EVE Online Dev Rethinking Virtual Clothing Issue

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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EVE Online Dev Rethinking Virtual Clothing Issue


EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will ever be for sale.

It looks like EVE Online developer CCP might by going back to the drawing board with its virtual clothing store. In a post made on the official EVE blog yesterday [http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=934], senior producer Arnar Hrafn Gylfason said that CCP would meet with the Council of Stellar Management - a group of player-elected representatives - in Iceland in order to hammer out a better strategy for virtual goods and services.

Gylfason's announcement followed a much less conciliatory blog post he made on Friday [http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932 ] where he defended the high price of the clothing, saying that people should expect to play high prices for designer brands, even when they were digital. He also rejected the idea that the "Greed is Good [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111278-EVE-Online-Players-Flip-a-Lid-Over-Virtual-Clothing ]" newsletter, which suggested that CCP would also sell things game-changing items like ships and space stations for actual money, reflected actual CCP policy. The point of the newsletter, he said, was to generate internal debate around the issue of microtransactions. He later apologized for the tone of the post, saying that he had been stressed out by a breach of trust at CCP, presumably referring to the leaked newsletter. He also denied that CCP was planning to ever sell game-changing items for real money.

To many people, Gylfason's posts are going to look a lot like damage control after a badly thought out pricing structure followed by a rather public gaffe. The idea that nobody meant what he or she wrote in the newsletter is not outside the realms of possibility, but it seems a little far-fetched. Making matters worse is a leaked email [http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/], supposedly sent by CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson, which calls the player backlash a "predictable reaction" that will pass if the company just holds its ground. The email is hardly conclusive proof - it's impossible to verify it as genuine - but it will be interesting to see what comes out of the CCP/CSM meeting on June 30th - July 1st.

Source: Rock Paper Shotgun [http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/27/eek-online-ccp-apologises/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RockPaperShotgun+%28Rock%2C+Paper%2C+Shotgun%29]


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ThisIsSnake

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Logan Westbrook said:
EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will not be for sale.
I'm really hoping that this is a typo, he denies that they won't be selling game changing items?
 

The Lost Big Boss

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ThisIsSnake said:
Logan Westbrook said:
EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will not be for sale.
I'm really hoping that this is a typo, he denies that they won't be selling game changing items?
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Them double negatives make me head hurrrrt.
 

Wieke

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Mar 30, 2009
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The Lost Big Boss said:
ThisIsSnake said:
Logan Westbrook said:
EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will not be for sale.
I'm really hoping that this is a typo, he denies that they won't be selling game changing items?
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Them double negatives make me head hurrrrt.
Well in the actual main body of the article this is written:

Logan Westbrook said:
He also denied that CCP was planning to ever sell game-changing items for real money.
So the question is, which statement is the correct one?

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=934

The actual news post on eveonline doesn't make things much clearer for me.
 

Ruairi iliffe

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Sep 13, 2010
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Wieke said:
The Lost Big Boss said:
ThisIsSnake said:
Logan Westbrook said:
EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will not be for sale.
I'm really hoping that this is a typo, he denies that they won't be selling game changing items?
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Them double negatives make me head hurrrrt.
Well in the actual main body of the article this is written:

Logan Westbrook said:
He also denied that CCP was planning to ever sell game-changing items for real money.
So the question is, which statement is the correct one?
I find this Typo brilliant, if only because it sums up most of the EvE fourm questions.
 

DasDestroyer

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Logan Westbrook said:
... senior producer Arnar Hrafn Gylfason said that CCP would meet with the Council of Stellar Management - an group of player-elected representatives - in Iceland n order to hammer out a better strategy for virtual goods and services.
OT: I honestly don't have much on the matter, was just bored and popped in for a read...
Selling game-changing items is evil. There, my work here is done.
 

erbkaiser

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Jun 20, 2009
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From the linked post, 'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'
Not being an Eve player I am not 100% certain but my guess is that this confirms they do not plan to sell premium items after all -- ergo the double negative is incorrect.
 

Caffiene

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erbkaiser said:
From the linked post, 'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'
Not being an Eve player I am not 100% certain but my guess is that this confirms they do not plan to sell premium items after all -- ergo the double negative is incorrect.
Im not a player either, but Ive been reading the unfolding saga... "Gold ammo" is one specific type of item that might potentially have been sold. Given the unusual way CCP have conducted the release (the leaked internal newsletter, etc) many players see the phrasing as a very careful dodge that doesnt actually deny they might be considering selling game-changing items - it only denies selling that specific game-changing item.

So the double negative could be correct :p
 

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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ThisIsSnake said:
Logan Westbrook said:
EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will not be for sale.
I'm really hoping that this is a typo, he denies that they won't be selling game changing items?
Yeah, that's a typo. He said that CCP wouldn't be selling game-changing items.
 

Pariahwulfen

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Mar 23, 2010
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For those of you who want a reaction from some of the members of the CSM a few days ago go here [http://www.eve-radio.com/news-compendium/eve-radio/1074-dissecting-ccp-a-funkybacon-talk-special].
 

Gralian

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Sep 24, 2008
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Interesting. I wonder if the Jita and Amarr station riots had anything to do with this heel-turn by CCP. They really were quite something to behold, even if it was just hundreds of individuals gathering at the trade stations and firing endlessly at them to no real effect. It's not all that unlikely to suppose CCP were aware of this and decided to actually listen to the already small fanbase that they essentially enraged.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Logan Westbrook said:
EVE Online Dev Rethinking Virtual Clothing Issue

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You're right. I certainly smell "damage control." Subscription-based MMOs opened up entire worlds of revenue for gamemakers. The upside? Early MMOs had to work ridiculously hard to show that the game was deep enough to warrant continuous payment. Those early games had some of the most robust skill systems, crafting systems, housing systems, PvP systems... You were paying rent to live in a virtual world, and you felt like that property was yours. You left a footprint in the world even when you were logged out.

Fast forward a few years, and suddenly this changed. No longer was "monthly payment" a swear word or a boogeyman to customers. That's when WoW popped up, right at the crest of that wave. And since then, MMO experiences have gotten much shallower. Strict class systems, barebones crafting, no housing, instanced everything, sameness in armor/weapon progression, and rinse/repeat content.

It's a sad fact, but once people are used to paying for something, you just don't have to work as hard to keep them doing it. Habits are powerful motivators.

Then the free-to-play market started opening, and using micro-transactions to let folks customize the experience and pay what they want. Of course, they promptly made sure "experience bonuses" and such were right at eye-level on the shelves of the virtual store, and other borderline-necessary items... but they still had to work a bit harder to get people to buy things.

And now? We've come to the "hybrid MMO." All of the subscription fees, along with all of the microtransactions... and are we getting more game for our money? No. Instead, you're buying a shirt that, once upon a time, would have been included in some holiday event or update. You're paying for access to a feature that would have been a major (free) patch.

And, at the center of it all, a room full of execs saying, "Any backlash is just a predictable reaction. It'll die down if we just keep it up. They're in the habit of paying, and they'll continue to do so."

People. Stop paying until they start working.
 

9thRequiem

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Sep 21, 2010
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ThisIsSnake said:
Logan Westbrook said:
EVE's senior producer says CCP will consult with players over vanity items, and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will not be for sale.
I'm really hoping that this is a typo, he denies that they won't be selling game changing items?
If I was in his position, I think I'd at least try that.
"I can deny that there is no chance that we will never not sell game changing items ... -trollface-"
 

Fensfield

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Given the amount of rubbish that's been flying around lately - the newsletter may have been real, but the Sony buyout was a total fabrication - I'd not be surprised if the E-mail was just more crap >.>

Also, not a bad post Dastardly. I don't completely agree, but you did hit a lot of my opinions, too..
 

gimmly22

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Jan 3, 2010
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The problem with this "damage control" is that as I play EVE, much of the new content is feeling like it will be a "pay cash for access" on top of the standard subscription. CCP has made major content updates free since I have been playing.

Dastardly is correct in many ways. CCP is trying to go the route of Star Trek Online and other "hybrid" and free-to-play MMOs with pay for additional content. EVE's clothing store does not enhance the player experience, as far as I see.

The worst part of this is the possibility that the new in-game currency, AUR, is supposedly exchangeable for ISK. This would make the cash-for-ISK marketers now legitimate, instead of violators of CCP's policy. Many proposals are being posted regarding the Noble Exchange content and separation from ISK.

It has gotten to the point where at least one petition is calling for the removal of the CEO. [link]http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541028[/link]
 

Ruairi iliffe

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gimmly22 said:
The worst part of this is the possibility that the new in-game currency, AUR, is supposedly exchangeable for ISK. This would make the cash-for-ISK marketers now legitimate, instead of violators of CCP's policy. Many proposals are being posted regarding the Noble Exchange content and separation from ISK.
Cash for ISK has been around for 4+ years, its Called PLEX

Buy Plex on account page, Trade plex on market for ISK.

Aur is just another mark in the process that only leads to Vanity items(hopefully just) Which you can buy with ISK anyway, hell i picked up the new Jacket of NeX as i had some excess left over from a good few weeks.
 

Fursnake

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"...and denies that game-changing goods like ships or stations will ever be for sale."

I don't necessarily believe them when they say that. I feel like the end of that statement should have "...for now" added to it.