero (persiguido por 300 metros), y desde entonces tengo un cierto pánico en las calles. Varios camaradas de mi padre han sido ejecutados y secuestrados. En mi opinión la violencia no es para crear una distracción de los demás problemas en el tema socio-económico. Pero bueno, el resultado siempre será el mismo.

I live near Cd. Obregon (if I lived in Nogales we would be from the three of the most important and violent border cities ) And even though there is way more violence here than it used to be, on sunday there was an execution like 4 minutes from my home (Whaaaat!?), it isn't a violent as in Nogales even though political parties want to make it look like it is.

But the Cd. Juarez is, if not the worst, one of the worse.

 

[cerebus23]

Games makers should be free to make whatever games they want and let the marketplace decide if they are right or wrong. GRAW2 was a good game with a good story, and decent gameplay, dunno if tom clancy actually wrote the plot for it, kinda assumed they just stamped his name on stuff anymore and cut him a check, but he was alaways a bit ahead of the curve in picking out world trends and making the implosible seem plausable, based off worst case scenarios.

Free market actually works you know, if a game offends people will not buy it in great numbers. So i have no problem with games using real world bad guys like the taliban to portray terrorists, now if they are using said terrorists to portray that they are just misunderstood people that like kittens and babies then i would not bother with the game.

If your for free speech you cannot and should not accept any limits on said free speech, else one day you will have no free speech. People can decided what they like or dislike for themselves given a chance and proper information on all sides of an issue. Use logic rather than emotional thinking, because emotional thinking causes alot of the woes in society. And lets governments take rights away.

If you are anti free speech or for limits on free speech then you basically say i have no faith in people to think for themselves and act responsibly. And the small number of crazies and just pure evil people that cannot or will not act responsibly should be dealt with. But never let an extreme minority dictate the norm for everyone.

 

[DJ_DEnM]

I opened this thread thinking that their were gonna be a lot of people saying discriminative stuff. Im glad there isnt. I also live in Mexico and it is a scary situation. A 6th grader from my school recently got kidnapped. My mothers friend was kidnapped. I go walking from school to my house, so the chances of getting kidnapped are high. And I have friends that also go walking home that live further away.

 

[fulano]

Ugh. I'm from a border state, in Hermosillo, Sonora, in Mexico. And, yeah, shit seems to be hitting the fan these days as violence sems to be creeping around, like esperandote says. Just a few months back a dude was executed less than a mile from my house b/c he happened to be tha General Director of Jails in the municipality, or whatever, and was cracking down on some illegal nonsense that was going on inside of them (they had just fired his predecessor and is now who the fuck knows where).

But what people should understand is that this isn't about free speech against censorship. If you wanna say something go ahead and say it, be it in movie form or game form, but don't expect us to be okay with what feels like exploitative bullshit coming from someone who isn't dealing with this mess of a situation. If people intend to do a serious game about it then I'm all for it, but when Ubisoft or someone else pulls that kind of shit then we have an issue.

And yeah, it's too soon. How about someone started making schlocky games while people were jumping off the burning twin towers? people are quick to condemn a highschool shooting mod but not this? It's all in the principle, people. Give people time to move on.

Again, I'm all for your free speech, but, please, do eff yourselves if you are using it for the sake of your own entertainment.

What pisses me off is that you're too goddamn sensitive to let a game try. Just because little ***** ass children won't understand any possible nuances it might have doesn't mean you should fucking write it off!

They made hundreds of games out of WWII; nobody got pissed. "it's a long time ago," they said. That doesn't fucking changed what happened. People just like to forget history as well as current events, and this is gonna make them think. "oh I don't wanna." You gotta be fucking kidding me. If you're so upset, read a fuckin book about the drug wars and educate yourself.

What pisses me off is that you have no undertsanding or empathy to understand that people aren't even trying. They're just profiting from exploiting an unfortunate situation that they're not even dealing with. Your entire logic is a sad mess and I cannot believe you cannot see the glaring holes in it.

 

[Tony2077]

i miss shooters like graw 2 good story good game play sadly it had a crap pc port. more thing people say about other contries make me want to stay in Canada where its safer till i can be a assassin like in those movies(wont happen ever)

 

[DarkSpectre]

Mexico is more dangerous than Iraq.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

Being British I'd find it pretty insulting to my country if 'the troubles' started up again, ROI invades us and an American game developer then decides to portray the British army losing badly with the Merkan Army sent to rescue our poor defenceless selves.

 

[talkstogod]

... Try explaining to this woman http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/mexico/8077251/Mexican-student-takes-over-police-in-drug-war-town.html why a large American corporation should make an entertainment out of her attempt to bring basic law and order to where she lives...

Um. You're going to have a tough time explaining it to her... Marisol Valles Garcia attracted worldwide attention five months ago when she took over the job of Police Chief (when the article was written); a lot less attention was paid when she went missing earlier this month.

The horrors of real life have always and will always be far worse than the horrors of ANY fiction.

 

[Psycho Cat Industries]

You know,I don't like this fact much,but if you legalize the drug then there is no war.

 

[Pseudonym2]

I played this game a little while ago along with two other Tom Clancy games. All of them uncomfortably mix silly juvenile sci-fi military power fantasies with real life silly juvenile military power fantasies.

All the references to the weapons and tanks were seemingly written by the Pentagon and were drooling over how powerful these new weapons are. My favorite description is boasting of gun's "ease of use." Um, pull the trigger? The tough guy dialogue and terrible rock music videos make the game seem like a recruitment for the military.

 

[Arbre]

If utilizing the Mexican military was problematic, depicting U.S. troops on Mexican soil was toxic. Mexican feelings are still raw from two centuries of border conflict with the U.S., and even with violence spinning out of control, the idea of deploying U.S. combat troops is severely unpopular with the Mexican public. However, the U.S. is assisting the Mexican government in other ways, like providing training and technological upgrades for law enforcement, as well as sending U.S. soldiers to Mexico as trainers and advisors - fairly standard for U.S. anti-drug efforts in Latin America.

You know, for a country which has created such chaos that over one million Iraki got brought to their death beds, spammed napalm over Vietnam like there was no tomorrow, supported governments using chemical weapons in Middle East, nuked Japan twice and toppled perfectly governments across the globe, in Iran, South America and Africa, I find that their "efforts" in drug fighting most disappointing, to say the least, especially when you know that all it takes to drop the quite industrial production of drugs is to burn lands.
Oddly enough, there has never been as much drug shipping outside of Afghanistan as when the USA decided that there was a war to wage on tribemen while hunting some suppoedly douche hiding in caves *cough*.

 

[pizzapicante27]

If utilizing the Mexican military was problematic, depicting U.S. troops on Mexican soil was toxic. Mexican feelings are still raw from two centuries of border conflict with the U.S., and even with violence spinning out of control, the idea of deploying U.S. combat troops is severely unpopular with the Mexican public. However, the U.S. is assisting the Mexican government in other ways, like providing training and technological upgrades for law enforcement, as well as sending U.S. soldiers to Mexico as trainers and advisors - fairly standard for U.S. anti-drug efforts in Latin America.

Yeah sure, thats all rigth, thing is, having a member of an outside military force is anticontitutional: its illegal for anyone of the Mexican government to allow armed forces to exit the country (while theyre in service), or to allow foreign militaries in the country (armed, unarmed, as support, as allies, anyway, its anticonstitutional), besides, youre right: the first time we had your soldiers in our territory, you took half of it, second time you bombarded our main port, third time, thanks to your influences thousands of unarmed students where gunned down, so no, the game WAS kinda offensive to us (both of them).