Commentary on ?The Wolf and the Lion?
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
I think I deserved a CMOA for hooking my mom on a song of Ice and fire. Even got her to go out and read the books.
OH man...that episode was damn good.
Although I disagree with one thing; you said that Theon Greyjoy gets a 'lukewarm' reception from his sister Asha when he gets back?
Although I disagree with one thing; you said that Theon Greyjoy gets a 'lukewarm' reception from his sister Asha when he gets back?
Well, that certainly isn't how I remember it, if you catch my drift. Nudge nudge wink wink etc etc
Personally, I was a bit upset with how the mountain raiders were depicted, they looked a little bit less like a bunch of well, bloodthirsty raiders out to kill and pillage what they could, and more like some random soldiers who had happened upon the group. I know my sister, who was watching with me, needed it explained to her that the men who had just attacked weren't run of the mill soldiers.
BRONN!!!!! (I wish one word post was allowed, definitely my favorite character next to Lady B of T, and Jaime).
Another funny thing I just remembered was how some people were complaining about the lack of male nudity in TV Shows, hope Theon provided them a good time.
Another funny thing I just remembered was how some people were complaining about the lack of male nudity in TV Shows, hope Theon provided them a good time.
The Diabolical Biz said:
Well it was ... until he found out it was his sister
I think most people probably understood the "I want to see him fly, mother!" line-- the keep is called The Eyrie after all.
In regards to how the production staff has taken what might be considered 'liberties' with some of the scenes, I think that was an intentional decision. It strikes me that they anticipated an audience much wider than just the fans of the book, and feared that if everything was subtle and nuanced, many of that segment of the audience would miss out, and subsequently become frustrated. That's why you see stuff like the incestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the explicit encounter between Loras and Renly. It spells out what is only hinted at in the books.
Plus, it doesn't hurt that sometimes an explicit presentation saves time.
I do have to say that I'm... uncomfortably enjoying the series. It's far more intense than the books (which I felt were rather dry).
In regards to how the production staff has taken what might be considered 'liberties' with some of the scenes, I think that was an intentional decision. It strikes me that they anticipated an audience much wider than just the fans of the book, and feared that if everything was subtle and nuanced, many of that segment of the audience would miss out, and subsequently become frustrated. That's why you see stuff like the incestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the explicit encounter between Loras and Renly. It spells out what is only hinted at in the books.
Plus, it doesn't hurt that sometimes an explicit presentation saves time.
I do have to say that I'm... uncomfortably enjoying the series. It's far more intense than the books (which I felt were rather dry).
Yeah, the "I want to see him fly, mother!" was bloody obvious if you have half a brain. No need to wait for the third season to see someone fly out of the cockoo's nest.
Alas, having never read the book, I can only hope that the next casualties will be on the other side.
The nudity & sex scenes still seem to be "forced" instead of being integral parts. In a "HAH! We can show this, choke on the manly parts, censors!" way.
Alas, having never read the book, I can only hope that the next casualties will be on the other side.
The nudity & sex scenes still seem to be "forced" instead of being integral parts. In a "HAH! We can show this, choke on the manly parts, censors!" way.
Is it just me, or is the combat really slow? Whenever I watch them fight, I always wonder why they bother to parry. It would seem like a better strategy would be to step to the side slowly and behead them... slowly. Then it makes me think about them having to do it for actor safety, totally ruins the immersion.
to be fair, sean bean is getting on a bit, and well yeah, actor safety and all that.Rationalization said:
I have to say though, this was a darn good episode. The best yet i think.
I'm no expert on medieval warfare, but you have to realise just how heavy these weapons are. It's not like a video game, where speed is determined by animations and numbers - and lets not forget that a single hit will ruin your day. Also, the whole combat style is very different from Eastern martial arts - Chinese styles with their light flexible blades and rapid movements that turns combat into a dance or Japanese Katana swordplay that works with relatively light, extremely sharp blades (slicing and dicing through padded armour and flesh) that are very different to the big, heavy western broadswords (designed to cleave through mail and plate armour, and then through flesh and bone, in one decent swing).Rationalization said:
All that aside, most of the fights in the show I've felt have had an impressive physicality to them, especially the ones at the North gate with punches and elbows being thrown in - a lot more real and physical than, say, some of Kill Bill's scenes.
But yeah, I can see your point that it's easy to say 'just do that and you win instantly' - in the duel at the end, Ned over-reached and stumbled, but Lannister didn't or couldn't capitalise on it. Things like that kind of add to it for me, though, because it just shows that these guys are human and not artificially awesome war machines.
OT, Jory catching an eye-full of knife was surprising and shocking - he was the kickass reliable dude in the back! How dare he get slaughtered so easily! Loving the show, it's pleasantly unpredictable and seems to be developing beautifully in a way that so very few shows do. I guess it just goes to show how solid the writing of the books is! I wonder if a Wheel of Time adaptation would be anything like as good... god knows that there would be plenty of chaff to trim out.
the average longsword weighs between 3 and 4lbs, whils some are as light as 2.8 lbs. my hand and a half sword is 3&1/2 lbs. A katana should be somewhere between 2'5 and 3lbs you can use both with very similar speed and fluidity with proper training. Its also impossible for a sword to even pierce plate armour from a slashing attack, and even still its unlikely for a good strong thrust to pierce it either. a thrust will quite easily penetrate maille, which is why you aim for the weak spots such as the armpit and throat.Wicky_42 said:
And real combat is far less certain than the choreographed stuff you usually see, making it slower.
I always like it when someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about responds :] I was under the impression that heavy longswords could break plate? You know what the difference in metal forging between katanas and longswords means in terms of weapon use? Is there a difference, or is the difference in fighting style more down to other aspects?EMFCRACKSHOT said:
This show for me is currently like a drug, I just can't wait for each episode. Now of course that's a clear sign I should read the book but thus far I might as well stick to what I currently know.
Exactly, but the swords that are shown arn't always the mountain that rides sword, or the sword Ned used for beheading in the first episode.Wicky_42 said:
properly tempered plate was pretty much impenetrable by swords. it had its weak spots, especially at the joints where they were only protected by maille, but these were more easily exploited with weapons such as halberds. You could bend, and cave it in with a heavy blow, but not cut it open. It was more preferable to grappling with your oppenet and pierce weak points with a good daggerWicky_42 said:
Of course, plate armour was expensive and not as common as is often portrayed with maille being the norm. And the longsword was often used for defence in civilian life, leading to many fights between unarmoured opponents. There is a considerable difference in fighting styles depending upon if armour is involved or not.
As for the forging process, it is indeed different, due to the poor quality and scarcity of metal ores in japan. This is only really of importance in determining the strength of the blade however. Its the actual shape of the blades that have a greatest effect on fighting style though as does culture to a lesser degree. The chinese hsing straight sword uses many similar techniques to those found in european fighting styles for example. There is some small variation in the footwork and stuff but most of the basics are the same.
As someone who took almost a minor's worth of classes in 'Ancient Warfare' in college, I can tell you that EMFCRACKSHOT generally has it right.
Once the lines of footmen collided Medieval combat was usually what amounted to a barroom brawl with sharp objects. (Surprisingly, this is true of both Eastern and Western combat.) Knights would in essence be the tanks in the scenario (at least until bec-de-corbins, lucern hammers, picks and the like became widespread enough to negate the armor advantage). In a general melee, the footmen would try to pull knights off their horses, overpower them, and then stab at their joints and other chinks in their armor until they stopped moving. Knights' duels, while rare, usually involved just trading blows, beating the crap out each other until one person tired out and dropped their guard-- it was very much a hammer-and-tongs sort of affair.
In fact, swords were commonly used by knights only against foes with inferior armor (like footmen or archers). When facing someone who also sported plate mail or full plate armor, a knight would often prefer hammers, maces, or morning stars, as plate will not keep your arm from getting broken if hit hard enough with a blunt object.
In a pitched battle, eastern style combat wasn't very much different, except that the samurai didn't use blunt weapons. Also, their duels were far more ritualized.
I guess you could argue that the combat is a mix of kendo style with western weapons, but you shouldn't read that far into it, I think: just sit back and enjoy the ride.
EDIT:
Once the lines of footmen collided Medieval combat was usually what amounted to a barroom brawl with sharp objects. (Surprisingly, this is true of both Eastern and Western combat.) Knights would in essence be the tanks in the scenario (at least until bec-de-corbins, lucern hammers, picks and the like became widespread enough to negate the armor advantage). In a general melee, the footmen would try to pull knights off their horses, overpower them, and then stab at their joints and other chinks in their armor until they stopped moving. Knights' duels, while rare, usually involved just trading blows, beating the crap out each other until one person tired out and dropped their guard-- it was very much a hammer-and-tongs sort of affair.
In fact, swords were commonly used by knights only against foes with inferior armor (like footmen or archers). When facing someone who also sported plate mail or full plate armor, a knight would often prefer hammers, maces, or morning stars, as plate will not keep your arm from getting broken if hit hard enough with a blunt object.
In a pitched battle, eastern style combat wasn't very much different, except that the samurai didn't use blunt weapons. Also, their duels were far more ritualized.
I guess you could argue that the combat is a mix of kendo style with western weapons, but you shouldn't read that far into it, I think: just sit back and enjoy the ride.
EDIT:
Okay, I have to ask what is your source for this statement? Nothing I read in my studies, nor anything I have seen on the Internet has suggested that the ore in Japan was either terribly scarce or of lesser quality-- quite the opposite in fact: the Japanese pioneered several forging techniques which are still in use today.EMFCRACKSHOT said:
My big beef with this episode is that I don't really like how Renly is being portrayed. He's supposed to be a young guy who wishes he was Robert.I understand that some liberties need to be taken, but it was rather central to Renly's character that he really wished he could be his big brother, but in the series it's not. Like showing Ned his locket and saying that Margaery Tyrell was his Lyanna Stark, and feeling devastated when Ned didn't immediately think they looked alike.
Tyrion, though, is still making this show worth watching.
But the history channel sometimes plays it fast and loose with truth, so who knows.
Tyrion, though, is still making this show worth watching.
I remember watching something on the history channel about the development of the katana saying that Japanese iron wasn't as high quality as it was in other places in the world, which spurred the pioneering of the more modern techniques. They also had help from Okinawa in crafting and smelting.solidstatemind said:
But the history channel sometimes plays it fast and loose with truth, so who knows.
I absolutely love Petyr Baelish and the actor portraying him. He's already becoming a fast favorite among my circle of friends who watch the show and I can't wait to see their reactions during the later seasons.
Additionally, I really like Jaime. I feel he really grows as a character and this will only become more pronounced as the show goes on.
Additionally, I really like Jaime. I feel he really grows as a character and this will only become more pronounced as the show goes on.