Good post, just to touch on this point though. The last part is an uncertainty that we only know because the game tells us that's what happens. It is not a certainty in the game, and Shepard even says as much while also saying that if they die, they die having done everything in their power to stop them.Auron225 said:
3 Years Later: Mass Effect 3 Ending Revisited [spoilers!]
- Thread starter Gethsemani_v1legacy
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But why would that be a bad thing? The entire point of the first two games boils down to 'this time it's different', with even the third game stating the Reapers haven't faced a unified Galaxy like this before. There's more than enough groundwork in the series to facilitate a victory over the Reapers. That's assuming the game had to be the Reaper invasion, which is a massive issue in that you have an infantry combat game mechanic in a story about a space war (the addition of the Reaper-husk Ground forces felt very tacked on to me). My personal favourite 'alternate ME3' avoids this issue, an Indoctrinated and Reaper-enhanced Batarian Hegemony invading Citadel Space to facilitate the Reaper incursion. Shepard and crew have to both stall out the war, unifying the Citadel races and all that jazz, while at the same time building on the Reaper IFF plot point from ME2. Knowing that Reapers have unique energy signatures detectable by the Mass Relays, the ultimate goal would be to upload a 'virus' into the Relay network, that would command the Relay to shoot any ship with a Reaper IFF into the nearest sun. But that's tangential to the point that Bioware were trying to tell a story that didn't fit either their core game mechanic, or the tone of the previous two games.Roboshi said:
Think of it this way, for all their 'this is serious business' talk in ME3, the preceding game had given you a Suicide Mission in which nobody died if you were good enough. In that context it didn't seem unreasonable to expect a similar 'golden ending' for the third installment.
I felt the ending was generally just shit. It felt rushed and didn't make any sense, where one minute Shepard was making their choice out of the 3 colours offered them, then the next minute we see the Normandy fleeing the battle, and then it crashes on a lovely, leafy planet where presumably they all died of starvation after a week or two.
Having said that, I don't think the ending warranted so much hatred. People who were saying it retroactively ruined the entire series for them I think were being a bit melodramatic. A sentiment expressed on here by some people (one I share) is that the important part of Mass Effect is the journey, not the destination and no bad ending can take that journey away from you. Well, not from me anyway, as soon as I finished Mass Effect 3 for the first time last month I immediately started a new run through of the entire series, have now just started ME3 again.
Though I suppose me playing the game so long after it came out and having read material on the ending for the last few years it may have softened my approach to the game's ending, making it seem less bad to me? I'll never know...
Having said that, I don't think the ending warranted so much hatred. People who were saying it retroactively ruined the entire series for them I think were being a bit melodramatic. A sentiment expressed on here by some people (one I share) is that the important part of Mass Effect is the journey, not the destination and no bad ending can take that journey away from you. Well, not from me anyway, as soon as I finished Mass Effect 3 for the first time last month I immediately started a new run through of the entire series, have now just started ME3 again.
Though I suppose me playing the game so long after it came out and having read material on the ending for the last few years it may have softened my approach to the game's ending, making it seem less bad to me? I'll never know...
I'm still really curious to see what the game would have turned out like if Drew Karpyshyn had written it...I don't know how much control he had over the script but ME3 is the only one out the trilogy that he isn't credited as being the head writer. As for the ending itself, It wasn't great. Someone already posted the "I Heard You Like" meme and that about sums up my feelings too. Another point of contention is how the only ending that felt right was the cinnamon ending. The other two seemed like compromises that went against the point of the other 2 games.
That's the rub, right there.Shoggoth2588 said:
1. Control.
You literally just got through telling the Illusive Man that such a thing was impossible and that we, as a galaxy or species, let alone an individual, were not ready to handle something like the Reapers. But, hey, if the Reapers' 'queen' (ie. The enemy of all sentient life!) tells you that it's kosher? Why not, huh? What's the worst that could happen?
2. Synthesis.
The first game was spent fighting Saren, who advocated for a synthesis between biological sentients and the machine god Reapers. He was indoctrinated. Ultimately, you either kill him yourself in defiance of his 'belief' on the matter, or convince him to redeem himself by the good ol' medium of a bullet to the dome.
3. Destroy.
What your goal has been since Mass Effect 1. To destroy the genocidal Reapers and save the galaxy, whatever the cost. In this case? You're told by the Reapers' 'queen' that choosing to blow them all to hell will destroy the Geth and Edi...it even infers that Shepard will die as a consequence of this option. And what happens with high enough EMS? Breath scene.
Why the hell should we believe anything the Reaper 'queen' says? We have no reason to trust it. It is the enemy of all sentient life. Thousands of cycles. Trillions of lives.
Fuck that noise.
I mean, with a "twist" like this right at the end, with a fuckin' LITERAL deus ex machina for god sakes, it's no small wonder that people were upset. It lends credence to the 'Hudson and Walters decided to shut out other writers and defecate onto a keyboard in private' idea that was floated by apparent insiders over at Bioware.
Looking at it from purely an academic, story-line, tensions, rising action, climax, etc. etc. etc. view, it was absolutely horrendous. The action throughout the game ramps up to the ending, the storylines are all being wrapped up and tied into each other to come together in what should have been the climax to end all climaxes. You, as Shepard, have just fought your way through an army of creepy crawley robo horrors, and are making the final charge that will bring you up to the Citadel, the place that started the entire series, where you will fight your way through hordes of Reapers to activate the Crucible and end the war. But wait! Harbinger swoops down on the remains of your troops, cutting a path through them, leaving them mangled and destroyed before they can reach the beam. You, Shepard, Hero of the Galaxy, manage to survive, along with your comrades. No backup, no "oops, let's try again," no second chances, you have to finish this fight yourself. So you stand up, get ready to finish your charge, and...
You spend the next ten minutes firing two shots and shuffling forward in a straight line, after which you spend fifteen minutes listening to people talk at you and moving your controller sticks up or down a couple of times, then you can pick one of three directions and shuffle forwards again, to be rewarded by a fifteen minute long cutscene.
Seriously, whether the ending was contrived, didn't make sense, whatever, it could be forgiven. But whoever decided it was a good idea to slow the game down to a crawl during what should have been the climax of the whole series is a fucking idiot and should never be allowed to write anything ever again.
If they had kept the storyline EXACTLY THE SAME but made your trip through the citadel full of the hardest combat you've ever faced, around corners, through changing hallways, fighting it out with your comrades in arms, it would have been acceptable. But they didn't, and it was bad.
You spend the next ten minutes firing two shots and shuffling forward in a straight line, after which you spend fifteen minutes listening to people talk at you and moving your controller sticks up or down a couple of times, then you can pick one of three directions and shuffle forwards again, to be rewarded by a fifteen minute long cutscene.
Seriously, whether the ending was contrived, didn't make sense, whatever, it could be forgiven. But whoever decided it was a good idea to slow the game down to a crawl during what should have been the climax of the whole series is a fucking idiot and should never be allowed to write anything ever again.
If they had kept the storyline EXACTLY THE SAME but made your trip through the citadel full of the hardest combat you've ever faced, around corners, through changing hallways, fighting it out with your comrades in arms, it would have been acceptable. But they didn't, and it was bad.
Here's my theory, newly formed;Diablo2000 said:
The Reapers sent a relay and an exploratory force to Andromeda. The Big Bad there ground them in to the dirt, and the Not-Citadel-but-is-totally-a-Citadel relay falls dormant. The Continuity of Civilization protocol sends a force through a relay to Andromeda. A short time after, the pulse that knocks out the relays makes it to Andromeda and knocks out that relay too ensuring that the exploratory force is stuck there.
Yeah, or they could go the opposite way with it. Shepard and most of the Normandy crew died on the Suicide Mission, so the galaxy barely survived by the skin of it's teeth (and/or is still fighting the Reapers).Diablo2000 said:
I think it's gonna be more of a case of "Oh, shit. The totally-not-the-reapers are going to use the totally-not-the-cidatel to invade the milky way. We need to blow it up to prevent it... Because of reasons."008Zulu said:
Thought it would be interresting if they got there the conventual way with FTL drives and cryo stasis and the new game takes place several hundred years after ME3... It's a possibility, not a very likely one, knowing Bioware they probably just resource using some Mcguffin we never heard before because of other reasons to get to Andromeda, but it would be cool none the less.
I agree with the OP. It was a terrible ending, out of keeping with the tone of the trilogy up to that point. It was also logically incoherent. The Extended Cut improved it in some ways, but fundamental issues remain. It didn't change enough to save the ending.
I like to think of the Citadel DLC as the real ending, pretend that Starchild didn't happen and that the party occurred after the final battle, not before it. But the truth is that even that can't help me regain interest in Mass Effect, which was once my favourite video game franchise. I haven't followed anything about whatever the next game will be. I don't care anymore. Why would I invest myself in it again, when what's built up lovingly and painstakingly over years can just be toppled in a few careless minutes?
I don't know who decided on that ending, whether it really was just Casey and Mac or if all the writers agreed on it, or if it was other people in Bioware, but I feel terrible for everyone who worked hard on the game but didn't decide the ending. Their work deserved better. It's not like ME3 was perfect apart from the ending, but its other flaws were easy for me to overlook, particularly considering its incredible strengths (e.g. Mordin, Legion). What a waste.
I like to think of the Citadel DLC as the real ending, pretend that Starchild didn't happen and that the party occurred after the final battle, not before it. But the truth is that even that can't help me regain interest in Mass Effect, which was once my favourite video game franchise. I haven't followed anything about whatever the next game will be. I don't care anymore. Why would I invest myself in it again, when what's built up lovingly and painstakingly over years can just be toppled in a few careless minutes?
I don't know who decided on that ending, whether it really was just Casey and Mac or if all the writers agreed on it, or if it was other people in Bioware, but I feel terrible for everyone who worked hard on the game but didn't decide the ending. Their work deserved better. It's not like ME3 was perfect apart from the ending, but its other flaws were easy for me to overlook, particularly considering its incredible strengths (e.g. Mordin, Legion). What a waste.
I took it as that the Conduit only worked because the Protheans knew the exact coordinates for the Citadel. Would it have worked if the Citadel was in a completely different solar system?
After all, we know there are different types of Mass Relay.
Why everywhere? Because that is how the Reapers have been shown to operate. After all you don't just magic crops out of thin air and it is damn hard to collect the harvest when you have Husks trying to give you a cuddle.
There is going to be at least one year before food production is back to the level it needs to be, and that's ignoring if they can get the Mass Relays repaired that quickly. After all not all members of races are in a system where they can eat the food that can be grown there.
It's headcanon that Shepard survives. After all the breath scene can just as easily be taken as the final lungfull of air from a person who has done what they needed to do, dying to stop a threat. After all doesn't death seem more likely given the injuries Shepard sustained?
Edit: Refusal works in a way because this cycle ended up doing what the Protheans did. We gave the next guys a chance.
The thought had occurred to me, but the Mu Relay both being the only Relay with access to Illos and still being linked to the latter after four millennia of unforeseen drift caused by a supernova strongly suggests that the Relays function is independent of their location. It stands to reason that the conduit - being directly modeled off of the Mass Relays - would follow a similar principle...which is to say that the way they function more closely resemble quantumly entangled communicators (such as seen on the SR2) than Stargates.votemarvel said:
If Shepard still died anyway, what was the point of the breathing scene in the first place? Of course it could be just to shut up the people who wanted Shepard to have a way out... Well. I just answered my own question, I guess.votemarvel said:
In my headcannon both my FemShep and MaleShep (FemShep being my "Canon" one, not relevant though) lived, so I guess I shouldn't complain specially since I didn't played the damn game until last year, after the Extended "Enough to be less shitty, but still shitty" Cut.
And I see your point about hunger and disease, makes sense the galaxy to be in a pretty bad shape after the Reapers specially in the Destroy ending where in other the Reapers could actually help rebuild shit.
In any other franchise I would agree (although Deux Ex Machina endings are known to be evidence of bad writing). However, Mass Effect games are known to reflect the player's actions in the most important parts.viranimus said:
You'll get a very similar reaction if you remove or really screw up the guns from the next COD, the jumping from the next Super Mario, the fatalities from the next Mortal Kombat, the mutant creatures from the next Resident Evil, the fighting from the next Batman: Arkham, the open world from the next GTA, etc...
PS captcha: cool heads prevail Somebody shut down Captcha. I think it just went self-aware!
OK, I TRIED to stay out of this thread, as I feel I've already spent enough time on that woeful travesty of a finale. But it just seems downright wrong not to give it another kicking whenever it rears its head.
The thing with the ending is that it just abruptly flips the entire point of the series around, from the Reapers being the problem that has to be stopped from destroying the galaxy by the protagonist... to the protagonist and the galaxy being the problem that has to be stopped (by the Reapers) from surviving (as they are) the trilogy. Think about it. It's true. And that just invalidates every damn thing you did in the games. We don't even have to mention the fact that this switch is so poorly (i.e. not at all) integrated into the plot that it really would make for a much more satisfying conclusion if the final part with the Space Ghost was cut out of the game altogether, and all you got after Anderson's death was the credits rolling.
So, they should have gone with a "Reduced Cut", rather than the "Extended" one, which added nothing of positive value, only further messing up the mess. Oh, and the lasting enigma of them getting the lead actors back into the studio to record a stirring speech of resistance, just to use it for a "Screw You, Everything Died!" Game Over sequence. What the hell were they snorting?
The only good ending was the Happy Ending Mod, but unfortunately I couldn't persuade myself into accepting fanfic as closure.
The thing with the ending is that it just abruptly flips the entire point of the series around, from the Reapers being the problem that has to be stopped from destroying the galaxy by the protagonist... to the protagonist and the galaxy being the problem that has to be stopped (by the Reapers) from surviving (as they are) the trilogy. Think about it. It's true. And that just invalidates every damn thing you did in the games. We don't even have to mention the fact that this switch is so poorly (i.e. not at all) integrated into the plot that it really would make for a much more satisfying conclusion if the final part with the Space Ghost was cut out of the game altogether, and all you got after Anderson's death was the credits rolling.
So, they should have gone with a "Reduced Cut", rather than the "Extended" one, which added nothing of positive value, only further messing up the mess. Oh, and the lasting enigma of them getting the lead actors back into the studio to record a stirring speech of resistance, just to use it for a "Screw You, Everything Died!" Game Over sequence. What the hell were they snorting?
The only good ending was the Happy Ending Mod, but unfortunately I couldn't persuade myself into accepting fanfic as closure.