95% Execution

[Fanta Grape]

Tv Tropes is terrifying.
Not because it's addictive, not because of the vastness, but because it covers everything.

If you've never been to Tv Tropes, it's a site which specifies certain "tropes" used in modern culture media; pointing out clichés in a movie or an archetype in a book. I highly recommend you go there just to understand many mediums better. It's a fascinating deconstruction on entertainment.

That having been said, try writing a novel or screenplay or comic or ANYTHING without subjecting yourself to at least a hundred different tropes. It makes someone like me, who occasionally likes to write, be devastated that I have no original or creative ideas. 95% of it comes from pure execution, not narrative.

Falling to tropes does not inherently make something bad, nor does it decrease any entertainment value one might have, but it is crippling to many forms of artists in ways it really shouldn't be.

So tell me what you think of Tv Tropes, creative ideas, execution, or simply that I'm wrong in every way possible. Because it's the internet.

EDIT: For everyone's convenience...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage

and just in case you missed it the first time

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage

and here's one so you can have multiple pages of it open

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage

 

[TheRealCJ]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools

You're welcome.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

No... Please no... I can't get sucked in again! Thank you for not linking us to it but still...

*twitch*

...

Anyway, I think it is good to see what the stereotypes are and to learn from the mistakes/successes of histories entertainment. But I'd rather not succumb to the line of thinking that nothing can be original anymore.

EDIT: *glares at above user* This thread was link free... dammit.

 

[BonsaiK]

I think the site is horrible and the whole concept of the "trope" is completely 100% needless.

 

[Fanta Grape]

No... Please no... I can't get sucked in again! Thank you for not linking us to it but still...

*twitch*

...

Anyway, I think it is good to see what the stereotypes are and to learn from the mistakes/successes of histories entertainment. But I'd rather not succumb to the line of thinking that nothing can be original anymore.

EDIT: *glares at above user* This thread was link free... dammit.

Ironically enough, I was considering flooding every second word with a link to tv tropes as a joke, but I didn't just because I don't know how to use links on a forum.

 

[BrightBlackDaylight]

I love TV tropes. Well, it's a love/hate thing really, because I enjoy the hell out of browsing through it for hours on end, trying to find tropes that fit my stories/characters or works of fiction that I love, but hate because I should really be spending most of those hours doing maths assignments or something.

As for the original ideas thing, to be honest, there are six billion people on this planet and the human species has been around for half a million years. The number of concepts, ideas and archetypes that resonate with the human consciousness is limited. Even more limited is the range that will apply to a certain culture at one time in history. So, no, you're pretty much never going to have a totally original idea, and you're definitely not going to have a totally original idea that's any good. What you can do is have a relatively original way of putting tropes together to create a relatively unique storyline or character.

Also, tropes are good. Audiences identify with them and enjoy them because they naturally mean something to us, or at least have an accepted meaning in culture. Why would you want to avoid that?

 

[RatRace123]

Noooooooooo, why did you mention it.

I've gone nearly a day without visiting it, but now I'm feeling the urge again.
In all seriousness: I love that site, and it is useful in trying to write or think up ideas.

Remember though, tropes are used a lot because they work, and if implemented correctly they can make a good story even better.

 

[TheRealCJ]

I think the site is horrible and the whole concept of the "trope" is completely 100% needless.

Actually, tropes have been around for a long time, TVtropes is just a Wiki of them.

 

[BonsaiK]

I think the site is horrible and the whole concept of the "trope" is completely 100% needless.

Actually, tropes have been around for a long time, TVtropes is just a Wiki of them.

Undoubtedly true, but this doesn't change the way I feel about the site or the concept it's based on.

 

[TheRealCJ]

No... Please no... I can't get sucked in again! Thank you for not linking us to it but still...

*twitch*

...

Anyway, I think it is good to see what the stereotypes are and to learn from the mistakes/successes of histories entertainment. But I'd rather not succumb to the line of thinking that nothing can be original anymore.

EDIT: *glares at above user* This thread was link free... dammit.

The Time Sink! Appearing like a whisper in the night to post links to TVtropes.

Best. Supervillain. Ever.

 

[TheRealCJ]

I think the site is horrible and the whole concept of the "trope" is completely 100% needless.

Actually, tropes have been around for a long time, TVtropes is just a Wiki of them.

Undoubtedly true, but this doesn't change the way I feel about the site or the concept it's based on.

Well, you can take or leave the site. Fair enough.

But the concept is really just putting a name to a series of recurring literary themes. Without the concept of "tropes", we wouldn't have storytelling as it exists today.

You don't have to like it, but you also can't dismiss it.

 

[TheComedown]

No... Please no... I can't get sucked in again! Thank you for not linking us to it but still...

*twitch*

What is this? I never got the site, I've been there a couple of times and found everything there bores the shit out of me and just seems to be a bunch of useless gibberish about movies and stuff.

 

[drbarno]

well usually when I go through that site, I use it to see the things I like and see how similar other things are in comparsion. there are many a thing I now follow thanks to Tvtropes.

Plus if I'm writing something, I see it as a challenge to see how many tropes I can shove in there somehow.

and the obligatory link
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropeOverdosed

 

[BonsaiK]

I think the site is horrible and the whole concept of the "trope" is completely 100% needless.

Actually, tropes have been around for a long time, TVtropes is just a Wiki of them.

Undoubtedly true, but this doesn't change the way I feel about the site or the concept it's based on.

Well, you can take or leave the site. Fair enough.

But the concept is really just putting a name to a series of recurring literary themes. Without the concept of "tropes", we wouldn't have storytelling as it exists today.

You don't have to like it, but you also can't dismiss it.

Knowledge or awareness of tropes is simply not necessary for creativity, or criticism, or... anything, really. Therefore, I think tropes are redundant. TV Tropes is by extension a collection of redundant information.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I subscribe to the monomyth theory of writing anyway, and did before I ever found tvtropes. I believe there are only really about seven stories anyway, and everything else is in the telling.

A good execution can make up for a lot, and as long as you pull the occasional subversion where it seems like you've set up one trope then you should be fine.

For example:

The hero meets an initially hostile woman who is mean to him, belittles him and yet also seems willing to go through hell and back for him. This seems to be obviously setting up the inevitable romantic conclusion.

Your choices:

Play it straight, with no suprises.

Spoiler

This is more valid than people think because nowadays we're so used to deconstructions that, as Alan Moore put it, maybe it's time for a little reconstruction. There's a reason tropes and cliches exist, because people like what's familiar. You don't settle in to watch Die Hard for the fiftieth time because you're expecting a surprise, you watch it because you know it gives you what you want when you ask for it. Sometimes all people want is a goddamn unambiguous happy ending.

Subvert it.

Spoiler

The hero falls for another girl, one who is a much better fit for him. You can do this by showing that although the tsundere and protagonist may have sexual tension, they aren't right in the long run. When he finds a girl more suited to him, the original two agree to just be friends. Played well this can work nicely, just as long as people understand that the tsundere and protagonist aren't meant for each other. Attempted in Harry Potter but people still insist that Harry and Hermione are right for each other. Also note that mishandling of the girl who is in fact better for the protagonist can ruin this plan.

Lampshade it. Play it straight but point out that everyone knows what's coming. Percy Jackson and the Olympians has a very funny version of this.

Spoiler

Percy and Annabeth are obviously going to get together from the second she's introduced. It still takes five books, but in the third book the Goddess of Love herself Aphrodite shows up to point out exactly what's going to happen, turning it from cliche to hilarious interlude.

Just because you're not writing a comedy doesn't mean you can't have fun.

There are other ways you can play with it but the best use of tropes is to either pull a fast one, set up one trope but finish on another, or pull a Kansas City Shuffle, they think they're being set up to have a fast one pulled on them but really you're going to play the original one straight. This depends on the audience thinking you're clearly setting it up so as to fool them, usually by lampshading and being so honest about it.

Tropes are tools, use them as you would any other trick of writing.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

No... Please no... I can't get sucked in again! Thank you for not linking us to it but still...

*twitch*

What is this? I never got the site, I've been there a couple of times and found everything there bores the shit out of me and just seems to be a bunch of useless gibberish about movies and stuff.

This but to not quite as strong a degree.