6th Grader Shoots Potential Rapist

[JochemHippie]

Self defense is usually just putting yourself in harms way, better to just cooperate then die trying to defend your wallet.

So you live in a world where people who assault you wear signs that indicate immediately that a burglar/mugger really is just after your wallet and not out to kill you?

Man, Sharon Tate could have used that kind of set up, don't you think?

Why'd they be out to kill me? Most are just in it for easy money, it's easier to get away with burglary then murder in any case. Not even taking in account that there's no extra money in committing an unnecessary murder.

 

[JochemHippie]

Why'd they be out to kill me?

Because you're there.

When Tex Watson and the rest of the Manson crew were asked by their victims why they were being targeted, the answer was "You answered the door."

Could also be a gang initiation crime. Not more than 2 miles from me, the manager of a Pizza Plus and his wife had their throats slashed, and not a single cent taken. The kids that did it did it to get into a gang.

You assume murderers need motivation to do it. Or at least motivation you can understand.

You assume all burglurs are in essence murderers.

Which you base on a case from the late 60's and an incident in your surroundings.

 

[JochemHippie]

Why'd they be out to kill me?

Because you're there.

When Tex Watson and the rest of the Manson crew were asked by their victims why they were being targeted, the answer was "You answered the door."

Could also be a gang initiation crime. Not more than 2 miles from me, the manager of a Pizza Plus and his wife had their throats slashed, and not a single cent taken. The kids that did it did it to get into a gang.

You assume murderers need motivation to do it. Or at least motivation you can understand.

You assume all burglurs are in essence murderers.

Which you base on a case from the late 60's and an incident in your surroundings.

Why shouldn't I assume someone willing to break into my house, especially if I'm in it, isn't out to do me harm?

And child..I can cite a whole LOT more than the Manson killings as examples, if you want a wall of text. You're talking to a true crime enthusiast.

For your stuff?
Seriously, isn't the whole point of burglarizing a place taking the valuables? Car keys, house keys, etc?

The incidents in which it ends violent are the cases in which they made a mistake somewhere and the person is home, which is if possible naturally avoided. It's not like they just decide on a hunch where to break into...

Unless we both have a very different insight on the terminology here, I have no idea how we're disagreeing.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

No really, tell me more about how right you are. Just taking away all guns from a culture that has had guns in civilian possession since the later 1700's will always make things better.

While im on the fence about gun control laws this argument is beyond stupid.

Where the HELL do you live where you say "This is the law" and people say "Why should we follow it?" And you say "... erm... er... we have no way of making you... because we ask you to?". You see in my country we have a police force and a justice system with courts and jails and judges and its been working pretty damn nicely for a few thousand years. I mean by your logic a criminal, who doesnt follow laws, could walk into the whitehouse RIGHT NOW and ransom the president for a billion dollars. Because hes a criminal right? He doesnt need to follow laws. Therefor he can totally ignore all of them with no consequence. Oh wait. He cant. Laws are enforced. By the police. Are you in Somalia right now? Unless you are that argument doesnt hold up. Your described situation indicates criminals are super heros. Totally able to do anything they want at all times. They have thrown off the shackles of the law and can behave in ALL the ways and NO ONE STOPS THEM!

FYI i think gun control in America is a bad idea. Dont even think about straw manning me.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

Its interesting how different sources show wildly different results. Here are my two most trusted sources for this matter:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

Which shows the US homicide rate to be 4.8 per 100,000 in 2010

Then we have these figures from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384 (The giant spike was because of a terrorist attack and a rogue doctor who purposefully murdered his patients)

610 homicides in the UK in 2010. The population of the UK is 62,641,000. Thats 626 hundred thousand with 610 homicides. Therefor the rate in England is about 0.97.

Now we tackle the other variables, unemployment and socio-economic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117

7.9% in the UK in 2010. In america at this time unemployment was 9.6% which can contribute to the increase in violent crime. Culture is the largest part of this equation which finally dictates my view. American culture is pretty gun laden. Guns exist in your society already. In your culture. In your history. In England we dont have that same attachment at all. Honestly i feel a "hand in" is totally ridiculous. Easier to keep something out to begin with (especially when youre an island) than to remove it when it permeates the country so fully. As such i conclude leaving Americas guns alone is the safest option. Similarly England is safer without guns being introduced from scratch, it isnt part of our culture and i doubt we would take to it at all as a people. I think everyone is better off as they are than trying to force a cultural change.

 

[Vegosiux]

I am now waiting for 3 pages for him to finally show me the numbers that support his claim that 99.9% of all burglars are harmless people who'll only shake your hand and walk away if you catch them while they are in the process of stealing your shit.

After calling him out on making unsupported claims the worst things you can do is claim that he said that, since he never did.

Just sayin'.

Oh and by the way, he's right-wing.

And I got a warning for making a similar post in R&P the other day, without actually calling anyone names, even, just stating that they're unwilling to discuss things properly.

Just sayin' that too.

But seriously. Don't call people "stoners". It's rude.

 

[Moderated]

snip

So, what do you think is good punishment for serial rapist-murderers?

 

[spartan231490]

SNIP

Its interesting how different sources show wildly different results. Here are my two most trusted sources for this matter:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

Which shows the US homicide rate to be 4.8 per 100,000 in 2010

Then we have these figures from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384 (The giant spike was because of a terrorist attack and a rogue doctor who purposefully murdered his patients)

610 homicides in the UK in 2010. The population of the UK is 62,641,000. Thats 626 hundred thousand with 610 homicides. Therefor the rate in England is about 0.97.

Now we tackle the other variables, unemployment and socio-economic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117

7.9% in the UK in 2010. In america at this time unemployment was 9.6% which can contribute to the increase in violent crime. Culture is the largest part of this equation which finally dictates my view. American culture is pretty gun laden. Guns exist in your society already. In your culture. In your history. In England we dont have that same attachment at all. Honestly i feel a "hand in" is totally ridiculous. Easier to keep something out to begin with (especially when youre an island) than to remove it when it permeates the country so fully. As such i conclude leaving Americas guns alone is the safest option. Similarly England is safer without guns being introduced from scratch, it isnt part of our culture and i doubt we would take to it at all as a people. I think everyone is better off as they are than trying to force a cultural change.

What are you trying to say? There is no point comparing UK to US, not only are they so culturally different, but 2 data points is not enough to draw a conclusion. When I said UK murder rate was higher, I was comparing it to the UK before the laws restricting guns were put into place there, not to the US. That was very clear.

 

[Vegosiux]

snip

So, what do you think is good punishment for serial rapist-murderers?

Who in this story is a serial rapist-murderer, if I might ask?

Also, what would a good punishment for a real one be? That depends entirely on why he did it. If he's mentally ill, closed section of a loony bin, otherwise, incarceration in a prison, of course.

 

[Moderated]

snip

Lets say the serial rapist-murderer breaks out of prison 3 times in a row.
Then what would his punishment be?

 

[Vegosiux]

snip

Lets say the serial rapist-murderer breaks out of prison 3 times in a row.
Then what would his punishment be?

How about you answer the question I have asked, as well?

But okay, I'll be nice and answer yours: "Let's say that's a loaded hypothetical, suggesting some gross incompetence of the law enforcement." Or "Let's say whatever the punishment for breaking out of prison is."

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

snip

Lets say the serial rapist-murderer breaks out of prison 3 times in a row.
Then what would his punishment be?

Locked up in a better prison, of course.

Look, I detest violent crime as much (and perhaps more so) than the average person. But lex talionis as a method of justice simply doesn't work.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

What are you trying to say? There is no point comparing UK to US, not only are they so culturally different, but 2 data points is not enough to draw a conclusion. When I said UK murder rate was higher, I was comparing it to the UK before the laws restricting guns were put into place there, not to the US. That was very clear.

I imagined you would respond this way. At what point CAN we compare? Whats the arbitrary line of "similar enough" after which a comparison is possible between two distinct geographical places. You claim cities with stricter gun control have higher claim earlier yes (unless that wasnt you in which case forgive me). Can we even compare two american cities? Can we compare the two towns near my home town about 30 mins away? When is different too different for a comparison. Surely no conclusion can be drawn at all about guns being good/bad if such comparisons are impossible.