8-year-old's Uzi death at gun show

[BGH122]

Yet the Americans are still so firm about defending their right to bear arms, you never seem to hear about guns saving people just constant tragic accidents and attacks with them.

You do know my country's obsession with guns is a result of a supreme court bastardization of a constitutional right for MILITIAS to bear arms. Damn Republican judges had to change it to the individual's stupid, stupid right

sorry, that sounded a bit condescending. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that our modern interpretation of the second amendment wasn't at all what the founding fathers had in mind

Actually this is total twaddle. Watch the Penn & Teller episode on it. The amendment reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It is very clear that they've used the word 'people' there in the same sense they've used the word 'people' in every other part of the constitution and every other proclamation of its time i.e. "We, the people" the United States of America.

And before you try to dredge up some tired plebeian and frankly teenage liberal ad-hominem, I'm neither a republican nor an American.

 

[SilentHunter7]

You realize there HAVE been VERY YOUNG people who have gotten helicopter licenses.
Like, far younger than you or I.

How many of these young people are flying helicopters owned by people they just met at airshows? Better yet, how many unlicensed 8-year olds are flying helicopters owned by people they just met at air shows?

 

[cobra_ky]

I would tend to agree with you man, but I must say this is pretty tragic and awful. However, this is obviously only in the news because of the circumstances (involved a gun) and because the Huffington Post is the biggest liberal bullshit news source ever created. I'm not saying the story isn't true, just watch where you get all your info.

Had an 8-year-old shot himself with a ham sandwich, i'm sure that would have made news as well. And don't make the mistake of confusing a news outlet's reporting with its articles of opinion.

Here's the Boston Globe article on the matter.

 

[Daveman]

1. It isn't crossing the line, because I honestly believed it to be hilarious and I am still chuckling.

2. Not even going into this one.

3. Actually, negative side effects of ecstasy are essentially 90 percent, where peanut are far lower. Of course, your definition of "negative" may vary.

4. Those who die from flu vaccines would have almost certainly NOT died from the flu itself, due to herd protection, and due to viroid mutations.

All of your arguments are just bad.

1)wtf? it does because of the obvious offense it causes to people. if you deny that that is not what crossing the line is, at least by the forum rules (the nearest thing we have to law here), then I give up.

2)I didn't think you'd bother actually getting any real statistics to back up your argument. I just wanted to point it out.

3) I do not mean "coming down". here we go. the old wiki... 1 in 10,000 of ecstasy episodes involve acute harm to the person. 0.5% of the population suffer nut allergies so 1 in 200. it's a big difference.

4) now I know you're bullshitting, wtf do mutations have to do with dieing from flu vaccines?

 

[SilentHunter7]

Had an 8-year-old shot himself with a ham sandwich, i'm sure that would have made news as well.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if that were to happen, it would have more press.

 

[Zac_Dai]

Hahhaha, hilarious! Doubly hilarious with some of the commentary here!

Why not go to a gun show?
How is an art exhibit any more or less wrong for an 8 year old, considering guns kill far less children then the bus he had to take every day of his life?

This was a hilarious tragedy which is made even more hilarious because it will provoke people who don't think logically to say "well gosh, if only he hadn't been allowed near guns"!

Yes, guns are terrible instruments of life and death, but when we live in a world where the car is far more of a blood god than anything actually designed for destruction, the rules may just be a bit different from what your intuition tells you.

tl;dr: this wasn't sad or tragic at all.

You forget we don't allow 8 year olds to drive cars for the exact same reaosn why common sense says we don't let 8 year olds fire guns.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Canada has more guns per person than America, yet significantly less crime. Obviously, the guns aren't going off by themselves, now are they?

Can you cite your source for that statistic, please?

Since guns per capita seems to be a central tenet of your argument, an inability to cite this most fundamental supporting statistic does not look good.

 

[WickedSkin]

Being European and seeing this I must say: Shit happens.

 

[literallyanythingelse]

That simply conflicts with almost all of child psychology.
Basic "critical point" research has indicated that anywhere from 3 - 6 critical stages characterize developmental psychology. Egocentrism is Freudian and widely discounted in favor of actual empirical research, which conflicts wildly with Freuds three stage mind set.

And, again, as stated before, it ISN'T safer to restrict weapons in that manner.
It is FAR safer to allow guns in at an early stage (according to statistics) or to disallow them completely.

Any intermediate such as your suggestion causes a severe increase in incidents.

Oh for christ's sake, don't pull out "child psychology" as evidence. Nearly all psychological experiments have just as much evidence contradicting the conclusion as they do supporting them. Especially Freud's theories.

Which is why I just contradicted Freud's arguments.

Also, you are so wrong it isn't even funny on so many accounts. Many experiments have shown clear cut correlations.

Ok fair dos, you called me out on my non-existent psychology know-how. I'll pull out of the psychology debate.

However, it seems to me that you are pulling facts out of thin air, without providing references. You even used the phrase "statistics show" (shock! horror!). Basically I'm saying back your statements up.

With respect to the OT, I can't see how anyone could think that giving an 8 year old, 15 year old or in fact anyone without a licence a gun would be a good idea (if you read the article that Woem linked you'll see this specific event allowed underage and unlicensed attendents to use weapons against the state/county law). I know I would be uncomfortable letting my 14 year old brother anywhere near an air rifle. In fact, I don't think I know anyone I'd trust with a gun, myself included.
Yes, you can claim that if they are trained early on then they'll learn respect for firearms' power, etc, but this clearly isn't true in practice - look at the rate of car accident deaths in people who have <a href=http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html>just got their licence (i.e. 16-25) compared to other age groups. You would have thought that someone just out of training would have the lessons more firmly drilled into them than someone who has been driving (or shooting) for years. But this isn't the case, they go "hur luk wot I can doo" and try and overtake on a blind bend or shoot a squirrel or something and end up causing accidents.
You don't give an 8 year old a gun because they don't have the experience or the maturity to deal with the responsibility. Same is true for a 15 year old.

EDIT: Noticed the link <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate>educated fool provided showed that unintentional deaths by firearm in the US are about 3 times as high as in the other countries listed. Coincidence?

 

[SilentHunter7]

Canada has more guns per person than America, yet significantly less crime. Obviously, the guns aren't going off by themselves, now are they?

Can you cite your source for that statistic, please?

Since guns per capita seems to be a central tenet of your argument, an inability to cite this most fundamental supporting statistic does not look good.

Allow me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

United States -- 9 guns for every 10 residents.
Canada -- ~3 guns for every 10 residents.

I think I found the reason he's not citing his sources.

 

[LiftYourSkinnyFists]

Only in america...

 

[Velocirapture07]

I would tend to agree with you man, but I must say this is pretty tragic and awful. However, this is obviously only in the news because of the circumstances (involved a gun) and because the Huffington Post is the biggest liberal bullshit news source ever created. I'm not saying the story isn't true, just watch where you get all your info.

Had an 8-year-old shot himself with a ham sandwich, i'm sure that would have made news as well. And don't make the mistake of confusing a news outlet's reporting with its articles of opinion.

Fair enough. Your bit about the ham sandwich made me laugh a little, but I'm still not convinced it is a groundbreaking news article. Guns are dangerous, yes, and sometimes tragic things happen when the untrained use them. This story just happens to be exceptionally horrible, and as such is the perfect fodder for the anti-gun media.

I'm not convinced this is a sign that guns should be taken away from anyone. Thank you for providing that other source though, but to be fair The Boston Globe has long been known as an extremely liberally biased newspaper.

None of that changes that fact that this tragedy did in fact happen though. The parents are at fault as well as the instructor or whatever he was.

 

[mechanixis]

Hahhaha, hilarious! Doubly hilarious with some of the commentary here!

Why not go to a gun show?
How is an art exhibit any more or less wrong for an 8 year old, considering guns kill far less children then the bus he had to take every day of his life?

This was a hilarious tragedy which is made even more hilarious because it will provoke people who don't think logically to say "well gosh, if only he hadn't been allowed near guns"!

Yes, guns are terrible instruments of life and death, but when we live in a world where the car is far more of a blood god than anything actually designed for destruction, the rules may just be a bit different from what your intuition tells you.

tl;dr: this wasn't sad or tragic at all.

I think invoking tl;dr automatically renders any argument you make irrelevant because it's like saying "I couldn't be bothered to think about this!"

You are really talking nonsense. This wasn't just about the kid being near guns, it was about handing him one. That's like the bus driver turning to the kid on his first day of school and saying "Hey, kiddo, wanna drive? Because driving is awesome." You obviously entered this argument wanting to defend the right to bear arms and rationalized the rest of it from there.

You are just...hilarious.

 

[TheMatt]

Thank God I do not live in the states and their crazy "guns are fun for everyone attitude."

 

[SilentHunter7]

Thank God I do not live in the states and their crazy "guns are fun for everyone attitude."

That's only in the worst parts of the reddest of the red-states. Don't attack my country with sweeping generalizations like that.

 

[dancinginfernal]

Poor kid. At this point I this thread may sound like a broken record made of woe, but I feel bad for the kid. I'm willing to bet he had no idea what he was getting into. I'm curious, were the parents even watching their kid? I'm quite willing to believe an 8 year old wouldn't know how dangerous an Uzi is, so I'm hoping supervision was there.

Also, why was a 15 year old handing guns over to an 8 year old child in the first place? It seems a bit backwards. The parents apparently weren't the brightest kids on the block, bringing an 8 year old to a gun show in the first place. I think their parenting skills were partially to blame, not the 15 year old entirely.

 

[Lamppenkeyboard]

Oh god parents in my country can get stupid.

 

[TheMatt]

Thank God I do not live in the states and their crazy "guns are fun for everyone attitude."

That's only in the worst parts of the red-states. In Pennsylvania, we're much more sensible about stuff like that.

Massachusetts is a bad state? Isn't it the home of your 2 best schools? MIT and Harvard? Shit man, if this is a "good" red state, I am afeared of the bad ones. Wait a second, I was already scared shitless of them so I suppose this only compounds the issue.

This is just another example of classic (yes, I said classic) American culture. Guns are great and safe! Eight year old dies.

As per your media you have the BEST healthcare anywhere in the world. According to actual statistics you guys are like 36th or something. Right behind Paraguay, yet your media keeps talking about how awesome it is. It is insane.

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

Two words people - RANGE. SAFETY.