302: Who Cares About Mario?

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Gralian

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Sep 24, 2008
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I'd just like to say that as somebody who was introduced into video games through Nintendo (proud owner of a Nintendo 64 from 1994), and has continued to be a Nintendo soldier with the various Game Boy iterations, the ill-fated GameCube, the DS, and the Wii, i've lost faith in the company. I've hung up my colours; this is not the Nintendo i know, and as far as i am concerned, the true heart and soul died along with the end of the N64, or perhaps the early GameCube years.

It's the result of commercialism. Brand loyalty does not factor into economics any longer. It's about who can provide the best service at what price. To think a once mighty giant has had its throne threatened and arguably toppled by something as ridiculous as smartphone software is incredibly disheartening, but it does show that Nintendo has relied too heavily on brand loyalty and not seen the writing on the wall - they ignored the competition, and now it's come to bite them in the arse. Nostalgia is a finite resource. It can only last for so long, and while you may try to install these 'childhood heroes and mascots' in the next generation, it will never be successful as the generation that preceded them.

Innocence and seclusion are dead. Mario and friends are no longer the poster children for an underground culture that's socially rejected. It's being assimilated into the mainstream, facilitated to a great degree by the very smartphones that are ironically killing the aforementioned giant that's trying to gamble its very survival on the nostalgia and sheer faith of its followers. I think Nintendo have realised this, and now they're trying to appeal to everybody again instead of those who remember Nintendo's past glory fondly and trying to re-install that past glory in the younger generation who are just being introduced to gaming.

This new appeal has come in the form of the 3DS, and while i can't speak for everybody and haven't seen any sales figures, i haven't heard particularly favourable things, either. 'Oh, the battery life is atrocious', or 'the launch games are terrible and don't even look any more technically proficient than the original DS' right down to 'i've had to switch the 3D off because it gave me a headache'. If trying to re-release the Ocarina of Time, a game that's been re-released twice in the past already (once on the bonus Master Dungeons disc that came with Wind Waker and again on the Wii market place) doesn't smack of desperation, i don't know what does. The 3DS is trying to appeal to the more mature gamers who will appreciate greater technical proficiency and hopefully more mature games as a result (i'm sorry, but i can't imagine young children getting the angle *just* right for the 3D effect... so who else would it be marketed to?), but it's met with scorn. And that's exactly how i predict the Wii 2 will be met with - a torrent of discontent and rejection. Nintendo are claiming it's higher spec'd than the Xbox 360, but given how old the hardware is, is that really a selling point high in its favour? It seems to me the only ones who'd care about that are the more hardcore crowd; perhaps the disillusioned faithful like myself who want to give Nintendo one more shot, but simply can't, like a lover you're forced to leave because they're abusive and manipulative, and yet a large part of you still wants to overlook and ignore everything to try and relive the precious moments one last time. It's certainly not marketed towards the demographic that made the first wii so successful; it sold to non-gamers because it was relatively low cost and the basic nature of it worked in its favour. I doubt lower income families are going to drop £200 on the Wii 2 when they have a perfectly good Wii 1 in the front room, and i don't meant that in a derogatory manner; it's purely trying to look at it from an economically realistic perspective. If they're not primarily gamers, getting the next console isn't really going to be high on the priority list.

It's articles like these that make me think EC may have been right. What's happening to Nintendo may be the first signs of the death of The Big Three. Once Nintendo loses its power, Sony and Microsoft may inevitably follow suit. First, the world will forget about Mario, then Ratchet & Clank, then even the Master Chief. Such is the way of the world. Every great empire crumbles eventually.

C'est la vie.
 

Jakub324

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Jan 23, 2011
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Mario, Pokemon (Kind of) Zelda, Donkey Kong and Metroid can all go and FUCK OFF because all they survive of is nostalgia, which I view as a plague. Seriously, how many Mario games are there and how much variation is there between the 3 varieties? BUGGER ALL!!!!!
 

Gralian

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Sep 24, 2008
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Jakub324 said:
Mario, Pokemon (Kind of) Zelda, Donkey Kong and Metroid can all go and FUCK OFF because all they survive of is nostalgia, which I view as a plague. Seriously, how many Mario games are there and how much variation is there between the 3 varieties? BUGGER ALL!!!!!
I really hate to use this image, but it encapsulates everything that i feel makes your stance null and void.


You're welcome to voice your opinion in that you're sick of mascots, or you were never a fan of any of Nintendo's mascots (or the idea of mascots in general as a premise for riding a franchise on), but don't mention the lack of innovation without giving credit where credit is due to others so guilty of the same crime. How much variation is there between these images? Not a whole lot, and if you were someone who didn't know that much about games i'd bet you sure as skippy couldn't tell what was really different between the three. I realise that's only the shooter genre, but what about sport? I don't think i even need to bring up the Madden argument; Moviebob has done that for me plenty enough. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3032-Maddening]
 

brinvixen

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Mar 3, 2011
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Tiswas said:
None of them probably had to spent a few minutes blowing into a cartridge to make the damn thing work.
Just thought you should know that you made my entire life with this line. I read this, and immediately was transported back in time, when just getting the game to go required the "blowing cartridge/wiggling switch/reset button mashing" method. But man, it was so satisfying when that game started going =)

That being said, I have to admit I wasn't an avid Nintendo fan. My friend had a 64, of which at the time I was very jealous, but the first system I ended up getting was the PS1, and since then I never looked back (except for maybe The Move ... I might not get that). However, I did religiously follow Nintendo with their handhelds, with Pokemon being my main poison, and any other games adding to the sweetness. Then the DS came out, and (here is where I feel I agree with most of what's already been said on the forum) the games started to feel more "kiddie-like". So I passed.

Still, I feel like Nintendo does serve an important purpose, though it's changed from what it used to be. Now, Nintendo is more like the entry-level for young gamers (parents probably feel a lot better buying their young children Wiis rather than Xbox 360s), who will probably look back fondly on their Nintendo memories just like older Nintendo fans do now. The memories will just differ is all.
 

Mr. Omega

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE!
Jul 1, 2010
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I like the Wii. Others don't. That doesn't mean that I think the Wii is better, or that they are wrong, or that there is an inherently superior or inferior system. It just means I get enjoyment from it. And what I enjoy might not be what others enjoy.

Seriously, the internet need to grow the fuck up. The common mentality of hate against Nintendo can be summed up like this: "WAH WAH WAH! They aren't making game for ME! EVERYONE HATES NINTENDO BECAUSE THEY SUCK, BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE GAMES FOR ME!"
 

subtlefuge

Lord Cromulent
May 21, 2010
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Wait, does this mean that "hardcore" just means "violent?"

Because that would be sad. I didn't think that games got more hardcore than Nintendo.

OT: I feel the slump in relevance is really more of an issue with both the Gamecube and Wii. While both are OK in their own right, Mario hasn't gotten his full amount of love, and has been used in a few too many less than interesting ventures.
 

Awexsome

Were it so easy
Mar 25, 2009
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I have to admit that the "kiddie game" has ridden Nintendo quite a bit. It was starting to appear during the GC's days when being compared with the PS2 and Xbox and by the time the third console generation came around... well... we already know what market gets the most attention with the Wii...

I for one LOVED my Gamecube. I'd call it my favorite console. The N64 is close... but the GC really made me a more invested gamer rather than seeing them as a fun distraction. Although I wasn't one of those kids who needed violence or anything like that to make me feel hardcore. Quite the opposite. Hell. I was pretty squeamish seeing blood in a game up til my early-mid teens.

I'll forever have respect for Nintendo for their past. I think the game me and my friends play the most when we're together is stuff like Mario Party or Mario Kart. Online we'll play Halo n' stuff which we have a blast in, but in person playing Mario Party is the most fun I ever have playing games.
 

Axelhander

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Feb 3, 2011
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Maybe it's because I've been playing Mario games since their inception, but Mario's old to me.

As is Nintendo. The type of game they THINK they're good at, they aren't. And that's the type of game I really want. I'm like a MovieBob that hasn't deluded himself. Yet.
 

Skratt

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Dec 20, 2008
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Good article. I've always known that my love of older games was based purely nostalgia - most of the crap I played as a kid sucked, but I have fond memories of having fun and that's what counts. Although, until now, I never quite realized why I have a blast playing Mario Kart or Mario Galaxy and not really anything else on the Wii. Nintendo is the Toy Maker, and I now look at them through the window of the passing shop and my memories are what fuel my purchases and enjoyments.

If that is the case, they should probably consider their dilema - we are loyal because you were either a Nintendo or a Genesis kid when I was growing up, with all of the brand loyalty attached - there were no ipods, smart phones, xbox, playstations, mincraft, farmvilles to compete with. Sounds like Nintendo is in trouble if they can't find a way to hook the current generation and give them something fun to play and remember. After all, who will be around to buy the next Nintendo for their own kids if they can't be bothered to care?
 

Scout Tactical

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Jun 23, 2010
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The article disappointingly poorly constructed, and the content is anecdotal drivel leading into generalizations. It was so striking, that I wanted to see if this writer's other stuff is just as bad. The author has only been a member for nine days (being generous) and has only contributed one thing, and made one post on the site, ever. I tried researching him on the web, but there's nothing connecting someone of his name to The Escapist.

I used to think The Escapist vetted its writing staff, but it sure looks like anyone can become a staff writer if they are "edgy" enough. I put less stock in this article than the pathetic reviews pumped out by the user content section of The Escapist's forums.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Nov 9, 2008
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Interesting, I'd always thought everyone loves playing SSB with their friends. If I had a Wii, that would be one of the things I'd do with people that came over for some gaming.
 

Vainglory

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Oct 18, 2008
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I recently got around to buying a DS, purely because I wanted to play pokemon. In the past the main games i've had on handhelds have been pokemon games, and i imagine in the future thats about all i'll get them for. To me thats about all thats worth playing. As for the Wii, i got pretty heavily in to mariokart but now that i've finished it all, it only comes out on occasion. If they brought out a half decent Zelda game then i'd probably get that too.

Point i'm stumbling towards is that the only thing that's worth my time are certain new versions of the old series, but also if they were available in any other way i wouldn't miss a beat in playing them on another console, or just my laptop.

I'm not loyal to nintendo, I'm loyal to Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario.
 

Pat8u

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Apr 7, 2011
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I am a Teenager and this is my memory of nintendo
Ever since I was five my brothers were all Pc gamers but my next door neighbour had a Gamecube I still remember going over there and playng super smash bros after going into the pool when I was 8 I went to my friends house and he had an N64 that was pretty old but I remember having more fun playong that than playing the Ps2 then the Wii and PS3 came along I had a wii before I got the Ps3 and played the Wii non stop for a year but then we got a Ps3 and I've been playing that non stop forever there was A break for 4 months of the PS3 mainly because of WoW
 

SanguineSymphony

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Jakub324 said:
Mario, Pokemon (Kind of) Zelda, Donkey Kong and Metroid can all go and FUCK OFF because all they survive of is nostalgia, which I view as a plague. Seriously, how many Mario games are there and how much variation is there between the 3 varieties? BUGGER ALL!!!!!
Me and the wife were talking about how insane Mario as a concept really was.... I said he was basically a Sexually Frustrated Man-Child (if you take his voice seriously) stuck into an Alice and Wonderland like world dominated by turtles and Reptile and with only one woman who tends to get abducted by the king Reptile...

I commented that the basic concept only works in Video Games where reality takes a backseat to novelty. As for variation... The concept itself is so CRAZY that you don't really need much more. More importantly the games play tightly and have wonderfully catchy and beautiful music. Besides I have never met anyone that ONLY plays Mario. If I want variety I own literally hundreds of games to choose from.

BTW I don't feel its a secret that a lot of the Mario Platforming games are purchased mainly by adults. Honestly they're probably too difficult for the molly coddled youth of today.
 

LucidSeraph

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Feb 16, 2011
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I find the idea that brand loyalty is dying somewhat heartening, actually. I'd grown very weary of the console wars back in the early aughties, particularly since I was (and am!) a poor, lower middle class (at best) student with very little income. I don't give a damn that the Xbox (or Xbox360) is TEH BEZT or about the PS3; I care about having games that appeal to me that I can play. In my case, that means well-written plot (which... tends to relegate me to indie games these days) and clever, unusual game mechanics that don't punish me for being curious (which... relegates me to puzzle games)

In some ways this suggests to me that kids, rather than falling pray to the supersaturation of marketing in our modern society, are in fact learning to ignore that, which is a good thing. They want games that are fun! They don't care if Mario is on the box.

I think perhaps we'd need a larger sample size to see if this holds true across the board though.
 

Woodsey

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I had a Gameboy and Pokemon Red when I was little, but that's the extent of my affiliation with them. Apart from when they overcharged me by £180 for a Wii.

So yeah, my view of them isn't exactly stellar. Couple that with terrible 3rd party support, and the same fucking IPs for 30-odd years, and I must say, I don't really 'get it'.
 

pandasaw

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As a twenty year old, I did not own a Nintendo system until the Wii. I respect Nintendo's amount of important franchises but I grew up with the PS1 and the Halo series.
 

PurePareidolia

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I grew up with PC games and have to this day never finished a Nintendo game (though I have tried some), they just don't appeal to me, and I've never seen the appeal. I hypothesized that it was simply a lack of choice at the time - that people only had Nintendo so that's all they played, but gameboys and stuff were still around and popular when I was a kid, I just didn't have one and I had no trouble finding other games.

And I mean, their current catalogue is based on milking nostalgia from people or stupid casual games* so I couldn't be father from their target audiences. I even got a Wii as a gift at one point, but after playing through House of the Dead Overkill I was fairly sure there was nothing else the console could possibly offer. What I'm saying is it looks like everything they're doing is gimmicky, worthless and/or shallow, so frankly if they go under we're better off without them. Although admittedly much of that sentiment is because I find the business practice of remaking their old games constantly with practically no innovation to be detestable.


*I'm not saying they're stupid because they're casual - but that they are both.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
really the thing nintendo needs to do is have at least a lil push into the older gamers market, doesnt need to be rated mature but it needs a few of its franchises to grow with the gamers, twilight princess did a good job with this.... at least I thought so, metroid has also been a good game for bigger "kids" but it still needs something that highschoolers can point to proudly, instead of just waiting for them to become college kids and then realize how awesome their previous shame was
 

Conn1496

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Apr 21, 2011
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First console I ever played? Nintendo 64. Well, I lie, It was a Dreamcast, but it wasn't mine, and it wasn't exactly "playing", more helping out and taking over when things got tough and my family got desperate for people to ask, so they let a 5 and a half year old me try (Which worked on a couple of occasions.). I have to admit, my whole gaming life was built around Nintendo. I remember begging my sister to let me play on her Gamecube until I got one. I still say "Pokemon snap" and "Mario 64" are in my top 10 of games. I remember Pokemon stadium well too. Pokemon staduim was 'the' and still is 'the' best 3D pokemon game to date. Making a new Pokemon Staduim would be a good idea for nintendo, but I guess kids these days are too busy playing FPS games, and the magical "Xbox". See, until the Xbox 360, most parents would say "Oh, go and play Playstation" or "Go and play with your Nintendo". The Xbox was dead until the 360, and I had never heard of Xbox until so. I have to admit, all companies are trying too hard these days. I remember when games were poorly designed, but still exciting, and they sold! I would honest to god buy a Nintendo 64 if they released a new game for it, just because the limitations of it made it good. The limitations of the console make the creators use their brains to make decent gameplay. That's my opinion, and I was born in 1996, so I still count. (Also, the newer Pokemon games seem to be aimed at different people, and Pokemon is definitely Nintendo's shining star of games, so they're kinda messing it up, but still pulling people along through nostalgia, winning either way. Also, Mario has nothing against Fire-breathing foxes, water shooting pelicans, and dragons from different dimensions.)