30 year old gamers feeling disenfranchised?
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I'm nearing 40. Whenever there's a glut in the gaming biz, i just turn to older games. Or what is more possible these days than ever - open source games. Roguelikes and such. Stuff from sourceforge.net, just scan through for new stuff. More such things out there than ever before.
Some of my favorite games have been free open source games, even back in the day when they called them 'public domain games' and you'd go get them on disk or out of a mag. Plus, of course, there's indie games, and w/the likes of steam actually putting 'em out there they are no longer a secret that only the most nerdy know about but actually very easy to find.
Its a bit easier for me though as I'm a turn based strategy fan. I like rpg's and aciton games and all that too, but I think its hard to go back to a really old rpg or especially - old action games. The old rpg's are hard to go back to because you already know the story, its like re-reading a book, can be fun, but doesn't recapture the magic of the first time. And even if you are generally forgiving of retro graphics, its hard to be so forgiving in action games (at least for me). But old strategy games, for some reason, maintain their re-playability. For the rest of my life i'll be able to enjoy going back to replay imperialism 2 or age of wonders for instance no matter what kind of advances there are. And as you replay some old gems or try out a bunch of open source games, eventually a new release will come out that you actually like.
Some of my favorite games have been free open source games, even back in the day when they called them 'public domain games' and you'd go get them on disk or out of a mag. Plus, of course, there's indie games, and w/the likes of steam actually putting 'em out there they are no longer a secret that only the most nerdy know about but actually very easy to find.
Its a bit easier for me though as I'm a turn based strategy fan. I like rpg's and aciton games and all that too, but I think its hard to go back to a really old rpg or especially - old action games. The old rpg's are hard to go back to because you already know the story, its like re-reading a book, can be fun, but doesn't recapture the magic of the first time. And even if you are generally forgiving of retro graphics, its hard to be so forgiving in action games (at least for me). But old strategy games, for some reason, maintain their re-playability. For the rest of my life i'll be able to enjoy going back to replay imperialism 2 or age of wonders for instance no matter what kind of advances there are. And as you replay some old gems or try out a bunch of open source games, eventually a new release will come out that you actually like.
I think I love you a little bit.xDarc said:The 30 somethings who never crossed over to PC gaming really puzzle me. Early generation consoles were CHILDRENS TOYS. You'd go to toys r' us and there'd be an entire aisle of nothing but glass display cases filled with flashy packaging. Parents would take you. Consequently, as kids began to hit puberty, they started handing down their nintendos and what have you- discarding much of the things from their childhood to prove to themselves they were growing up.AverageJoe said:Don't lump us all into the same category, man!malestrithe said:
I still pretend consoles don't exist
Plenty of kids growing up did that. Some moved on to PC gaming to play more "grown up" games. You might point out that sega CD had some titles geared at older audiences, but that was slim pickings. Point is, consoles still carried the children's toys connotation and PCs were for big kids. If you were going to be a nerd and keep playing the vidya games, at least you'd be a mature nerd.
I know it's different now and consoles are grown up, marketed to all ages. But it didn't use to be that way. I'd say not until PS2 did that really begin to change.
No, but really I feel pretty much the same about that, just never heard anyone else put into words what I've been thinking. Grats.
Although I'm speaking as a 21 year old here. If I'm very honest though, disregarding PC gaming entirely for a second, there is no way in hell I would have become a gamer if I had started gaming any earlier than the Playstation era. I cannot get into much older than that, and I couldn't even back when I was starting out gaming around 1996.
I think the thing is, the gamers in their 30s who grew up on games knew it as a nerdy hobby. And lets be honest here, as much as most gamers themselves still equate gaming as a nerdy hobby, it's just not anymore, they're kidding themselves. It wasn't really in the sixth generation, perhaps not even much in the fifth. Now we're right at the end of the seventh and it's definitely fucking not. There are still nerdy games but they are overshadowed by the majority. Everyone plays games now, you go into a game store here and its staffed by stylish guys and 20-something girls who all know their games and are what you really might call "hardcore" gamers. The stereotype of the basement dwelling nerd is all but gone from gaming, and I think games themselves reflect that now. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on your perspective, to me its mostly a good thing. But I suppose for anyone who grew up in a very different gaming world than I did and really wants to cling onto that, it might be detrimental. I really do think this is the "golden age of gaming" as someone else said. Games are a lot of fun while also being intuitive, which is very important to me. Some depth and variety has been lost in the process, that I agree with, but its swings and roundabouts, and for me at least I find that games are actually playable now and more mature in general.
He's got a point, though. Arena shooters were a completely different beast from modern tactical shooters. I remember playing games where two players could spend several minutes trying to kill each other, because neither one could hit the other with all the dodging going on. Modern FPS games are more like an RTS where each player controls a single unit; it's more about flanking, positioning, and rock paper scissors than about twitch skill. Tactics, rather than reflexes. It's not a bad thing that games like that exist, but I think it is a bad thing that they've so completely replaced the older variety.Vault101 said:
OT: I'm 22, not 30+, but I also feel that certain genres that I loved growing up are gone now. I love some of the newer varieties of videogame as well, but I would really like some new arena shooters and combat flight sims, two genres that have gone by the wayside in favor of slower, less twitch based and more complicated fare. I'm sick of Counterstrike and Elite clones; bring on the UT and Wing Commander clones!
On the other hand, certain other genres I grew up on are coming back thanks to indie games; I still say VVVVVV was the best game to come out in 2010. It's a different market than the one I grew up on, but it's not all bad and it's not impossible to find modern examples of old genres.
Nostalgia has nothing to do with the fundamental difference in the most basic mechanics of shooters today vs shooters 10 years ago. It has nothing to do with CoD outselling summer block buster movies while in the 90's doom took YEARS to sell several million copies. It has nothing to do with the changing demographic of gamers, the watering down of gaming itself, for market penetration.Vault101 said:
That's not nostalgia. That's big business making McGames and pissing in my wheaties, and it's a pretty observable fact if you have any point of reference from back then, that is grounded in reality.
I'm 44. And female. I remember playing Space Invaders in the movie theatre (we didn't have real video arcades at that point). Then my Dad bought me a box that went on the TV and allowed you to play Pong, Single-player volleyball, and a "shoot the glowing dot on the screen and pretend you are firing a gun and its a target" game. They were hard-wired into the box. And the box didn't even have a name I remembered. It was later I got a NES, a Donkey Kong Cartridge, and another game where you played an archer who went into a dungeon after treasure.
I played a lot more games in the video arcade. I was even there for the release of the Star Trek Strategic Operations Simulator game in a local arcade and got a free T-shirt about the game. I also loved playing things like Tutenkham, DigDug, Joust, Gauntlet, Asteroids, Centipede, Pac-Man (of course), Battlezone (my favorite!) and so on. I didn't get an actual computer until 1991. I mainly played in Arcades and never really got into console gaming. So, no, I don't feel particularly disenfranchised.
I also play roguelikes such as Angband (hardest games in existence, no joking).
I played a lot more games in the video arcade. I was even there for the release of the Star Trek Strategic Operations Simulator game in a local arcade and got a free T-shirt about the game. I also loved playing things like Tutenkham, DigDug, Joust, Gauntlet, Asteroids, Centipede, Pac-Man (of course), Battlezone (my favorite!) and so on. I didn't get an actual computer until 1991. I mainly played in Arcades and never really got into console gaming. So, no, I don't feel particularly disenfranchised.
I also play roguelikes such as Angband (hardest games in existence, no joking).
"I'm a white male aged 18-30; *everyone* cares what I think!"Chemical Alia said:
In my experience, I haven't found female gamers around my age to be all that rare, although that could just be the nature of where I hang out and my general social group.
Speaking of the Genesis, I really need to dig that baby out again. Get some Road Rash 2 or Streets of Rage up in here. Now *that* was co-op.
I agree with this. I personally think that devs should stop focusing on how to make a game look more realistic, and concentrate on making it feel realistic. Organic character movement, better writing, etc. And yeah, EA can suck it. Big time.Westaway said:
Okay. Sorry for lumping you into one group.AverageJoe said:Don't lump us all into the same category, man!malestrithe said:
I still pretend consoles don't exist
But at the time, they were not filling out petitions to have console games ported onto the PC. This whole drive to ask, no Demand, Dark Souls to be on PC would have been unheard of when I was a kid. If it was on the console, PC gamers back then simply did not care about the existence of Dark Souls.
Funny, me either. Growing up I always thought all kids played games. I'm sure your social circles have some influence on that though, yeah.joe-h2o said:
I wish my Genesis worked! I'd love to play Cool Spot and the Lion King game again, haha. I remember when "co-op" meant my sister held the left part of the controller with Sonic the Hedgehog and controlled moving while I jumped, and vice versa v:
In ways the MEs are taking the industry over with some ill effects. Not the least of which is the endless regurgitation of the same things over and over again being economically viable. To an extent you can blame the developers and publishers, but the blame always has to fall back onto the consumer because its the consumer who rewards.
It brings me to mind of an old adage I remember about females. Women say they want a nice guy who treats them right. But all they get is jerks. Its just as much the women's fault as it is the men, because if treating women like jerks didnt work.... men wouldn't do it.
Gaming is no different. If it doesnt work, they wont do it. When we see EA and Activision pushing yearly rehash schedules its easy to blame them for doing it. But you cant entirely blame them, because they are rewarded every time they launch a rehash. If we do not reward them with release date buys... then they will forcibly find some other way to make money.
Anyway... major changes... Gaming has moved pretty far away from a small social circle activity to a more "connected, but much more isolated" experience. That takes a LOT of the "fun" out of gaming and its sort of sad to see how convoluted and expensive things have to be now to do simple things like have 4 people playing in the same room, and how comparatively little experiences like that we get to enjoy now. We had guitar hero and rockband for a while but how quick did that get stale?
Then there is the way we buy our entertainment. But thats fairly common complaint so not going into it here.
The biggest negative I think is that despite all the good that internet connectivity has done for us, its really hurting gaming in so many different ways. Even things we dont normally think of. For example, strategy guides because we can rush through the content in less time than what we once could. Honestly online multiplayer really has not really enhanced the game play experience as a whole. You see more negatives than you do positives when it comes to cnnected gameplay and its everywhere there is a connection. FPSs, MMOs, and then the ill effects of buying games and internet connectivity, Yes we get patches, but now we get DRM, Project 10$, DLC, day 1 DLC, ect ect ect.
I know online gaming Can be enjoyable, but honestly it almost seems like a drug addicted junkie. What was once fun, now takes more and more and more to equal the prior level. Now were to a point where having online connectivity makes gaming a tedious trial rather than a relaxing experience. I honestly think we SHOULD cut the cord when it comes to gaming, though I know its not going to happen or go away.
In ways its better such as ease of downloading games, higher graphical resolution. Higher degree of complexity in mechanics, but in ways its worse, but then, anything that changes and evolves invariably is going to do that. Have to wonder if its actually worse, or if the music has gotten too loud.
It brings me to mind of an old adage I remember about females. Women say they want a nice guy who treats them right. But all they get is jerks. Its just as much the women's fault as it is the men, because if treating women like jerks didnt work.... men wouldn't do it.
Gaming is no different. If it doesnt work, they wont do it. When we see EA and Activision pushing yearly rehash schedules its easy to blame them for doing it. But you cant entirely blame them, because they are rewarded every time they launch a rehash. If we do not reward them with release date buys... then they will forcibly find some other way to make money.
Anyway... major changes... Gaming has moved pretty far away from a small social circle activity to a more "connected, but much more isolated" experience. That takes a LOT of the "fun" out of gaming and its sort of sad to see how convoluted and expensive things have to be now to do simple things like have 4 people playing in the same room, and how comparatively little experiences like that we get to enjoy now. We had guitar hero and rockband for a while but how quick did that get stale?
Then there is the way we buy our entertainment. But thats fairly common complaint so not going into it here.
The biggest negative I think is that despite all the good that internet connectivity has done for us, its really hurting gaming in so many different ways. Even things we dont normally think of. For example, strategy guides because we can rush through the content in less time than what we once could. Honestly online multiplayer really has not really enhanced the game play experience as a whole. You see more negatives than you do positives when it comes to cnnected gameplay and its everywhere there is a connection. FPSs, MMOs, and then the ill effects of buying games and internet connectivity, Yes we get patches, but now we get DRM, Project 10$, DLC, day 1 DLC, ect ect ect.
I know online gaming Can be enjoyable, but honestly it almost seems like a drug addicted junkie. What was once fun, now takes more and more and more to equal the prior level. Now were to a point where having online connectivity makes gaming a tedious trial rather than a relaxing experience. I honestly think we SHOULD cut the cord when it comes to gaming, though I know its not going to happen or go away.
In ways its better such as ease of downloading games, higher graphical resolution. Higher degree of complexity in mechanics, but in ways its worse, but then, anything that changes and evolves invariably is going to do that. Have to wonder if its actually worse, or if the music has gotten too loud.
I'm 30!
I started playing games at the ripe old age of 6, when I got an NES with Ghouls and Ghosts and a copy of Mario.
My favorite game of all time must be X-Com; followed by Master of Orion2, Star Control 2, and Wing Commander 2, Civ 2. Star control 3, master of orion 3, wing commander 3, and civ 3 were all major disappointments in my life.
I've found that no one is producing the games I want to play. Competitive games are right out-- I don't particularly care to lose, and I don't have nearly enough time to spend on games now to get a win. Management and strategic games are either WAY to inflexible or COMPLETELY overly streamlined to be of any interest to me anymore.
I get most of my gaming enjoyment by simply getting excited about this upcoming title or that upcoming title, and big surprise, even If I do LOVE it (space marine!) it gets panned and probably won't get a content dlc or a sequel.
Que sera sera
I started playing games at the ripe old age of 6, when I got an NES with Ghouls and Ghosts and a copy of Mario.
My favorite game of all time must be X-Com; followed by Master of Orion2, Star Control 2, and Wing Commander 2, Civ 2. Star control 3, master of orion 3, wing commander 3, and civ 3 were all major disappointments in my life.
I've found that no one is producing the games I want to play. Competitive games are right out-- I don't particularly care to lose, and I don't have nearly enough time to spend on games now to get a win. Management and strategic games are either WAY to inflexible or COMPLETELY overly streamlined to be of any interest to me anymore.
I get most of my gaming enjoyment by simply getting excited about this upcoming title or that upcoming title, and big surprise, even If I do LOVE it (space marine!) it gets panned and probably won't get a content dlc or a sequel.
Que sera sera
Since I was about 5, I've had a PC in my house. I never used it to play games. I used to do homework, to learn typing, or to use print shop. To me, it has always been nothing more than a tool.xDarc said:The 30 somethings who never crossed over to PC gaming really puzzle me. Early generation consoles were CHILDRENS TOYS. You'd go to toys r' us and there'd be an entire aisle of nothing but glass display cases filled with flashy packaging. Parents would take you. Consequently, as kids began to hit puberty, they started handing down their nintendos and what have you- discarding much of the things from their childhood to prove to themselves they were growing up.malestrithe said:
Plenty of kids growing up did that. Some moved on to PC gaming to play more "grown up" games. You might point out that sega CD had some titles geared at older audiences, but that was slim pickings. Point is, consoles still carried the children's toys connotation and PCs were for big kids. If you were going to be a nerd and keep playing the vidya games, at least you'd be a mature nerd.
I ever made the switch to PC because I had a different notion of maturity than most. I did not equate maturity to, "Golly his hed got blowd up gud!" Maturity meant understanding my experience with games at a different level. I knew there was a story behind what I was seeing on screen. I wanted to know more about that story. When I discovered a game called SoulBlazer, I discovered that games could tell a story. It did not matter to me that I'm nothing more than Angry Id/ delivery boy wheeling around the protagonists to the next plot point. I simply did not care. I was in it to appreciate the story.
Also, your premise is flawed. Video game consoles are still children's toys regardless of what games appear on them. Nintendo is the only company that embraces it.