Extra Punctuation: Alternative Games
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
As always, very interesting to read your opinion on way-old games that were actually pretty damn good, and how games in the modern world will never measure up to them.
*cough*silenthill2*cough*
*cough*silenthill2*cough*
I liked No More Heroes more than Killer 7. I agree that K7 probably was more original than NMH but NMH was just more fun. But yes, gaming certainly needs more people like Goichi Suda.
And let's not forget the carpark gunfight against a super speedy teenage girl armed with SMGs that drives a bus and kidnaps kids for her pedophile master, who is also an old acquaintance of one of the Smiths.
TAKE THAT, SENSE!
But yeah, one of the very best games ever, for me. Unforgetable.
TAKE THAT, SENSE!
But yeah, one of the very best games ever, for me. Unforgetable.
My favorite non-Zelda video game of all time. That game was truly fucking SOMETHING.
I'm glad Suda's on the rise with his less abstract games of late, but I do hope he gets huge enough - Kojima-huge, ideally, or even Atlus-huge - that he can do something like Killer7 again.
I'd kill for an HD rerelease with "A Suda51 Trip" as the tagline.
I'm glad Suda's on the rise with his less abstract games of late, but I do hope he gets huge enough - Kojima-huge, ideally, or even Atlus-huge - that he can do something like Killer7 again.
I'd kill for an HD rerelease with "A Suda51 Trip" as the tagline.
Johnson didn't explain *everything*. He just provided little snippets of trivia in the world. Heck, even he didn't know everything about the world, if the story books are any indication. He was the Iwazaru of the game (or Iwazaru's established role, not getting too deep in HIS character). Only he spoke in a pleasant British accent instead of distorted Engrish.
Anyway, I may be unpopular for suggesting this, and believe me, I LOVE Killer7, but I honestly don't believe that Suda51 had a grand plotline of interweaving excellence and conspiracy that he's "holding back" while we try to make guesses analyzing and interconnecting all the various minutae. To be frank, I feel that he had a lot of ideas he smashed together and by some miracle, many of them could be successfully strung together given the proper liberties.
In short, I feel it's disjointed and ambiguous by design or due to constraints (time, budget), and any grand scheme we can put together out of the whole mess even on the most minute details was completely coincidental.
That said, it could just be the cynic in me (wow, me being more cynical than Yahtzee).
To that end, I feel that we shouldn't view Suda51 as a visionary mind screwer. I've always felt the best mind screws happen by accident or over-analysis and anyone purposely trying to do so in their writing will fail or show their hand too early.
We should instead see Suda51 for his design style, and what he obviously loves. Lovable characters, breaking gameplay conventions, pop culture, retro gameplay toss-ins, luchador of course, and pushing content limits.
EDIT: God, y'know even as I read over this, I'm reminded of Flower, Sun, and Rain, and the Silver Case, and both of those games were attempts to be mind screws, so maybe Suda really does fancy himself as a mind screwer and has just been reeling it in now that he's actually making money. Ah, who knows.
Anyway, I may be unpopular for suggesting this, and believe me, I LOVE Killer7, but I honestly don't believe that Suda51 had a grand plotline of interweaving excellence and conspiracy that he's "holding back" while we try to make guesses analyzing and interconnecting all the various minutae. To be frank, I feel that he had a lot of ideas he smashed together and by some miracle, many of them could be successfully strung together given the proper liberties.
In short, I feel it's disjointed and ambiguous by design or due to constraints (time, budget), and any grand scheme we can put together out of the whole mess even on the most minute details was completely coincidental.
That said, it could just be the cynic in me (wow, me being more cynical than Yahtzee).
To that end, I feel that we shouldn't view Suda51 as a visionary mind screwer. I've always felt the best mind screws happen by accident or over-analysis and anyone purposely trying to do so in their writing will fail or show their hand too early.
We should instead see Suda51 for his design style, and what he obviously loves. Lovable characters, breaking gameplay conventions, pop culture, retro gameplay toss-ins, luchador of course, and pushing content limits.
EDIT: God, y'know even as I read over this, I'm reminded of Flower, Sun, and Rain, and the Silver Case, and both of those games were attempts to be mind screws, so maybe Suda really does fancy himself as a mind screwer and has just been reeling it in now that he's actually making money. Ah, who knows.
I think my wording got a little away from me. I meant in the context of older, maybe more overlooked games being better than games in the mainstream floodlights of the modern day - Beyond Good & Evil, for example. Or if I'm going to really go 'way old' I'd say Commander Keen (episodes 4 & 6 specifically).Fronzel said:
However, I don't think it applies to games being made right now possibly being seen as a triumph in the far future. *cough*kane&lynch2*cough* I think we've already passed through the Silver Age of gaming and have maybe caught a glimpse of the Golden Age, but we're not quite there yet.
[sub]...just be glad I didn't yell the word 'first' in all caps with nothing else to add. It was tempting, seeing as this is my first ninja-speed-article-reading-post on the Escapist.[/sub]
I really like K7 and I LOVE NMH. I think Suda can give us great experiences through his games!
My only complaint regarding your article is PN 03... How dare you call it a piece of shit?
It was an unappreciated gem that needed a bit more work! It was not perfect but surely had potential.
I hope Suda won't go the mainstream way and continue giving us more weird game experiences!
My only complaint regarding your article is PN 03... How dare you call it a piece of shit?
It was an unappreciated gem that needed a bit more work! It was not perfect but surely had potential.
I hope Suda won't go the mainstream way and continue giving us more weird game experiences!
I love it. It's a trip like no other.
But I disagree that P.N.03 is shit. It's just a trip to the extremely other side. A game so focused in it own eccentric gameplay that not let anything between it and the player. No story, no "graphics", very weird but still cool.
But I disagree that P.N.03 is shit. It's just a trip to the extremely other side. A game so focused in it own eccentric gameplay that not let anything between it and the player. No story, no "graphics", very weird but still cool.
I loved both the story and gameplay of "Killer7". On a technical level its gameplay is quite basic in its nature, but its atmosphere is what really seals the deal (just like SH2, which had weaker gameplay than this one in my opinion). It's a mixture between an on-rail shooter and an adventure game more or less and I cannot fathom why it didn't have lightgun support, it would've made "Killer7" a lot more fun (not that it wasn't fun, but it could be improved on some levels).
The personal story of the game's protagonist is actually quite simple, straightforward and I might even say a bit of a cliche. However the thing with its plot is that it has so many layers of narrative compressed into one complete storyline that the former fact hardly matters. On the other hand that is where most of the obscurentism resides.
A very good plot analysis [http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/killer7_plot.txt] (I shall warn you though: a lot of it is speculative, as such a thing is common with subtle and/or obscure fiction)
The personal story of the game's protagonist is actually quite simple, straightforward and I might even say a bit of a cliche. However the thing with its plot is that it has so many layers of narrative compressed into one complete storyline that the former fact hardly matters. On the other hand that is where most of the obscurentism resides.
A very good plot analysis [http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/killer7_plot.txt] (I shall warn you though: a lot of it is speculative, as such a thing is common with subtle and/or obscure fiction)
So what game best represents the comic genius of Steve Purcell's "Sam & Max"?Yahtzee Croshaw said:
I think I know the plot analysis you're talking about (gamefaq is refusing to allow your link to work) and I think it's a testament to the game itself that it's narrative is so insane, yet so involved, that if you can't entirely dismiss it... you MUST know more.CrawlingPastaHellion said:
Killer7 remains the ONLY game I continued to read about for nearly a month after I finished the game. The irony surrounding so much of the game's ending was so.... hell I can't even describe it.... it's a paradox (in that it's as confusing as you can possibly imagine and yet it somehow makes perfect sense in it's own f**ked up logic). I could barely stand to leave my questions unresolved and even still, I don't know what to make of it. The only thing I didn't quite have the patience for was reading up on all of the very involved political history between the US and Japan but then I suppose if you had bothered to do the research for a fictional version of the future, you'd want to make it as noticeable as possible.
Wow. You explained the game far better than I ever could. I think the main appeal of the game, at least to me, was the fact that it was just so weird and different from everything else out there. In what other game can you see slutty 20-something rape the comatose, wheelchair-bound, old man she is supposed to be taking care of, then see that exact same character dressed up as a maid, turning on a nearby television so you can save the game, hmm?
Damn fine game. Damn fine.
Damn fine game. Damn fine.