Microsoft Sued Over Xbox Live Double-Billing

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Microsoft Sued Over Xbox Live Double-Billing


Microsoft is being sued by a man who says the company's Xbox Live billing policies forced him to pay for a two-year subscription without his consent.

In early January 2010, Ryan Graves purchased a one-year subscription to Xbox Live Gold for $49.99 plus tax, using a debit card which expired in November 2010. He, like just about every other person on the planet, skipped the 18,600-word Terms of Use, which his lawyers claims are "unclear" and "vague" anyway, and went on about his game-playing business. In January 2011, his subscription expired and was terminated.

Shortly after that, Graves took advantage of a Microsoft promotion for one month of free Gold service and after that had ended, on or about March 4, 2011, he purchased a new annual subscription for $64.19, using a new debit card.

But a few days after that, he discovered that Microsoft had actually charged him twice on that day: once for his new subscription and once to renew the January 2010 subscription he had let lapse.

It sounds like a fairly simple mistake to correct but after some horsing around with Microsoft's customer service, the word came down that it was not a mistake at all and that he would not be given a refund for the second charge. The company's position is that Graves agreed to automatic subscription renewals with his January 2010 purchase, which Graves denies and his lawyer says is irrelevant anyway, since Graves only gave Microsoft consent to charge the expired debit card, not the new one.

Now Graves has two years of Xbox Live Gold which he says he doesn't want, claiming that he never would have purchased the new subscription if he'd known Microsoft was going to automatically renew the old one. Since Microsoft considers the matter closed, he's filed a lawsuit which he's seeking to have declared a class action, calling for "an award of appropriate equitable relief," actual, statutory, treble and punitive damages, penalties and interest, legal fees and whatever else the court deems just, plus declarations that Microsoft violated various applicable laws and the rights of the plaintiff.

A full copy of Graves' lawsuit against Microsoft is available in PDF format from helpful note from Major Nelson! [http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/03/Microdouble.pdf]

via: GamesIndustry [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-08-12-microsoft-sued-over-xbox-live-billing]


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Mouse_Crouse

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Apr 28, 2010
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While Microsoft does indeed have an Auto-renew clause. It shouldn't apply to the new debit card. That is very odd. What is odd to me is that Microsoft would rather have this guy sue then just refund the $50. Seems like a manager would have just went "it's not worth it". Have a feeling that's what will happen eventually.
 

Uber Waddles

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May 13, 2010
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I had an issue with this - my credit card had expired, so I was issued a new one. Typically, when this happens, everything but the expiration date is exactly the same, but companies are FORCED to stop using the outdated one till you punch in the new information.

Microsoft hasnt done this, and has charged me for months of service that it legally should not have. Were do I get in on this suing action?
 

Nargleblarg

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Jun 24, 2008
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Mouse_Crouse said:
While Microsoft does indeed have an Auto-renew clause. It shouldn't apply to the new debit card. That is very odd. What is odd to me is that Microsoft would rather have this guy sue then just refund the $50. Seems like a manager would have just went "it's not worth it". Have a feeling that's what will happen eventually.
That would all make logical sense, but we are talking about Microsoft who seem to love losing Bill Gates's money in legal battles they could have easily avoided.
 

KingFall

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Sep 18, 2010
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Freakout456 said:
Mouse_Crouse said:
While Microsoft does indeed have an Auto-renew clause. It shouldn't apply to the new debit card. That is very odd. What is odd to me is that Microsoft would rather have this guy sue then just refund the $50. Seems like a manager would have just went "it's not worth it". Have a feeling that's what will happen eventually.
That would all make logical sense, but we are talking about Microsoft who seem to love losing Bill Gates's money in legal battles they could have easily avoided.
They probably figure he can handle it.
And he can, so.. meh.

Silly move on Microsoft's part, but hey, it's your money. Or gold bars. Probably gold bars.
 

BgRdMchne

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Jun 24, 2011
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Where is all the lawyer hate that I usually see whenever a legal topic comes up here?
Or, do lawyers actually sometimes do good things to help people exercise their rights and make other live up to their obligations?

Edit: Grammar
 

mattttherman3

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Dec 16, 2008
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Suddenly me buying the gold cards instead of using debit or credit cards doesn't seem so dumb now eh?
 

manythings

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Nov 7, 2009
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KingFall said:
Freakout456 said:
Mouse_Crouse said:
While Microsoft does indeed have an Auto-renew clause. It shouldn't apply to the new debit card. That is very odd. What is odd to me is that Microsoft would rather have this guy sue then just refund the $50. Seems like a manager would have just went "it's not worth it". Have a feeling that's what will happen eventually.
That would all make logical sense, but we are talking about Microsoft who seem to love losing Bill Gates's money in legal battles they could have easily avoided.
They probably figure he can handle it.
And he can, so.. meh.

Silly move on Microsoft's part, but hey, it's your money. Or gold bars. Probably gold bars.
Smart money is in conflict diamonds.

OT: They charged him twice, everything else is irrelevant and they are in the wrong for not just noting it and refunding him.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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You know, I bet the employees at Microsoft have turned this into a drinking game.
"Oh, we're getting sued again. Everyone take a shot!"
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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Sep 4, 2009
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Good for him, slimebag billing practices should be brought out into the open.

If it isn't a law it should be, companies that store credit card info shouldn't be allowed to charge anything on the cards without explicit permission for each specific charge. Not whatever they feel like to any card associated with your name.
 

CM156_v1legacy

Revelation 9:6
Mar 23, 2011
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canadamus_prime said:
You know, I bet the employees at Microsoft have turned this into a drinking game.
"Oh, we're getting sued again. Everyone take a shot!"
If so, the level of inebriation they must suffer explains the customer servace there.

I kid, I kid

OT: I really wish they could make ToU and EULAs shorter.
 

chuckey

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Oct 9, 2010
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mattttherman3 said:
Suddenly me buying the gold cards instead of using debit or credit cards doesn't seem so dumb now eh?
i second that statement haha. This could have been avoided if he just used the subscription card but the point of the matter is M$ ripped him of and I hope they lose this battle.
 

Nazrel

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May 16, 2008
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Mouse_Crouse said:
While Microsoft does indeed have an Auto-renew clause. It shouldn't apply to the new debit card. That is very odd. What is odd to me is that Microsoft would rather have this guy sue then just refund the $50. Seems like a manager would have just went "it's not worth it". Have a feeling that's what will happen eventually.
Suing costs money. An hour worth of lawyer time costs more then the subscription. Unless he can get enough of people on board for the class action they have nothing to worry about and he'll lose more money. (Unless it's on a contingency basis.)

and seriously this is small claims court stuff.
 

danirax

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Jan 11, 2011
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he skipped the Terms of Use?! who does that? how can you agree to something if you dont know what are you agreeing to?
south park FTW
I really hope he succeed in it....
 

Tirnor

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Sep 3, 2009
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By the way.. that link from a 2009 post by Major Nelson is no longer applicable.

The updated "My Account" page does indeed list your auto-renewal status rather plainly, but also has the following:

"To cancel your Xbox LIVE membership or to change your auto renewal status, please call Xbox Support."

Personally, I think it's a rather lame attempt to make you jump through another hoop it have to call in to cancel or change an account that you can CREATE and USE without speaking to anyone.

- Tir
 

chuckey

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Oct 9, 2010
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SgtFoley said:
Mouse_Crouse said:
While Microsoft does indeed have an Auto-renew clause. It shouldn't apply to the new debit card. That is very odd. What is odd to me is that Microsoft would rather have this guy sue then just refund the $50. Seems like a manager would have just went "it's not worth it". Have a feeling that's what will happen eventually.
The auto renewal clause it tied to your account and not the origional source of payment. So if you switch credit cards in the middle of the year it will have no effect on the auto renewal as long as you enter your new info onto your live account. So microsoft didnt actually do anything wrong here.

chuckey said:
mattttherman3 said:
Suddenly me buying the gold cards instead of using debit or credit cards doesn't seem so dumb now eh?
i second that statement haha. This could have been avoided if he just used the subscription card but the point of the matter is M$ ripped him of and I hope they lose this battle.
See my above statement on how auto renewals actually work. Microsoft didnt rip the guy off he ripped himself off.
okay i guess i understand,but i still would like to see microsoft lose this case. I mean i know it's tied to his account but he only renewed the service through the free gold event. they charged him for a whole second year. instead of just giving him a refund and saying "sorry for the misunderstanding," M$ would rather take it to court and make a whole big deal out of it.