38 Studios Lobbies For Videogame Tax Breaks
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
Ok, that's it. The next time 38 Studios makes ANY kind of headline it better be because they just released information on whatever they've been spending the past 3 years working on. Seriously, Curt needs to $h!t or get off the pot.
The idea is that having the business in your state produces enough tax revenue to outweigh the cost of the tax break you gave them to keep the there. therefore it's a net profit for the state if the state does it right.DaxStrife said:
3 years sounds about right for a major MMORPG development cycle. they're shitting, but they're just doing it with the door closed.WastedHero said:
Not quite. If it were that the headline would read "38 studios lobby..." instead of the way presented here. Grammar, you see.Treblaine said:
Your Analogy-fu is strong.cobra_ky said:
I'm just saying, I want to know more about this project Copernicus then 4-5 pieces of vague concept art which is all they have disclosed to the public in the 3 years it's been in development. Most, if not all, major MMOs have released more information about their games then this company has. It smells of vaporware to me and I'm starting to develop conspiracy theories that Schillings is just using the company as a major tax write off.
You know what I need to do is just forget about them and pretend they don't exist until they start making announcements. 3 years of anticipating an MMO being created by R.A. Salvatore is too long to be holding ones breath.
This is probably a great forum for this sort of discussion. BTW this is Curt, the guy who is actually NOT asking for tax breaks...
So this all started due to someone 'leaking' information that should not have been.
It was a result of a conversation, one of many, 38 Studios is having with states around the country.
We have been approached often over the past 24-36 months by states, and countries, interested in discussing finances and our studio.
Mass does NOT offer tax credits on development for the gaming industry, the only thing that exists here is the film tax credit, which is under fire right now.
What people seem to miss is this (as it refers to tax credits). Tax 'credits' see states giving away 10-25 cents of every dollar to companies receiving them. What you should know is that is money that does NOT exist were it not for the tax credit in many cases. If you don't have the tax credit, you are keeping 0 cents of 0 dollars in taxes. If you DO have the tax credit you are keeping 75 cents of every dollar of 'found money'.
Prior to the Mass film credit, 6 movies were shot in the previous 5 years in this state, since? 38 in the following 18 months! That's likely 35 or so films that WOULD NOT have been made here.
The issue and MAJOR difference in this instance is the film tax credit is dedicated to low paying transient jobs in most cases. Where it DOES impact local economy is this. I live in Medfield, Shutter Island was shot here. I know 3 local businesses who's owners have told me in person that were it not for this film at least 2, and the third said he thought it would, businesses would have folded in this economy. A local bagel/breakfast shop served 300 breakfasts and lunches over an extended period of the shooting. Instead of what they thought was going to be their last year, they had their most profitable. That's a tax law that clearly works at a level that doesn't get media, press, or votes, and it should.
Now as it relates to 38, the conversations we've had have been with states that DO have credits and want to lure the company to move there. For the most part that is just not going to happen. A 25% tax credit is not enough to pick up and move 160 people. But other states have and are offering other potential deals that would see us move, and we are in deep discussions with Massachusetts as well. Our first desire is to remain where we began, but in the end our decisions are made in with the company, it's employees and their families best interest, whatever that may be.
As to what you know about Copernicus, well, ya, I'd love to tell you more but that's just not the smart thing to do. too many times, too many games/companies roll out their hype train years ahead of when they should, and you, WE, build up unrealistic expectations that could never be met.
It's just not the right thing to do, so we don't do it. We have announced a little bit recently, at GDC, with RA talking about one major content and game play feature of Copernicus, as well as announcing that EAP will publish project Mercury out of our Baltimore Studio (BHG), the single player RPG set in the IP that is driving Copernicus the MMO. And that single player (Xbox, PS, and PC/MAC release) game will be our first foray into the market.
After 23 years in baseball I thought I'd seen some shoddy journalism, but I'm quickly finding out this industry has some work to do as well
So no, I am NOT running around with our hands out, but we are certainly willing to talk to folks interested in helping 38 down the path to success, who wouldn't?
So this all started due to someone 'leaking' information that should not have been.
It was a result of a conversation, one of many, 38 Studios is having with states around the country.
We have been approached often over the past 24-36 months by states, and countries, interested in discussing finances and our studio.
Mass does NOT offer tax credits on development for the gaming industry, the only thing that exists here is the film tax credit, which is under fire right now.
What people seem to miss is this (as it refers to tax credits). Tax 'credits' see states giving away 10-25 cents of every dollar to companies receiving them. What you should know is that is money that does NOT exist were it not for the tax credit in many cases. If you don't have the tax credit, you are keeping 0 cents of 0 dollars in taxes. If you DO have the tax credit you are keeping 75 cents of every dollar of 'found money'.
Prior to the Mass film credit, 6 movies were shot in the previous 5 years in this state, since? 38 in the following 18 months! That's likely 35 or so films that WOULD NOT have been made here.
The issue and MAJOR difference in this instance is the film tax credit is dedicated to low paying transient jobs in most cases. Where it DOES impact local economy is this. I live in Medfield, Shutter Island was shot here. I know 3 local businesses who's owners have told me in person that were it not for this film at least 2, and the third said he thought it would, businesses would have folded in this economy. A local bagel/breakfast shop served 300 breakfasts and lunches over an extended period of the shooting. Instead of what they thought was going to be their last year, they had their most profitable. That's a tax law that clearly works at a level that doesn't get media, press, or votes, and it should.
Now as it relates to 38, the conversations we've had have been with states that DO have credits and want to lure the company to move there. For the most part that is just not going to happen. A 25% tax credit is not enough to pick up and move 160 people. But other states have and are offering other potential deals that would see us move, and we are in deep discussions with Massachusetts as well. Our first desire is to remain where we began, but in the end our decisions are made in with the company, it's employees and their families best interest, whatever that may be.
As to what you know about Copernicus, well, ya, I'd love to tell you more but that's just not the smart thing to do. too many times, too many games/companies roll out their hype train years ahead of when they should, and you, WE, build up unrealistic expectations that could never be met.
It's just not the right thing to do, so we don't do it. We have announced a little bit recently, at GDC, with RA talking about one major content and game play feature of Copernicus, as well as announcing that EAP will publish project Mercury out of our Baltimore Studio (BHG), the single player RPG set in the IP that is driving Copernicus the MMO. And that single player (Xbox, PS, and PC/MAC release) game will be our first foray into the market.
After 23 years in baseball I thought I'd seen some shoddy journalism, but I'm quickly finding out this industry has some work to do as well
So no, I am NOT running around with our hands out, but we are certainly willing to talk to folks interested in helping 38 down the path to success, who wouldn't?
Here's where I get REAL confused. This is NOT costing you anything when a company moves to your state. It is FOUND money. This industry is already established, and it's entrenched in places like Seattle, San Diego, Austin for this very reason. You are giving tax breaks on dollars you would never see if you didn't have them. You are keeping 75 cents on new money, rather than 0 cents of money you never saw.DaxStrife said:
Boston already possesses the studio depth to blow up in a big way, but the state has made it next to impossible to incubate start ups when so many other locations are aggressively pursuing the young new companies. This industry generated over 60 billion in revenue last year, with MMO players in the U.S. spending almost 4 billion ON MMO'S ALONE.....
Start ups don't need tax credits, they offer nothing really, start ups, the traditional industry kind we see, are 3-4 or 10 person garage shops that need physical property, or seed money. VC's aren't the answer, that should be the state working to help the industry incubate these start ups to the point tax credits would matter, and with tax credits in place you incubate a company that STAYS HERE when they grow, rather than getting to a point of meaningful revenue and then bolting to a city that provides the credits. Credits are a way to attract a major EA, Microsoft or SOE studio, which is all good, but to truly nurture something with long term potential you need to do a lot more at the grass roots level.
