54,000 Gamers Ask for GTA V PC Port

[Jamash]

Spoiler: snip

snip

But it has been shown that mod support in popular games bring in long-term benefits. Just look at how TES:Oblivion didn't need to lower its price drastically right until the release of Skyrim (which in turn had its mod support prominently advertised), the Half Life 2 modding scene, or how DayZ, an ArmA mod, suddenly brought a several year old game into the top of the Steam sales chart.

I don't really understand your reasoning. Undo their hard work? Mods aren't doing anything to other people's vanilla game. And have you seen the depravity of the TES modding scene on Nexus? It doesn't diminish Bethesda games by any margin, whatsoever.

Spoiler: snip

Reading between the lines, some of the arguments put forward for a PC release aren't likely to persuade Rockstar or their publisher.

"Things like modifications have always been a HUGE part of PC gaming," the petition adds, "and modded GTA is some of the most insanely fun times you can have."

AKA

"Please release your game on PC so we can modify it because we don't think your vision of your game will be good enough".

That show of faith in Rockstar's work is really going to make them want to release it on the PC. They should really be saying that they want a PC release so they can buy and enjoy the game on their PC, not because it will be a barely adequate game that they can "improve" because they know better than the game's makers.

I'm surprised that the petition writers didn't also include another persuasive argument along the lines of:

"Steam Sales and try-before-you-buy are a huge part of PC gaming and waiting until the game is 75% off is some of the cheapest fun you can have on the most powerful platform".

I'm not surprised that Rockstar are hesitant to release the game to people who won't appreciate it for what it is and want to undo and tinker with their hard work, they suffered enough negative attention from modding with Red Dead Redemption on the consoles, i.e. those videos of Donkey-Woman and Cougar-Man that even made it to the national press and were being presented as examples of Rockstar's shoddy work and a buggy game, those were actually fake glitches made by modders who decompiled the data and put NPC skins on animal's skeletons.

There need to be enough incentives for Rockstar to release a PC version and the desire for PC owners to decompile their game isn't one of them.

How does wanting to modifying a game mean we know better than them. Most people who use mods normally play through the game without any mods at first unless there is something they really dislike. Mods are there to increase a games lifespan.

Your argument makes it seem like you don't know a single popular mod for GTA 4. I don't think the makers of the friction less car mod, the horse mod, the elephant mod, the San Andrea mod, or the trainers thought they knew better than the game makers at Rockstar

I don't disagree with you, some mods are great and some great PC games have started out as mods, I was just voicing a critical view of mods that will probably be shared by Rockstar, the target of this petition who are supposed to be persuaded to hand over their game to be modded.

I do know that some mods can improve games and fix minor things or re-implement content that couldn't be finished in time, (although that Elephant mod was a lazy, ill-fitting skin replacement and an embarrassment), but I suppose what it boils down to is a game a piece of art to be enjoyed, or a just collection of source code to be modified?

From the way it's looking, GTA V is going to be Rockstar's magnum opus for the 7th Generation of gaming and this premature petition saying that they should give people access to this work so it can be modified doesn't seem like a very persuasive argument.

Some mods are good, some mods are shit, and some mods can cause trouble for the game's creators (e.g. Hot Coffee, which cost Rockstar a lot of money), but my view on mods is irrelevant to the fact that using them as a key argument in a petition to get Rockstar to release the game on PC is a bad idea and counter productive.

 

[RA92]

I don't disagree with you, some mods are great and some great PC games have started out as mods, I was just voicing a critical view of mods that will probably be shared by Rockstar, the target of this petition who are supposed to be persuaded to hand over their game to be modded.

I do know that some mods can improve games and fix minor things or re-implement content that couldn't be finished in time, (although that Elephant mod was a lazy, ill-fitting skin replacement and an embarrassment), but I suppose what it boils down to is a game a piece of art to be enjoyed, or a just collection of source code to be modified?

From the way it's looking, GTA V is going to be Rockstar's magnum opus for the 7th Generation of gaming and this premature petition saying that they should give people access to this work so it can be modified doesn't seem like a very persuasive argument.

Some mods are good, some mods are shit, and some mods can cause trouble for the game's creators (e.g. Hot Coffee, which cost Rockstar a lot of money), but my view on mods is irrelevant to the fact that using them as a key argument in a petition to get Rockstar to release the game on PC is a bad idea and counter productive.

The thing is, people are wanting mod support for this game because GTA games have always been a good platform for mods. I can't see how you can see it as anything else other than a appreciation for the system you placed in.

And only a few major mods are about making the game objectively better, like those better lighting mods and textures. The rest of the vast pool of mods are fun content stuff like putting in a T-800, Ironman or a Batmobile. And modders will never have the resources to compete with Rockstar's professional animators and voice actors.

Perhaps you could point to a mod that can be seen as undermining their work to better illustrate your point?

And anyway, I honestly doubt they would be so egotistical that they would rage over mods for 'undermining' their work. Mods can result in constant spikes in sales. You'd be surprised how many people bought Crysis even thought they had no interest in it, only for Mechwarriors:Living Legends. And how did Crytek react? They sent those guys their first updates on CryEngine 3 because the mod generated so many sales. And tech savvy companies like Valve and Epic constantly support modding tools because the modding scene is great for picking talents. And if R* was so intent on protecting their work, then why do they let the players do anything with the protagonist even if it's going against the established character behavior?

Also, Hot Coffee wasn't a mod. It was programmed by R* and hidden in the system files. It was inevitable people would have found it.

 

[Revolutionary]

I'm just saying that if the release it to the PC I'll actually buy it. And all the DLC. Otherwise I'll find other ways to spend my money.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

It's true, I've seen some AMAZING mods for GTA in the past. I'm not sure that 100,000 people saying they will buy it if it comes to PC will be enough for Rockstar to consider a port though.

As always, time well tell.

Well consider that right now there are 64,866 signatures as of the second I am writing this.

If they released it on day 1 along with the console versions they would net them just under 4 million dollars minus whatever steam takes for hosting it there.

I really hope they release it on the PC personally

And minus the cost of resources to actually port it. I really hope they release it for PC too, I just don't see it being a day 1 release on PC.

Also don't forget that not everyone that signs the petition will actually buy it. Some people will sign it out of principle.

If it costs them anywhere near 4 million to port it they are doing something horribly wrong considering they have to program it on a PC to begin with

I consider the petition and sales close to 1:1 as sure, some who sign on principle wont buy it, but then there is the multitude of gamers who log into steam every day who dont know about petitions like this who will see "OMG GTA V, BUY THIS!" in a popup when Steam logs on or they visit the store front

Don't get me wrong, it's quite clear that they will make a huge profit on this, but if they think they can use the time and resources to do something else and make a bigger profit, then I wouldn't blame them.

If, however, they are holding back a PC version simply out of spite for those pirating fiends (no sarcasm, I really don't sympathise with pirates), then I would most certainly be pissed at them for that.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

I wouldn't mind a PC version but I'd probably end up using a gamepad for playing it on that platform anyway.

But for now I wait for the 360 version and remain content.

 

[DiamanteGeeza]

It's true, I've seen some AMAZING mods for GTA in the past. I'm not sure that 100,000 people saying they will buy it if it comes to PC will be enough for Rockstar to consider a port though.

As always, time well tell.

Well consider that right now there are 64,866 signatures as of the second I am writing this.

If they released it on day 1 along with the console versions they would net them just under 4 million dollars minus whatever steam takes for hosting it there.

I really hope they release it on the PC personally

And minus the cost of resources to actually port it. I really hope they release it for PC too, I just don't see it being a day 1 release on PC.

Also don't forget that not everyone that signs the petition will actually buy it. Some people will sign it out of principle.

If it costs them anywhere near 4 million to port it they are doing something horribly wrong considering they have to program it on a PC to begin with

I consider the petition and sales close to 1:1 as sure, some who sign on principle wont buy it, but then there is the multitude of gamers who log into steam every day who dont know about petitions like this who will see "OMG GTA V, BUY THIS!" in a popup when Steam logs on or they visit the store front

The dev cost will be somewhere in the region of $600-$900k (this is based on PC port houses that I've worked with in the past, because Rockstar obviously won't want to tie up internal resources focusing on the PC), but that isn't what's going to eat their money up if they want to do the PC version properly.

Because of the scale and type of game GTA is, just testing the damn thing thoroughly on enough PC configurations to cover all bases of different hardware mixes is going to involve a lot of people and cost. And then, once it is released, a PC game always requires a significant customer service effort to field the thousands of phone calls from the people who can't get it to load, don't have the right drivers, have poor performance, can't find the 'on' switch, and so on (and this is also speaking from experience). The amount of CS coverage you need for a PC game is higher than for a console game because there is potential for more things to go wrong (plus consoles have their own first-party CS which takes some of the burden from a publisher).

Once the distribution costs have been factored in as well (whether this be Steam, disk, or whatever), I honestly doubt they'll see much profit from that $4m. It sounds crazy, but there are a lot of hidden costs with making video games that go way beyond just development. So, looking at it from the perspective of Rockstar's CFO, do you invest all that time and money to earn, if you're very lucky, a couple of hundred grand out of it, or do you invest it in making more DLC for the console versions?

For PC gamers that is the wrong decision. For the business side of the company, it is currently the right decision, but things change over time.

 

[unstabLized]

I don't care if it will take a year to fix the damn port, but I still want it for PC dammit! Put me on that list!

 

[VladG]

It's true, I've seen some AMAZING mods for GTA in the past. I'm not sure that 100,000 people saying they will buy it if it comes to PC will enough for Rockstar to consider a port though.

As always, time well tell.

Actually I think 100.000 is a very small number, not even worth considering for Rockstar.

Personally I'd love a PC version of GTA V, since I'm not likely to play it otherwise. But if it's as shitty a port as GTA IV was... then they might as well not bother.

 

[Evil Smurf]

it will be hilarious if it is released for OSX before Windows XD

 

[Jamash]

Spoiler: snip

Reading between the lines, some of the arguments put forward for a PC release aren't likely to persuade Rockstar or their publisher.

"Things like modifications have always been a HUGE part of PC gaming," the petition adds, "and modded GTA is some of the most insanely fun times you can have."

AKA

"Please release your game on PC so we can modify it because we don't think your vision of your game will be good enough".

That show of faith in Rockstar's work is really going to make them want to release it on the PC. They should really be saying that they want a PC release so they can buy and enjoy the game on their PC, not because it will be a barely adequate game that they can "improve" because they know better than the game's makers.

Just ask Bethesda, Valve or Bohemia Interactive how insulted they are that their games have spawned thriving modding communities.

-Bethesda always releases a "construction set" and their games consistently sell high for a long time, not just the first week
(Skyrim is STILL 59.99$! It's also the 4th most-played game on Steam on this uneventful November 27th)

-Valve have created Steam Workshop for just that purpose. Also, let's not that tiny little mod called Counter-Strike

-Bohemia Interactive's ArmA II: Combined Operations is regularly a top-seller on Steam since Day-Z has become a thing and they've even hired Dean "Rocket" Hall to create Day-Z as its own entire game alongside ArmA III

Rockstar have never released a construction kit or similar mod making tool for any of their games, but their publishers have had to pay out over $20 million due to the results of people fiddling with their game's source code, so maybe they have a different view on modding that these other companies and going back to my original point, perhaps using such modding as the main persuasive argument in a petition for them to release GTA V on PC won't work as well as it may on a more mod friendly developer such as Bethesda, Bohemia or Valve.

I'm not saying all modding is bad and despised by all developers, I'm just saying that it's not the best argument to use in order to persuade Rockstar, who have faced the backlash of unauthorised modding of their games in the past.

 

[Strazdas]

Spoiler

Someone's afraid of pirates.

Only reason for this. Even if the port both cost a lot of money to make (as far as ports go) and turned out to be complete shit, it would still be practically impossible for them not to make a profit off of it. What they're worried about is that people who are going to buy it on consoles would not buy it at all were it to be released on PC.

So, basically, GTA 4 all over again? no thanks id rather have no PC port than oen as bad as GTA 4.
what happened to the days when rockstar created games for PC and ported them to consoles.... oh right, the whole whining of "consoles taking over" happened.

Cpacha: oh, you

So, looking at it from the perspective of Rockstar's CFO, do you invest all that time and money to earn, if you're very lucky, a couple of hundred grand out of it, or do you invest it in making more DLC for the console versions?

For PC gamers that is the wrong decision. For the business side of the company, it is currently the right decision, but things change over time.

so your implying that only 64.000 people will buy the game total? what if, say, like in GTA 4 the PC sales will run over 3 millions? that makes it what? 100 millions in profit?

Rockstar have never released a construction kit or similar mod making tool for any of their games, but their publishers have had to pay out over $20 million due to the results of people fiddling with their game's source code, so maybe they have a different view on modding that these other companies and going back to my original point, perhaps using such modding as the main persuasive argument in a petition for them to release GTA V on PC won't work as well as it may on a more mod friendly developer such as Bethesda, Bohemia or Valve.

frankly i cant understand how a 18+ rated game having a 18+ rated mod makes for a lawsuit. whoever decided that rockstar has to pay because someone made a mod for it should be committed to mental asylum, and since he hasnt been i can understand rockstars hate for mods, because frankly the world isn't smart enough for them yet. you people dont deserve cool mods.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I guess Microsoft and Sony are paying big money for those exclusivity contracts. Look at the industry; THQ (Space Marine, Saints Row 3) and Square-Enix (Deus Ex Human Revolution) were two of the biggest names, now they are circling the drain. They weren't big on format exclusivity and now, ironically, they are paying the price.

 

[Jamous]

Well you can count me in for this. Very much looking forward to it.