On "The Road" With Bergman
- Thread starter MovieBob
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I think Mr Pratchett has probably watched The Seventh Seal as well.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU...BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY
Unfortunately, my list of films to see (which includes notable exceptions like The Big Lebowski, The Usual Suspects, The King and I)(Yeah, I know....) along with my list of books (Over 200); is keeping me very busy.
Perhaps if I stopped posting as much?
Nah. Just need to cut down on sleep a little more.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU...BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY
Unfortunately, my list of films to see (which includes notable exceptions like The Big Lebowski, The Usual Suspects, The King and I)(Yeah, I know....) along with my list of books (Over 200); is keeping me very busy.
Perhaps if I stopped posting as much?
Nah. Just need to cut down on sleep a little more.
Hmmm, well as much as *I* like to be defended even indirectly, I tend to think that some of your critics are correct. Video games are part of a (sub) culture I like to refer to as "fandom" or "nerd dom" where in general most people who are really 'into' them enought to call a site like this are also into comics, movies, TV shows, anime, cartoons, and pretty much anything else considered geek. The attractions mostly being science fiction, fantasy, and horror in whatever form.
While fandom *CAN* include some highbrow and thought provoking works, there is no denying that all in all it's intentionally very 'base' and lowbrow. Generally speaking this is the audience that is going to eat up the latest "Saw" movie or sci-fi action blockbuster, before showing any appreciation of what is considered "serious" filmmaking *UNLESS* it has fantasy elements. Your choices were relatively good since "The Seventh Seal" *does* indeed include the kinds of elements that can appeal to a hardcore fanboy being a work of dark fantasy, and yes it has had such a profound mark that it's influanced (and been parodied/referanced by) works within the fandom genere as diverse as the "Bill & Ted" duology or the Canadian sci-fi/comedy series "Lexx" (and an analogy to that movie indeed plays a key role in the resolution of the final season).
The thing is though that while many people in fandom are doubtlessly familiar with a few works like the one you mention, at the same time your typical geek is going to have no interest in "serious" filmmaking and arthouse films without those kinds of elements like "The Balloon" (nonstop footage of a balloon floating randomly over scenery meant to elicit viewer reaction) or whatever french film is getting rave reviews for rambling on about emotion and the human experience nowadays.
Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that a good amount of fandom is vehemently anti-arthouse. I think that the fact that guys like Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw go off against 'pretencious arty Bullsh@t' once in a while is part of what makes him popular as a reviewer, since a lot of self proclaimed "more serious reviewers" would be ranting and raving about that kind of stuff, and talk about wonderful it is to see games getting more artistic for the sake of being artistic.
I guess what I'm saying is that nerds can be arty, but mostly only when it comes to works of science fiction, fantasy, and horror. You'll probably meet many fanboys who have seen and understood works like "Eraserhead", "Hellevator" (or "The Bottled Fools" if you prefer), "Naked Lunch", and others attracted by some of the surrealistic FX is nothing else. Some might even consider those among their favorite movies, BUT chances are if seriously asked what their favorite movie of all time is it will probably be something like "Star Wars", and the above films are probably sharing the favorites list right alongside fare like "Godzilla Vs. The Smog Monster", "House Of 1000 Corpses", "Night Of The Demons", or "Demon Wind".
I think that one will attract more fanboys to say a showing of Argento's "Demons Trilogy" than say a marathon of all three of the Bergman movies you mentioned.
While fandom *CAN* include some highbrow and thought provoking works, there is no denying that all in all it's intentionally very 'base' and lowbrow. Generally speaking this is the audience that is going to eat up the latest "Saw" movie or sci-fi action blockbuster, before showing any appreciation of what is considered "serious" filmmaking *UNLESS* it has fantasy elements. Your choices were relatively good since "The Seventh Seal" *does* indeed include the kinds of elements that can appeal to a hardcore fanboy being a work of dark fantasy, and yes it has had such a profound mark that it's influanced (and been parodied/referanced by) works within the fandom genere as diverse as the "Bill & Ted" duology or the Canadian sci-fi/comedy series "Lexx" (and an analogy to that movie indeed plays a key role in the resolution of the final season).
The thing is though that while many people in fandom are doubtlessly familiar with a few works like the one you mention, at the same time your typical geek is going to have no interest in "serious" filmmaking and arthouse films without those kinds of elements like "The Balloon" (nonstop footage of a balloon floating randomly over scenery meant to elicit viewer reaction) or whatever french film is getting rave reviews for rambling on about emotion and the human experience nowadays.
Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that a good amount of fandom is vehemently anti-arthouse. I think that the fact that guys like Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw go off against 'pretencious arty Bullsh@t' once in a while is part of what makes him popular as a reviewer, since a lot of self proclaimed "more serious reviewers" would be ranting and raving about that kind of stuff, and talk about wonderful it is to see games getting more artistic for the sake of being artistic.
I guess what I'm saying is that nerds can be arty, but mostly only when it comes to works of science fiction, fantasy, and horror. You'll probably meet many fanboys who have seen and understood works like "Eraserhead", "Hellevator" (or "The Bottled Fools" if you prefer), "Naked Lunch", and others attracted by some of the surrealistic FX is nothing else. Some might even consider those among their favorite movies, BUT chances are if seriously asked what their favorite movie of all time is it will probably be something like "Star Wars", and the above films are probably sharing the favorites list right alongside fare like "Godzilla Vs. The Smog Monster", "House Of 1000 Corpses", "Night Of The Demons", or "Demon Wind".
I think that one will attract more fanboys to say a showing of Argento's "Demons Trilogy" than say a marathon of all three of the Bergman movies you mentioned.
Therumancer said:BUT chances are if seriously asked what their favorite movie of all time is it will probably be something like "Star Wars", and the above films are probably sharing the favorites list right alongside fare like "Godzilla Vs. The Smog Monster", "House Of 1000 Corpses", "Night Of The Demons", or "Demon Wind".
So sorry about that, we thought we'd locked up the cage for the night.
"Serious" filmmaking is like "serious" literature and "serious" acting. Chockful of people who use fancy words, images and allegories to tell exactly the same stories as 4Chan, Hippies, Yuppies, or Beagle Scouts. Exactly the same as everyone else.
Watching Eraserhead doesn't give you a degree in artsy films. Watching Jennifer's Body or The Hottie or the Nottie and working out what exactly makes them suck so much is far better.
Seriously, therumancer, not cool at all. Even if you happen to enjoy Glitter, that doesn't mean you can't appreciate good movies when you see them. I'd have to be in the right frame of mind to watch The Seventh Seal, and sometimes, yes, I will break out MMPR instead.
If that makes me less of a serious audience, then quite frankly I know which direction my popcorn's gonna get thrown.
Monty Python is all I need.
Just kidding!
Though I could watch those films from now to the end of time and still laugh.
In any case, do more of this. I'm often very interested in why I liked a particular movie and you made an excellent example in your review of 2012. Roland Emmerich knows good background design, which I didn't realize until you pointed it out. I then went back and watched Independence Day and The Day After Tomorrow and saw what you meant.
What I am stumblingly trying to say is that understanding why something is good is much more interesting (to me) than just getting a straight recommendation.
On the other hand, TVTropes has made my writing better, so what the hell do I know?
Just kidding!
Though I could watch those films from now to the end of time and still laugh.
In any case, do more of this. I'm often very interested in why I liked a particular movie and you made an excellent example in your review of 2012. Roland Emmerich knows good background design, which I didn't realize until you pointed it out. I then went back and watched Independence Day and The Day After Tomorrow and saw what you meant.
What I am stumblingly trying to say is that understanding why something is good is much more interesting (to me) than just getting a straight recommendation.
On the other hand, TVTropes has made my writing better, so what the hell do I know?
The_root_of_all_evil said:Therumancer said:BUT chances are if seriously asked what their favorite movie of all time is it will probably be something like "Star Wars", and the above films are probably sharing the favorites list right alongside fare like "Godzilla Vs. The Smog Monster", "House Of 1000 Corpses", "Night Of The Demons", or "Demon Wind".
So sorry about that, we thought we'd locked up the cage for the night.
"Serious" filmmaking is like "serious" literature and "serious" acting. Chockful of people who use fancy words, images and allegories to tell exactly the same stories as 4Chan, Hippies, Yuppies, or Beagle Scouts. Exactly the same as everyone else.
Watching Eraserhead doesn't give you a degree in artsy films. Watching Jennifer's Body or The Hottie or the Nottie and working out what exactly makes them suck so much is far better.
Seriously, therumancer, not cool at all. Even if you happen to enjoy Glitter, that doesn't mean you can't appreciate good movies when you see them. I'd have to be in the right frame of mind to watch The Seventh Seal, and sometimes, yes, I will break out MMPR instead.
If that makes me less of a serious audience, then quite frankly I know which direction my popcorn's gonna get thrown.
Perhaps I conveyed it wrong, but I suspect you mis-read what I wrote.
I'm speaking about the fandom community in general, not anyone specific. I'm sure there ARE a few people out there that are film snobs. My point was that the film snob mentality (what we're talking about specifically) generally does not overlap into fandom. Indeed game nerds and "artsy" types exist in fairly differant cosms. Sure some game nerds might have a fairly deep interest in and appreciation for film, just as some artsy types might get pretty serious about an RPG or Guitar Hero once in a while, however that's relatively unusual.
In general on a fandom site, if I walk in and talk about how the last horror movie rocked, or start a discussion about which giant Godzilla-type monster was toughest, chances are I'll find tons of people interested in discussing that. I want to sit down and discuss the feelings we all experienced while watching a movie about a floating baloon that went on for two hours and well... I'm not likely to find many kindred spirits. Some surrealistic movies that involved supernatural-type elements (or debatably so) even if slow paced represent an exception to this general rule. Naked Lunch for example exists on so many wierd levels that it can almost be considered a science fiction movie at times.
Or for example in the fandom community I probably wouldn't have much trouble finding people who are Lexx fans (not a huge fan of Lexx myself, but I've seen it). I don't think many people would however get the ongoing chess game between Prince and Kai and the way it fits into the finale (a deal only being kept at what is arguably the worst possible moment) being a bit of a homage to "The Seventh Seal". Of course in this case it's a game against The Devil, rather than with Death.
excellent, Just picked up three new additions to my 'classic movies to watch' list.
anyone know if these are available on netflix?
anyone know if these are available on netflix?
I must also say I appreciate what was done in the 2012 review by breaking down a shot into its most basic structure. I took a Film Arts class where I learned to appreciate the art of film-making more, but it's a lot easier to see such careful composition done in black and white than in color.
Seventh Seal had me intrigued with the opening that we watched in class, so I plan to keep it up.
I very much think you should keep with the "high brow" stuff. I was surprised you reviewed Jennifer's Body and even a few other films. I'd rather you tackle the stuff trying to be artistic, or take something like New Moon where you can break it down so bad there's nothing left from the defense but a series of stuttering "buts".
Seventh Seal had me intrigued with the opening that we watched in class, so I plan to keep it up.
I very much think you should keep with the "high brow" stuff. I was surprised you reviewed Jennifer's Body and even a few other films. I'd rather you tackle the stuff trying to be artistic, or take something like New Moon where you can break it down so bad there's nothing left from the defense but a series of stuttering "buts".
The thing with the seventh seal is that I alway suspect that the jokes don't carry through in transelations.
All foreigners I speak to about it doesn't seem to recognice it as a farce at all.
All foreigners I speak to about it doesn't seem to recognice it as a farce at all.
Well I'd probably fall into some category of uneducated movie fan,though since discovering Moviebob's reviews I've started a list of movie to keep an eye out for.I cant believe I never heard of Boondock Saints before.
I guess it comes down to,if you trust the reviewers taste your more likley to want to check out the references in each review.
I find Moviebobs reviews engaging and enjoyable and now rate them as highly as Yatzee's reviews of games.
So anyway keep up the good work Moviebob.If sharing your enthusiasm for movie's on a gaming website is cause for some other reviewers eyebrows to raise they can go fuck themselves.
I guess it comes down to,if you trust the reviewers taste your more likley to want to check out the references in each review.
I find Moviebobs reviews engaging and enjoyable and now rate them as highly as Yatzee's reviews of games.
So anyway keep up the good work Moviebob.If sharing your enthusiasm for movie's on a gaming website is cause for some other reviewers eyebrows to raise they can go fuck themselves.
I agree that explaining why something is bad/good is going to be a far more fruitful exercise than just saying "this is bad." With why's or why not's, at least one can take the arguments attached to the reasons and try to counter them with another argument. Without reason, there is no argument and it all dissolves into a piece of crap "argument" that's really more of a he/she said he/she said. I don't care who you are, your opinion will never be as important as an individual's opinion is to that individual. I hope that last sentence made sense.
Anyhow, to re-catch the curve from which I briefly struck out tangentially, I believe that the above "reason vs. opinion" argument is exactly why numbers do not and will not ever be a valid form of movie review. Or anything review. We all know that numbers will essentially boil down to a binary sooner or later with 0 being "didn't like it" and 1 being "liked it." Math may be a language, but it just can't communicate complex ideas like why a movie/game/etc. was good.
Yes, there are exceptions, but now is not the time to parse through all of them.
Keep writing interesting articles, and I will keep reading them.
Anyhow, to re-catch the curve from which I briefly struck out tangentially, I believe that the above "reason vs. opinion" argument is exactly why numbers do not and will not ever be a valid form of movie review. Or anything review. We all know that numbers will essentially boil down to a binary sooner or later with 0 being "didn't like it" and 1 being "liked it." Math may be a language, but it just can't communicate complex ideas like why a movie/game/etc. was good.
Yes, there are exceptions, but now is not the time to parse through all of them.
Keep writing interesting articles, and I will keep reading them.
As a young and unexperienced yet dedicated movie-goer (My vote history on IMDB just hit 1600 titles and I've seen at least another 400 more), I've heard the name Bergman tossed around several times throughout my life. I'm glad that someone finally told me straight up to go see his movies and I will for sure follow that advice. Besides, I'm getting tired of my current movie fad of watching movies made over a century ago anyway (God bless YouTube). There's a very noticeable lack of movies on my vote history made before 1970 so I really need to get schooled on the cinema greats of the 40's, 50's, and 60's so once again I thank you for pointing me in what I assume is the right direction.
Short answer: Yes, and "Seal" and "Persona" are well-known enough that you might actually find a copy or two in better rental outlet's "Foriegn" section (especially places that still kept their old VHS stock onhand.stonethered said:
If/when I do any of these "stuff you should see" bits, one of my cardinal rules is to try and keep it to stuff people can access without too much effort or expense. "Netflix" is a godsend in this regard.
That's it! Now we need a Movie Bucketlist!
An excellent article that complements the video as well.
An excellent article that complements the video as well.
I had watched "The Seventh Seal" a while back, and it was awesome, and I have "Hour of the Wolf" on my (increasing) Netflix queue. From the sound of it, "Persona" is right up my alley (what with the film-reel splicing and having it effect the storyline in surreal ways, which reminds me a bit of elements from the book House of Leaves), so it's off to add that to my list.
You've never seen "The Collect Call of Cthulu" on The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy or "The Beat-Alls" on The Powerpuff Girls? Cartoon makers are almost as much film geeks as we are. Which reminds me -RTR said:
I still think you're being unfair by labelling people that way; [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/755-Up] and I fail to see how liking one movie over another makes you a better person just because you "get" it. That, to me, stinks of snobbery and is sort of like asking James Patterson or Terry Pratchett when they're going to write any "real" books.Therumancer said:
