8 Bit Philosophy: Do Animals Deserve Human Rights (Pokemon + Speciesism)

8-Bit Philosophy

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Do Animals Deserve Human Rights (Pokemon + Speciesism)

Press Start for ?Should Animals Have Human Rights?? by 8-Bit Philosophy, where classic video games introduce famous thinkers, problems, and concepts with quotes, teachings, and more.

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MonsterCrit

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Feb 17, 2015
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Johnny Novgorod said:
I would eat Pikachu-bacon in a heartbeat.
With a side of DItto Fries. Though the point becomes more complicated. After all if you have to be all moral about animals one has to do the same for plants. Plants do exhibit pain response. which kinda a sucks for vegans and vegitarians. I mean that makes them technically more evil than meat eaters. At least the COw had the ability to put up a fight (and given how many people are fatally injured by cows each year). BUt a Cabbage had no chance.

Worse. My steak was dead when I through it on the grill. A Carrot, once plucked can sprout again if placed under the right conditions. Meaning a carrot in your crisper is still allive. Which means when you through your carrot in the juicer to make you carrot juice... IT was still alive...
 

Doom972

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MonsterCrit said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
I would eat Pikachu-bacon in a heartbeat.
With a side of DItto Fries. Though the point becomes more complicated. After all if you have to be all moral about animals one has to do the same for plants. Plants do exhibit pain response. which kinda a sucks for vegans and vegitarians. I mean that makes them technically more evil than meat eaters. At least the COw had the ability to put up a fight (and given how many people are fatally injured by cows each year). BUt a Cabbage had no chance.

Worse. My steak was dead when I through it on the grill. A Carrot, once plucked can sprout again if placed under the right conditions. Meaning a carrot in your crisper is still allive. Which means when you through your carrot in the juicer to make you carrot juice... IT was still alive...
Exactly. Everything we can consume for nourishment has DNA and is therefore a living thing. Just because it doesn't have a mouth and can't scream in agony doesn't mean it's not suffering. Also, I wonder what your typical vegan's stance on killing bugs.
 

MonsterCrit

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Doom972 said:
Exactly. Everything we can consume for nourishment has DNA and is therefore a living thing. Just because it doesn't have a mouth and can't scream in agony doesn't mean it's not suffering. Also, I wonder what your typical vegan's stance on killing bugs.
Actually there are now more than a few food products that have nothing natural in them...
 

LysanderNemoinis

Noble and oppressed Kekistani
Nov 8, 2010
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I'm surprised...well, actually I'm NOT surprised that 8-Bit Philosophy didn't mention some of Singer's other theories and beliefs -- like how parents should have the right to kill their handicapped children after they've been born or that it's okay for people to have sex with animals so long as they can somehow "prove" they're not hurting the animal by doing so. Peter Singer is a reprehensible human being, and no one should take this sick bastard seriously.
 

Doom972

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MonsterCrit said:
Doom972 said:
Exactly. Everything we can consume for nourishment has DNA and is therefore a living thing. Just because it doesn't have a mouth and can't scream in agony doesn't mean it's not suffering. Also, I wonder what your typical vegan's stance on killing bugs.
Actually there are now more than a few food products that have nothing natural in them...
Yes, but if you subsist only on these, you'll be missing vital nutrients which will lead to an early death.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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LysanderNemoinis said:
I'm surprised...well, actually I'm NOT surprised that 8-Bit Philosophy didn't mention some of Singer's other theories and beliefs -- like how parents should have the right to kill their handicapped children after they've been born or that it's okay for people to have sex with animals so long as they can somehow "prove" they're not hurting the animal by doing so. Peter Singer is a reprehensible human being, and no one should take this sick bastard seriously.
Isn't that a bit of an ad hominem? Just because a person says something mad, it doesn't mean that they are completely incapable of providing something useful :p

OP: Eh I don't know. I don't like pork cause of the taste and smell, so I have practically migrated over to beef and chicken as meat, as well as a good range of fish.

I don't know, I like the taste of good steak a bit too much to give it up, though it's entirely possible for me to do.
 

TruthInGaming

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I derive my value of human beings from religious views that every human despite their condition was made in the image of God. I derive my value of animals in that as a human being I have been placed with the abilities and directive as a steward over them. Do animals deserve moral treatment? I would have to say yes. Would I eat the bacon? Yes. Is eating bacon devoid of moral treatment? No.
 

Baresark

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LysanderNemoinis said:
I'm surprised...well, actually I'm NOT surprised that 8-Bit Philosophy didn't mention some of Singer's other theories and beliefs -- like how parents should have the right to kill their handicapped children after they've been born or that it's okay for people to have sex with animals so long as they can somehow "prove" they're not hurting the animal by doing so. Peter Singer is a reprehensible human being, and no one should take this sick bastard seriously.
While I agree that he was far from a golden human being, we can't just say he said these things we didn't like, so nothing he says should count. A lot of people out there have habits or act in ways that I don't like or care for, but that does not mean they shouldn't have an opinion or that there opinion carries with it no merit.

OT: I think animals do have some level of inalienable rights. Rationally, that makes perfect sense to me. That said, hurting a human by accident can land you in jail. Should it be the same for an animal? I don't think it should. If a child runs out in the street and we hit that child with our car, we face potential serious consequences because as the driver it is our job to watch out for these things. But when a dog or a squirrel does the same, should we face the same consequences? I don't think we should. As it stands, some animals are protected and you face sometimes worse consequences for killing one. For example, in NJ we sometimes have a bear season to keep the population down. But if you kill a bear outside a hunt year you face $10k in fines and up to 10 years in prison. I think this is ridiculous and there is extenuating circumstances like if your family is playing outside and bear wanders into the yard, should you not be able to protect them? I would say yes, but there are animal rights groups that say no, we have no right to protect ourselves.

But if we treat them the same as people, we can say that they have the same inalienable rights as us (ie. life and the pursuit of happiness). And just like in the case of people, those rights are protected so long as they don't rob someone else of those same rights. Meaning that you have the right to defend your home if someone invades it, including animals.

But it gets tricky when you look at the situation of people existing in the wild along with an animal. They don't own anything. So it can't be OK if we are out hiking and get attacked by an animal.

The truth is it's real tricky. Rights as animals go is not the same as rights as people go, no matter how you try to reason it out. I am looking at this as rational as I can, but one thing certain: People are not rational, and animals are far far far less rational than we are.
 

JohnZ117

A blind man before the Elephant
Jun 19, 2012
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+1 to MonterCrit, but I also highly disagree that pain itself is a wrong. The sensation of pain is felt as a way to avoid harm. Example, a metal pot is heating on your stove. You touch it. The burn is intense, so you withdraw immediately. Remove the mentioned sensation and you may lose your arm, or worse. Pain, when we use it well, can be just as valuable as the other senses.
 

go-10

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Feb 3, 2010
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I wouldn't eat Pikachu bacon because he's a mouse and I imagine mouse meat must taste rather bad. Now Tepig/Pignite/Emboar bacon I would totally eat it! Specially if it was part of a Miltank burger :)
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
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JohnZ117 said:
+1 to MonterCrit, but I also highly disagree that pain itself is a wrong. The sensation of pain is felt as a way to avoid harm. Example, a metal pot is heating on your stove. You touch it. The burn is intense, so you withdraw immediately. Remove the mentioned sensation and you may lose your arm, or worse. Pain, when we use it well, can be just as valuable as the other senses.
There are also those who derive pleasure from pain. So, if pain is inherently wrong, you are passing judgement on those who find it pleasurable.

OT: Who would eat Pickachu bacon? It's a mouse. Let the Meowths deal with the vermin. I'll take my bacon from Tepig and my steaks and burgers from Miltank, thank you very much.
 

JohnZ117

A blind man before the Elephant
Jun 19, 2012
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Saltyk said:
JohnZ117 said:
+1 to MonterCrit, but I also highly disagree that pain itself is a wrong. The sensation of pain is felt as a way to avoid harm. Example, a metal pot is heating on your stove. You touch it. The burn is intense, so you withdraw immediately. Remove the mentioned sensation and you may lose your arm, or worse. Pain, when we use it well, can be just as valuable as the other senses.
There are also those who derive pleasure from pain. So, if pain is inherently wrong, you are passing judgement on those who find it pleasurable.
I know of that pleasure and, generally typing, find nothing wrong with it. I chose a less controversial argument to better explain my position.
 

8-Bit Philosophy

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Feb 9, 2015
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Treating animals with respect is crucial. And I think the mental thought of animals can be seen as non-equivalent to humans. How one branch of apes think is very different to another, and we are talking biological bases before going into thought basis of the individual, say how male bonobos would act in a situation compared to a male chimpanzees. And this is just from the hominidae family. Anecdotally I watched many different animals being clever in their own way, being encouraged to expand it helped both the pet and owner enrich their lifestyle. Animals should have rights, even if we consume them mind. And if the animal objects to this, there's always a court of law to settle the statement, if one can find one where this can be settled. And I don't mean animal protection groups representations. Most of them have selfish, company only intentions.
See this opens a can of worms we as a species have not opened ourselves yet to, if we ever do. Hell we struggle with representations in governments to reflect the wide public and not that of political parties, companies or the individuals. It's good we ask these questions. He have others which are more important & they need attention.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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Johnny Novgorod said:
I would eat Pikachu-bacon in a heartbeat.
So long as it didn't electrocute me. Hell yeah.

I've eaten Puffin. You seen a Puffin? They're fucking adorable! Didn't stop me.
 

Ukomba

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Oct 14, 2010
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That all seemed less like an argument for animal rights and more an argument to use as many drugs as possible. Pleasure being the only intrinsically good means taking Extacy would be the best thing you could possibly do. While at the same time having a job, working out in the gym, or going to the dentist would be terrible. My dog acts that way. She'll pig out on food till she's sick, and avoids going to the vet at all costs.

Funny, following that definition of what is good and what is bad would turn people into animals. Flawed reasoning.
 

Amir Kondori

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Apr 11, 2013
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While I believe animals can experience pain and that is immoral to hurt them I also take a pragmatic view that I enjoy eating many animals and animal products. I am all for society regulating the treatment of animals to try and eliminate abuse while at the same time allowing for the harvesting of animals for food. I believe the animals should be treated as well as possible while being harvested and that their pain and mental anguish should be minimized as much as practically possible but I do not believe that an animal's capacity to feel pain, both physical and mental, is enough to justify outlawing the consumption of animals and animal products as food.
 

Jacked Assassin

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Jun 4, 2010
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I'm pretty certain the majority of things I eat were once living. This includes plants which weren't mentioned in this video. So I can't prevent anything living with or without a brain from being killed without starving.

However I'm all for anything else alive that isn't human getting human rights IF it could ever learn how to verbally communicate or write properly in a human language & obey the same laws as humans.
 

Amir Kondori

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Apr 11, 2013
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Ukomba said:
That all seemed less like an argument for animal rights and more an argument to use as many drugs as possible. Pleasure being the only intrinsically good means taking Extacy would be the best thing you could possibly do. While at the same time having a job, working out in the gym, or going to the dentist would be terrible. My dog acts that way. She'll pig out on food till she's sick, and avoids going to the vet at all costs.

Funny, following that definition of what is good and what is bad would turn people into animals. Flawed reasoning.
Having a job, working out and going to the dentist may not feel good at the time but they do provide long term good feelings. You earn money from the job with witch you can pay for clothing, food, and shelter, as well as other pleasurable things, working out lets you stay healthy so that you have a higher quality of life and going to the dentist prevents painful tooth decay.