MovieBob said:
Therumancer said:
In general I do not think you would find many people in this paticular community who are going to appreciate "serious" arthouse movies for the sake of them being arthouse movies. Such movies only garnering recognition in fandom when they cater to specific generes.
See, friend, this is where you and I would differ. You seeme to be assuming that "fandom" won't expand it's horizons because it either doesn't want to or is inherently incapable of such. I'm not going to say you're wrong, I'm just inclined to think that maybe it's a matter of no one bothering to introduce one to the other.
This sort of thing cuts both ways: There was a time, for example, when Woody Allen movies would open like "normal" mainstream comedies. Eventually, it became "recieved knowledge for a lot of people that Woody was "too arty" (incidentally, it was in his Bergman-imitation phase) so they stopped paying attention - assuming "I won't get those things." In turn, the people SELLING Woody's movies decided to agree: "THOSE people won't get these," and they turned to releasing them more and more on the arthouse circuit. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. But then, recently, he makes "Match Point" and "Vicki/Christina/Barcelona" and the folks marketing them have a novel idea: Sell it to "THOSE people." Sell the murder-mystery angle ("Point") sell the sex, sunshine and ScarJo making out with Penelope Cruz ("Barcelona") sell Scarlett Johansson's sex appeal (both of them) and see what happens. Result: Two of his biggest recent hits.
On some levels I actually think less of Moviebob that he would care what artsnobs (well filmsnobs) think of his audience.
Understand: It's not so much that I "care" what people think so much as the idea behind their thinking interested me as to whether or not it had any merit - obviously, after all, there isn't much immediately-visible intersection between the arthouse and arcade. But if no one from one is even TRYING to reach out to the other, how can it be known?
Most of the things people come to like in their lives aren't things they happen upon, they usually get INTRODUCED somehow: Oprah puts "War & Peace" on her book club list, and suddenly
"Sex & The City's" fanbase is reading TOLSTOY...
some of them must have subsequently picked up "Anna Kaerina" afterwards, perhaps? The late Johnny Cash - at that point regarded as a "wait.. he's still ALIVE!?" icon - covers a Nine Inch Nails song and gets some alt-rock radio play that strikes a chord with a younger audience that hadn't really heard of him, leading to his first high-charting album in DECADES... think maybe that helped push "Walk the Line" into the boxoffice, or that he'd be in a "Guitar Hero" game without it?
Who's to say that the guy who's favorite hobby is fragging people on XBLA is automatically incapable of enjoying, say, a Kurosawa movie? Or a Fellini, even? Has anyone asked him? Mentioned one of the movies he might like? Perhaps took note of that copy of KOTOR on his gameshelf and asked him if he knew that the first "Star Wars" was initially inspired by a Kurosawa samurai flick called "Hidden Fortress?" How do THEY know what he'll think of it? How does he - "Green Eggs & Ham," remember?
Look, I'm a realist - I don't expect that because I put up this column suddenly "Ingmar Bergman Fan" and "Gamer" become synonymous... but maybe one or two or even a handful of the folks who read it check them out, and maybe a few of them enjoy it or have some kind of strong, thoughtful reaction to it. That, I'd consider a "win" and a reason to keep doing it.
I think we might be getting our wires crossed here (which is doubtlessly my fault).
I took your statements as being more along the lines of the fandom/video gaming culture overlapping with "serious" movie appreciation as a subculture. Not simply that there are movies that can be appreciated by film snobs which fanboys are also going to like.
You mention Kurosawa for example, while well thought of by many serious film critics, the guy is basically the master of overblown Samurai Bullsh@t. You have swordfights, and people getting their heads chopped off. Anyone who plays a Ninja/Samurai/Dynasty Warriors/Fighting type game is going be able to appreciate this to some extent. While more dramatic than say your typical summmer guns-a-blazing blockbuster, his movies still feature decent amounts of action and pretty much fall into the catagory your critic friends were saying appeals to this audience anyway despite these movies also having garnered serious appreciation.
Stuff like Samurai dramas, surreal horror films, and the line represent an exception by being part of the generes that fanboys already follow to begin with. Also I've known people who consider themselves real film buffs who will argue that the same aspects that will get a fanboy to watch and appreciate a Kurosawa movie, or something like "Naked Lunch" are effectively part of the marks against the movie that they respect it in spite of.
In general a real example of "serious" film making, would be about an unremarkable guy and his unremarkable, unattractive, and unlikable "friends" who spend a summer working in a garden growing tomatos where nothing much happens, but the protaganist comes to some minor revelation about himself.... or something where say some British guy pompously contemplates his naval for 150 minutes of screen time before somehow coming to the revelation that we are all but specs in the mote of god's eye and totally irrelevent. That's the kind of stuff you sort of have to appreciate on whatever merits it posseses to be considered a serious film buff by my experience. You just aren't going to find many of them in the gaming community.
When it comes to Woody Allen movies, well let's just say my opinions are extremely mixed. I think that one of the big reasons why he underwent a "too arty" period was more or less to save himself because despite what people say now I think he wasn't doing as well or gaining quite the mainstream appeal many would claim. What's more Woody Allen seems to sort of see himself as the "voice of the everyman" and while embraced by arty types, I think he gets that by trying NOT to be arty.
Speaking for myself my opinion of Woody Allen is that I watched "Life According to Garp" and as a Fanboy with social problems I came away feeling more than a bit offended... and really I feel I understood that movie perfectly (and few have disputed it). Few directors have ever gotten me to wish I could punch them in the head about 50 times before.
When it comes to like Oprah, well I chalk that up to a cult of personality. Her getting her fanbase to read Tolstoy is like when Madonna was getting people to read "memoirs of a Geisha". The books mostly becoming a fashion accessory, with the fanbase reading just enough cliff notes to fake being able to have read it while articulating how they agree with their celebrity icon. I say this because I've made an attempt to read Russian Literature and i have a fairly good tolernace for "pointless and boring" when I want to do something. Russian Literature was NOT intended to be read for pleasure, I can tell you that, and I have not been able to get through any of the books I tried. Though I can pretty much summarize all of the books together for you: "Life sucks, deal with it". Somewhere out there might have been a member of the so called "Sex and The City" crowd who read some of those books and enjoyed them. I'll be honest in saying that they are probably actually deeply masochistic and probably would have gotten more enjoyment by being hunt from the celling in a gimp suit and beaten like a Pinata.
Ahh well this is too long and what I was trying to say has probably been lost by tangents.
I guess if your trying to say that fanboys CAN appreciate films that have also met with arthouse appeal, I agree when they are within the right genere.
If you mean appreciating artistic films in general... well noone can speak for including ALL of any group, but in general I very much doubt you will ever find many fanboys who are going to appreciate movies that exist purely as a vehicle of contempation. You know stuff where some dude makes a movie where nothing happens to catch the essence of nothing happens and then artsy types will talk about how it perfectly captured the intended essence of boredom and tedium... the director must be a genius.
