Star Wars: The Old Republic Review
BioWare finally delivers an MMORPG that feels like an RPG.
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BioWare finally delivers an MMORPG that feels like an RPG.
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Star Wars: The Old Republic Review
- Thread starter Steve Butts
- Start date
I'm still on the fence. After what Drew Karpyshyn managed to do to Revan, I don't know if I want to mix Bioware with Star Wars anymore.
I was considering getting it, since I've just bought a new gaming pc. You sir, have made me come to a decision.
My next decision is figuring out which class to play, I guess.
My next decision is figuring out which class to play, I guess.
Steve, so you know, your special TOR podcast convinced me that I should really pick this game up and join you guys. However, I'm apartment hunting right now, and know that if I got this game, I would devote every free minute I had to it. My resolution: find an apartment first, buy this game as a reward.
May the Force be with me.
On topic, though, I really enjoyed reading this review. Makes the game out to be very appealing from both a narrative and gameplay perspective while acknowledging its weaker points. Still can't wait to try it out for myself.
May the Force be with me.
On topic, though, I really enjoyed reading this review. Makes the game out to be very appealing from both a narrative and gameplay perspective while acknowledging its weaker points. Still can't wait to try it out for myself.
Escapist members who are thinking of playing should search for ISIS (Republic) or ODIN (Empire) on the Hydian Way server, and join the [a
href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-SW-TOR]user group[/a].
Today I was made a Jedi Master. T'was cool.
href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-SW-TOR]user group[/a].
Chapper said:
Like you two! And in fact, you'll need one of us to invite you, so join the group and then the server, if you're so inclined.Marshall Honorof said:
Today I was made a Jedi Master. T'was cool.
They slipped up (majorly) on Dragon Age 2, people are less forgiving when your previous track-record is so tight. (And to be honest, I'll eat my own face if that Dragon Age team gets its shit together for the 3rd on. "We're looking at Skyrim." Try looking at Dragon Age Origins, idiots.)Oro44 said:
Funny thing. Ask me three years ago, and I would have said I like both Star Wars and Bioware. Nowadays, only Star Wars is on that list. Thanks EA.
The lag on servers is horrible and parts still feel very beta. Once people start reaching end content things will start getting stale.
Does it fix the need to grind and the repeated, fetch quests and kill x number of monkeys for a reward.
SWTOR is probably the most divisive MMO since WoW in terms of how people are reacting to it, for some very good reasons. There's a lot more to the dissenting opinions than just 'haters gonna hate.'
That aside, I'll just pick up on one particular part of the review - the sense of playing a character rather than a collection of stats.
The problem I have with this in TOR is that I don't feel like I'm playing my character. I feel like I'm playing a character that Bioware have defined for me - kind of like Mass Effect. This feeling is massively reinforced when I arrive at a quest hub and see half a dozen other players wandering around with 'my' companion by their side.
SWTOR simply does not feel like an MMO to me. It feels like a single player game with optional multiplayer. Of course the endgame has raids, or whatever TOR calls them, but if they focus on group content and endgame for a while (and based on what we know of the first and second update schedule, they are) then what happens to your character story when all you get at 50 is a couple of dialog cutscenes in a raid every three months? As I've said before, I really can't see the people who come for the story staying for the raiding, and the harsh reality of MMO update schedules - even ones with EA's money behind them - is that you are very unlikely to see regular updates that offer lengthy and involving development of your character's personal story, let alone that of your companions.
That aside, I'll just pick up on one particular part of the review - the sense of playing a character rather than a collection of stats.
The problem I have with this in TOR is that I don't feel like I'm playing my character. I feel like I'm playing a character that Bioware have defined for me - kind of like Mass Effect. This feeling is massively reinforced when I arrive at a quest hub and see half a dozen other players wandering around with 'my' companion by their side.
SWTOR simply does not feel like an MMO to me. It feels like a single player game with optional multiplayer. Of course the endgame has raids, or whatever TOR calls them, but if they focus on group content and endgame for a while (and based on what we know of the first and second update schedule, they are) then what happens to your character story when all you get at 50 is a couple of dialog cutscenes in a raid every three months? As I've said before, I really can't see the people who come for the story staying for the raiding, and the harsh reality of MMO update schedules - even ones with EA's money behind them - is that you are very unlikely to see regular updates that offer lengthy and involving development of your character's personal story, let alone that of your companions.
Hmm, been on the fence for a while about getting it or not, even though I have played maybe 30-60 min as a Jedi Knight (or whatever you call the good guys). Now, this might just tip me over to getting it (once i get a new gaming pc and a job Q.Q)
But overall, good review, but as SteelStallion mentioned:
But overall, good review, but as SteelStallion mentioned:
^ might have to go with him on that.SteelStallion said:
Even though the argument of what is and isn't roleplaying is virtually impossible to be right or wrong on.I do contest that: "Suddenly, I'm not making choices based on the purely mechanical benefit to my character. Now I'm actually investing myself in the situations and making decisions based on my character's outlook. The sum total of those decisions creates a character biography that transcends the skills and equipment I've gained along the way. I mean, what's more meaningful: that my character has a lightsaber that boosts his strength or that he seduces (and allows himself to be seduced by) women in power? To me, that's real roleplaying and it's something that The Old Republic does better than any other MMO I've ever played."
isn't properly put into context. Sure, you have the ability to choose dialogue options, but in reality, the game is extremely linear. Zones are fairly small and aren't at all that open. Exception to maybe a few zones like Tattooine, most are just corridors with little valleys in them. Quests are motonous and similar to that of any other mmorpg on the market.
What SWTOR does best is also something that I find destroys the truly MMO feel of it. I give the writing and quest dialogue stellar points. If I wanted to play a single player, bioware rpg, this would be amazing. HOWEVER, it does destroy some aspects of the mutliplayer experience.
I know there is a major tenet of mmorpgs to make each and every player a heroic character in their world, however, more and more is that heroism granted than earned. Take the Agent class for example. After you do your Prologue quest you and you alone are given the sole task of infiltrating a terrorist network, responsible for violence to the Empire. Except...that it is you and about 5000 more Agents on the same exact quest line. I guess the Empire kind of had in mind a larger task force of Agents, in case you eventually fail and give up your subscription.
Not to mention a good 80%+ of the quests are solo-able. So in reality, the game doesn't require you, nor does it really foster you, to group up and form a community.
So there isn't much character development, as you are a living clone of the quest lines given to every other person in your class. What's worse, is that the quests make you feel like you are the powerful messiah like character, yet kind of takes it away with the linearity of the over-all game.
Take also for example the planets. Planets are so specialized to serving a particular range of levels, that virtually every player is going to follow the same exact path. Go from your newbie location, to the next tier area, which there is only one, then go to the next tier, which is only one, then the next, etc etc. The "choice" in where to go is limited.
Fundamentally we come to an age old question that comes even from D&D days:
How much of the story should players create themselves, and how much of the story should be given? It seems that with this MMO, the player's ability to make their own story, their own adventures, their own pursuits, is extremely limiting. The game holds your hand through each and every aspect.
I come back to my earlier point that it's greatest asset is also it's weakness. The extremely great but extremely limiting and narrow story line. Bioware does a great job at making a single player RPG, because it has a lot of experience with great storylines, but it's multiplayer it's lack luster. My character didn't have options. Outside aesthetic options that are ultimately mechanical (such as light/dark side) I still had to follow lock step with the rest of the player base throught the same exact corridors, same exact missions and quests, and the same exact planets. Like a massive narrow corridor with small rooms here and there, that is what SWTOR is.
For those of you that love Star Wars and want to experience a great RPG that you can, if you wish, sometimes, share with your friends or other people, SWTOR is great. However if you want a world you can live in, a world that you know is affected by you, a world where you can really explore, SWTOR is lack luster in that regard.
If one was to put this on a scale of Theme Park MMORPGs (-10 to 0) and Full Sandbox MMORPG (0-10) this would be a solid -7 on that scale.
Great SOLO Friendly MMO. Doubt many will stick around after they max out a few toons.
isn't properly put into context. Sure, you have the ability to choose dialogue options, but in reality, the game is extremely linear. Zones are fairly small and aren't at all that open. Exception to maybe a few zones like Tattooine, most are just corridors with little valleys in them. Quests are motonous and similar to that of any other mmorpg on the market.
What SWTOR does best is also something that I find destroys the truly MMO feel of it. I give the writing and quest dialogue stellar points. If I wanted to play a single player, bioware rpg, this would be amazing. HOWEVER, it does destroy some aspects of the mutliplayer experience.
I know there is a major tenet of mmorpgs to make each and every player a heroic character in their world, however, more and more is that heroism granted than earned. Take the Agent class for example. After you do your Prologue quest you and you alone are given the sole task of infiltrating a terrorist network, responsible for violence to the Empire. Except...that it is you and about 5000 more Agents on the same exact quest line. I guess the Empire kind of had in mind a larger task force of Agents, in case you eventually fail and give up your subscription.
Not to mention a good 80%+ of the quests are solo-able. So in reality, the game doesn't require you, nor does it really foster you, to group up and form a community.
So there isn't much character development, as you are a living clone of the quest lines given to every other person in your class. What's worse, is that the quests make you feel like you are the powerful messiah like character, yet kind of takes it away with the linearity of the over-all game.
Take also for example the planets. Planets are so specialized to serving a particular range of levels, that virtually every player is going to follow the same exact path. Go from your newbie location, to the next tier area, which there is only one, then go to the next tier, which is only one, then the next, etc etc. The "choice" in where to go is limited.
Fundamentally we come to an age old question that comes even from D&D days:
How much of the story should players create themselves, and how much of the story should be given? It seems that with this MMO, the player's ability to make their own story, their own adventures, their own pursuits, is extremely limiting. The game holds your hand through each and every aspect.
I come back to my earlier point that it's greatest asset is also it's weakness. The extremely great but extremely limiting and narrow story line. Bioware does a great job at making a single player RPG, because it has a lot of experience with great storylines, but it's multiplayer it's lack luster. My character didn't have options. Outside aesthetic options that are ultimately mechanical (such as light/dark side) I still had to follow lock step with the rest of the player base throught the same exact corridors, same exact missions and quests, and the same exact planets. Like a massive narrow corridor with small rooms here and there, that is what SWTOR is.
For those of you that love Star Wars and want to experience a great RPG that you can, if you wish, sometimes, share with your friends or other people, SWTOR is great. However if you want a world you can live in, a world that you know is affected by you, a world where you can really explore, SWTOR is lack luster in that regard.
If one was to put this on a scale of Theme Park MMORPGs (-10 to 0) and Full Sandbox MMORPG (0-10) this would be a solid -7 on that scale.
Great SOLO Friendly MMO. Doubt many will stick around after they max out a few toons.
"The Old Republic is the first MMO where that attitude actually seems to matter within the context of the game."
Ehh.. I think this is only true in the sense that TOR forces it on the player. Not that that's a bad thing, but pretty much every MMO out there allows for just as much RP as TOR does. In fact, I would say older MMOs pretty much stomp TOR in how much free form RP is actually allowed.
Oh, and yes I have to bring it up, but The Matrix Online still easily best defines an MMO that actually encouraged RP as more than just something to do on the side. In that game, the storyline wasn't necessarily fully formed ahead of time and did actually change based on it's RP community. Sorry, Mr. Butts but you're not only wrong about TOR being the first MMO to really support RP. It's definitely not the first, and it's also definitely not the best.
Ehh.. I think this is only true in the sense that TOR forces it on the player. Not that that's a bad thing, but pretty much every MMO out there allows for just as much RP as TOR does. In fact, I would say older MMOs pretty much stomp TOR in how much free form RP is actually allowed.
Oh, and yes I have to bring it up, but The Matrix Online still easily best defines an MMO that actually encouraged RP as more than just something to do on the side. In that game, the storyline wasn't necessarily fully formed ahead of time and did actually change based on it's RP community. Sorry, Mr. Butts but you're not only wrong about TOR being the first MMO to really support RP. It's definitely not the first, and it's also definitely not the best.
"While the space battles are the only serious shortcoming for The Old Republic"
What? Seems like you missed the 500ms delay, 1 raid end-game, complete focus in Republic story with complete disregard for empire story (all main characters in Empire dies, no main characters in republic dies), no AA, lack of high definition texture, overheat problems, constant FPS spikes, all races being same model with different colors (except twilek), only can pick "Anorexic, skinny, bodybuilder and obese" as models for male, and "small boobs, big boobs, tall with huge boobs and short with huge boobs" in female, broken PvP, exact copy of many WoW skills, lack of neutral rewards (yeah, only extreme light and extreme dark get item rewards), lack of addons, lack of customizable UI.
I'm not gonna put horrible support and terrible community as complaints, because they aren't really part of the game bioware made, and it's the game that's on review.
Serious, I played beta, and It felt great. But it deserves a 7.5/3.5 at most. The flaws are too big to ignore.
What? Seems like you missed the 500ms delay, 1 raid end-game, complete focus in Republic story with complete disregard for empire story (all main characters in Empire dies, no main characters in republic dies), no AA, lack of high definition texture, overheat problems, constant FPS spikes, all races being same model with different colors (except twilek), only can pick "Anorexic, skinny, bodybuilder and obese" as models for male, and "small boobs, big boobs, tall with huge boobs and short with huge boobs" in female, broken PvP, exact copy of many WoW skills, lack of neutral rewards (yeah, only extreme light and extreme dark get item rewards), lack of addons, lack of customizable UI.
I'm not gonna put horrible support and terrible community as complaints, because they aren't really part of the game bioware made, and it's the game that's on review.
Serious, I played beta, and It felt great. But it deserves a 7.5/3.5 at most. The flaws are too big to ignore.
First two worlds, and before anyone calls me out on jumping to premature conclusions, in every MMO I've ever played and loved the first 20 levels were where I started to love the game. If TOR gets better later on it takes an awfully long time to do so.Woodsey said:
I can see how the companion thing would become somewhat less jarring once you have more to choose from, but that's only one reason I know The Old Republic is not for me. It's not a bad game, but it's very flawed as an MMO, with a horrible design philosophy behind it, and it pains me when people repeat Bioware's unjustified claim that it's the first MMO with a story that matters.
This.StriderShinryu said: