300...Too violent or not violent enough?

[Dorian Cornelius Jasper]

Now that the topic winds seemed to have shifted...

Yes, I find Frank Miller's work to be... trash. Strikingly bold trash. But still trash. I'll handwave his work on Batman for helping to shed the crust of camp the TV show brought to the franchise, but that's all I'm willing to give him. He's no Alan Moore, I'll tell you this. Miller's blatantly misogynistic, obsessed with style over substance, and the darling of the juvenile-at-heart comics crowd--who haven't gotten tired of over-the-top violence. (Yeah, it takes a lot of wading through violent shitty media, in both games and non-interactive fields, to start finding superviolence boring, crass, and insulting to one's intelligence. I guess my vote would be "too violent, but seeing as it's all the movie can do, and it's Miller's work, there's not much to say about it.")

And I'm saddened that he's got the reins of the film adaptation to Will Eisner's The Spirit.

...

As a token nod to the topic of Spartans... the Sacred Band of Thebes trounced them thoroughly. Both in combat *and* at the Gay Pride Parade float contest. They were an elite infantry unit comprised entirely of 150 gay couples (for a total of 300 there, too). And they beat the crap out of Sparta. Apparently, Pink is Power.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

more history movies, even if overly VFX'd

I think you mean "even if overly made up".

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Actaully, the real Spartans were gay. It was sort of par for the course in ancient Greece

it was more than just the greeks that were like that, and it wasn't they were gay more bisexual

the old adage was "men were for pleasure, females were for reproduction"

this is something that still goes on today around the world, usually it's with a man and a boy but there are a few exceptions to that rule as well

 

[Natural Hazard]

even though the film is loosely influenced by the Battle Of Thermopylae you could say 300 being too violent is well.. quite a silly statement i mean what did you expect they did? Sat there throwing flowers at each other. Yes some of it was overkill but hey it was fun

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

QFT. I loathe the man and his style over substance crap. Oh and his pretty damn blatant sexism. I'm pretty flexible with sexism but he's just beyond the pale.

If you are trying to get me to adore you, it's working. I cannot possibly hate Miller more than he deserves, so any help you can lend me on that front is appreciated.

*My dastardly plan is working. I should keep this up.*

The next stage in winning my comics fangirl heart is to worship at the shrine of Alan Moore. Then the next level is to observe that it is a pity that David Mack has gone from being one of the best in the business to being a total art-wanker, and a lazy son of a ***** too boot, but everything he did up through Kabuki: Metamorphosis is pure, pharmeceutical-grade brilliance.

My first introduciton to Miller was through the Sin City movie. It's fun and all but it struck me as quite vicious for its own sake. A pretty dumb movie for teenage guys (and girls! I know some equally bloodthirsty ones) who liked their violence and their pretty pictures. Not that I'm not PART of that group but I can tell when I'm being appealed to at a base level. It's not hard to see the sexual stereotypes either....

The final straw was when I found an article on some sort of design document he wrote for one of his latest Batman comics (not sure about that). It was a frame by frame description for his artist to follow along with the dialogue. ...The gist of Miller's description is "do the panty shot. Now go closer. Now take in the bust. Yes I'm a dirty man but do it anyway." Again, I know guys like to be titilated but seriously, what?

I liked Sin City in spite of its best efforts to make me hate it, same with 300, and it was mostly about the Pretty. The one thing I will give Frank Miller is that he seems to know how to compose a frame and page. Good compostition is a gift, I don't believe it can be taught, so, there you go, Frank, my one tiny bit of good opinion. I know it's important to you.

The Batman panty-shot page is legendary among female comic book fans. If someone had burned a labyris on his lawn, I would have been neither shocked nor disapproving.

And this is one last nitpicky bit that probably tells you more than you ever wanted to know about me. That scene in Sin City where Marv is tied to the chair and busts out, and the "dominatrix" is all like "But bondage is my specialty!" Sweetheart, if that's your specialty, you need to switch to cosplay or something, because that was the WORST. ROPE-JOB. EVER. Seriously, my grandmother could have gotten out of that, and my grandmother is dead.

EDIT: Did you know that, when he was younger, Miller went to Catholic seminary with plans to become a priest?

 

[Baker86]

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

I tried comic books and the proper tying of knots, so I'm doing my best to derail this thread, but I can't do it alone. Heck, there's even nascent gay history and feminist kerfuffles just lying there in the open like a couple pairs of sexy knickers, and no one has picked them up.

 

[Saskwach]

QFT. I loathe the man and his style over substance crap. Oh and his pretty damn blatant sexism. I'm pretty flexible with sexism but he's just beyond the pale.

If you are trying to get me to adore you, it's working. I cannot possibly hate Miller more than he deserves, so any help you can lend me on that front is appreciated.

*My dastardly plan is working. I should keep this up.*

The next stage in winning my comics fangirl heart is to worship at the shrine of Alan Moore. Then the next level is to observe that it is a pity that David Mack has gone from being one of the best in the business to being a total art-wanker, and a lazy son of a ***** too boot, but everything he did up through Kabuki: Metamorphosis is pure, pharmeceutical-grade brilliance.

Well I've got the Alan Moore shrine on my desk, ready for worshipping any time. It was Watchmen and no going back. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen actually got me interested in pulp. As for David Mack, I'm not a heavy comic nerd so, who?

My first introduciton to Miller was through the Sin City movie. It's fun and all but it struck me as quite vicious for its own sake. A pretty dumb movie for teenage guys (and girls! I know some equally bloodthirsty ones) who liked their violence and their pretty pictures. Not that I'm not PART of that group but I can tell when I'm being appealed to at a base level. It's not hard to see the sexual stereotypes either....

The final straw was when I found an article on some sort of design document he wrote for one of his latest Batman comics (not sure about that). It was a frame by frame description for his artist to follow along with the dialogue. ...The gist of Miller's description is "do the panty shot. Now go closer. Now take in the bust. Yes I'm a dirty man but do it anyway." Again, I know guys like to be titilated but seriously, what?

I liked Sin City in spite of its best efforts to make me hate it, same with 300, and it was mostly about the Pretty. The one thing I will give Frank Miller is that he seems to know how to compose a frame and page. Good compostition is a gift, I don't believe it can be taught, so, there you go, Frank, my one tiny bit of good opinion. I know it's important to you.

Oh Sin City was fun to look at, don't get me wrong, but if it were a woman (I'm sure Frank Miller would approve this metaphor) I'd enjoy ogling but be repulsed by the lack of brain activity.

EDIT: Did you know that, when he was younger, Miller went to Catholic seminary with plans to become a priest?

...
Well maybe...
...
No I've got nothing.

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

First, Frank Miller, next Alan Moore!
[muse]Perhaps we should make a comics book thread.[/muse]

 

[Quistnix]

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

Hellboy? Now there is an awesome comic series turned into a pretty good movie.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

Hellboy? Now there is an awesome comic series turned into a pretty good movie.

Mike Mignola + Ron Perlman + Guillermo del Toro = Dream Team of comic to movie adaptations.

I'm becoming rather enamored of del Toro. He might even coax me into a Harry Potter movie or two. He also does some of the best DVD commentary I've heard, which always impresses me, someone who is very aware of their creative process. Did you know that there is deliberately not a single still shot in the entirety of Pan's Labyrinth? The camera is always moving. I love details like that.

 

[Easykill]

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

Hellboy? Now there is an awesome comic series turned into a pretty good movie.

Mike Mignola + Ron Perlman + Guillermo del Toro = Dream Team of comic to movie adaptations.

I'm becoming rather enamored of del Toro. He might even coax me into a Harry Potter movie or two. He also does some of the best DVD commentary I've heard, which always impresses me, someone who is very aware of their creative process. Did you know that there is deliberately not a single still shot in the entirety of Pan's Labyrinth? The camera is always moving. I love details like that.

OK, I didn't really have anything to contribute, but I loved Pan's Labyrinth. So I get excited when I hear it mentioned. None of my friends like it...

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Mentioning Allan Moore in this thread throws me into crying fits over how bad the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie was and how that seems to have tainted the actual comic series by turning Moore away from excessibility and towards weirdo sex.

 

[Kayevcee]

Mate, it may be hard to accept, but you have to face the idea that Alan Moore may have been into weird sex when he wrote League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Watchmen, or even perennial GL classic Mogo Doesn't Socialise. You can never tell, sometimes.

Miller, on the other hand, wears his heart on his sleeve. Dark Knight Returns (now being made into an animated feature by WB) is 100% right wing paranoia from beginning to end, and his current project, "Holy Terror, Batman" is... google it. Seriously- if I told you, you wouldn't believe me. His Daredevil run is still fantastic, though. It seems like the extremely right-wing are quite well suited to street-level crime busting superheroes.

*cough* So... 300, eh? Haven't seen it. Any good?

-Nick

 

[RTR]

Just right. Nuff said

 

[PurpleRain]

Well, maybe not Shoot 'Em Up...

What?! I thought we were cool! You had to ruin it all! Shoot 'Em Up was awesome. No other movie can you see Clive Owen kill a man with a carrot! I hope you're happy.

So now we've gone from 300 to Sin City....hmmmm i wonder what else will come up...

Hellboy? Now there is an awesome comic series turned into a pretty good movie.

Meh. Hellboy did nothing for me. With that said, Hellboy 2 looks great.

 

[Easykill]

Well, maybe not Shoot 'Em Up...

What?! I thought we were cool! You had to ruin it all! Shoot 'Em Up was awesome. No other movie can you see Clive Owen kill a man with a carrot! I hope you're happy.

No need to get all heartbroken, she seems to like it in another thread. I believe you're reading it wrong.

 

[Spartan152]

not enough violence. clearly. there were like 3 fight scenes, and while satisfying, I left the theatre lusting for more

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

Mentioning Allan Moore in this thread throws me into crying fits over how bad the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie was and how that seems to have tainted the actual comic series by turning Moore away from excessibility and towards weirdo sex.

LXG--I. HAVE. NO. WORDS.

The English language does not have a word or phrase sufficient to express my disgust at that movie.

As for Moore, he's always been a freak. He's been doing not-particularly-accessible work since back in the day with "The Birth Caul" and "Snakes and Ladders." If you are refering to "Lost Girls" I own that and I love it. But then, I would, because I'm a freak too.

Seriously, though, Moore is fascinated by the way the whole concept of genre works. That's why he's done such a wide range of work, because he sees a genre--supernatural, horror, superheroes, art comics, historical, etc.--and he has to try it. He was very specific in interviews that Lost Girls was intended to be Porn NOT Erotica, because porn is a genre with a history and rules like any other. And then to combine it with the stories that he did, well, I think he succeeded brilliantly. (I almost said "he nailed it"...)