999 & Virtues Last Reward: Which was better? (More than Possible Spoilers)

[krebons12]

For those invested in the Zero Escape saga, and looking forward to the third installment (I know I pray at my bedside for it) which do you think was ultimately better?

To start things of, I'll say that I believed that 999 was the better of the two, because while you had to play through the whole game beginning to end multiple times in order to achieve all the endings, It's characters felt more human and worried about the situation, were more surprising yet understandable when they have depth added to them in later parts of the game, and it was perfect in its execution of showing that Zero wasn't screwing around with his punishment for disobeying the rules, even if the punishment wouldn't have happened to anyone else.

But that's just me. What do you guys think?

 

[sextus the crazy]

Big fan of Zero Escape, but 999 was better on the story front. The twist at the end about the location was really kinda contrived and felt like it was trying to "one-up" 999. VLR's gameplay was better though, as replaying the sections was kind of a drag in 999.

 

[krebons12]

Yeah. The twist about the real location at the end of 999 had at least been alluded to, so it made sense. When I had seen the wasteland the first time, I just sorta went... "uhhhh ok, then" Not to mention Dio's "surprise I'm a baddy" moment wasn't nearly as jaw dropping as Ace's.

But definitely gameplay was better with Virtue's. Especially since you got an easy hard option whos only hindarence to you is not completing your archives 100% . That was a really good move on their part. Plus being able to autoplay and listen to the novel sections comes really in handy when you have work you need to do :3

 

[sextus the crazy]

Yeah. The twist about the real location at the end of 999 had at least been alluded to, so it made sense. When I had seen the wasteland the first time, I just sorta went... "uhhhh ok, then" Not to mention Dio's "surprise I'm a baddy" moment wasn't nearly as jaw dropping as Ace's.

But definitely gameplay was better with Virtue's. Especially since you got an easy hard option whos only hindarence to you is not completing your archives 100% . That was a really good move on their part. Plus being able to autoplay and listen to the novel sections comes really in handy when you have work you need to do :3

Did you know there's a Quote button for when you want to converse with someone in a thread?

OT: I was pretty happy with how the English voice acting turned out in VLR. Also, the 3D didn't look bad, considering how meh it looked in the trailer. Also, just to gush on 999/VLR some more, how awesome is that soundtrack? Shinji Hosoe sure knows how to make some creepy ass music. I even bothered to import a copy of the VLR soundtrack. From VLR, "Cabin", "Biology", and "Pantry" are my favorites. For 999, it's "Trepidation" and "Chill and Rigor".

 

[Delock]

VLR felt like a better game with a bit better use of the mechanic that 999 couldn't use without spoiling its plot
However, 999 has a tighter narrative (in some areas... when it wastes time it eats up chunks of it with no real relevance to the plot) but it also was very frustrating to figure out how to unlock your endings, and the fact that the 2 bad endings basically got used again and again, and the fact that some of the character don't get explored unless you REALLY look for them, I'm gonna have to give this one to VLR.

It's really hard to give it that though because I really don't like encouraging anyone to check it out over 999 because it really works best as a sequel and it positively ruins 999 if played first.

 

[krebons12]

Yeah. The twist about the real location at the end of 999 had at least been alluded to, so it made sense. When I had seen the wasteland the first time, I just sorta went... "uhhhh ok, then" Not to mention Dio's "surprise I'm a baddy" moment wasn't nearly as jaw dropping as Ace's.

But definitely gameplay was better with Virtue's. Especially since you got an easy hard option whos only hindarence to you is not completing your archives 100% . That was a really good move on their part. Plus being able to autoplay and listen to the novel sections comes really in handy when you have work you need to do :3

Did you know there's a Quote button for when you want to converse with someone in a thread?

OT: I was pretty happy with how the English voice acting turned out in VLR. Also, the 3D didn't look bad, considering how meh it looked in the trailer. Also, just to gush on 999/VLR some more, how awesome is that soundtrack? Shinji Hosoe sure knows how to make some creepy ass music. I even bothered to import a copy of the VLR soundtrack. From VLR, "Cabin", "Biology", and "Pantry" are my favorites. For 999, it's "Trepidation" and "Chill and Rigor".

No I did not :3
But yeah, the soundtrack and VA's are surprisingly good in the games. I felt that Chill and Rigor was definitely beautiful. It fits so well with all the thoughts going through your head. It just makes you feel... suspicious, you know?

 

[Schadrach]

Yeah. The twist about the real location at the end of 999 had at least been alluded to, so it made sense. When I had seen the wasteland the first time, I just sorta went... "uhhhh ok, then" Not to mention Dio's "surprise I'm a baddy" moment wasn't nearly as jaw dropping as Ace's.

But definitely gameplay was better with Virtue's. Especially since you got an easy hard option whos only hindarence to you is not completing your archives 100% . That was a really good move on their part. Plus being able to autoplay and listen to the novel sections comes really in handy when you have work you need to do :3

Yeah, Dio wasn't a huge shock.

I did love how they used "Schordinger's Cat" in terms of how the timeline plays out though.

 

[COMaestro]

I really enjoyed both games, but I think I liked VLR better. It had a better selection of puzzles and felt more replayable than 999 did to me. Trying to get all the endings in 999 was a slog, whereas I could just jump to sections of VLR as they unlocked.

 

[JasonKaotic]

Oooo ooo ooo, a Zero Escape thread? Today is a good day.

The true ending of 999 is one of my favourite endings from any game, but despite that I have to say I prefer Virtue's Last Reward. The whole thing was a lot more satisfying, aside from the sort-of-cliffhanger ending.
VLR had voice acting, a more interesting story, a much more complex and interesting Nonary Game, even better music, and just generally that game is just <3.
Seriously, I love that game way too much. Like, wow. I could go on for paragraphs and paragraphs about how amazing that game is. Played VLR before 999 though which probably has some effect on my opinion of the two games. Especially since VLR spoiled a lot of 999. Bleugh.

Even though most of the game was horrendously unsubtly stolen from Danganronpa, it did what it did way too well for that to affect my opinion of it.

 

[Harpalyce]

I haven't actually played VLR myself yet - just read readthroughs and the like - but to be honest, I don't see myself actually buying any of it.

When you have time shenaniganery going on, as well as multiple endings, of course things are going to get complex. But I feel like 999 managed to have a tighter story because it wasn't focusing on being a sequel. VLR's story seems to do some meandering, a la Dragon Age 2, and that's not entirely its fault - after all, it has to pick up the story from the first game. That's a tricky make-or-break moment in any trilogy. Either you get something brilliant, or you get something that just seems to tread water while waiting for the third installment to show up and be interesting.

Honestly though, I felt like the setting of what happened in-between made it lose a lot of heft as a scary title. 999 struck a chord because the characters all felt like relatively normal, everyday people. That's why Ace's betrayal was such a punch to the gut. That's why Clover and Snake's relationship felt so true. These are people where you feel like you could walk down a street and pick out their counterparts - well, okay, maybe less with the wacky costumes, but you could certainly tell the same stories. An older brother who is out to look after his sister come hell or high water because they only have each other. A man who seems like a friendly patriarch until he is pushed into revealing his true intentions and motivations. A mother who dresses how she pleases and knows that people are surprised by her talent because she doesn't fit the stereotype. Et cetera, et cetera.

Most importantly, though, was Junpei. A pretty normal dude who gets kidnapped from College. That gets scary because HOLY SHIT I GO TO COLLEGE, I COULD SUFFER THE SAME FATE!

...but in VLR suddenly it's revealed that it's half past the seppuku apocalypse and also you're on the moon. Okay, we're in the future, but that takes away a lot of the sting. Nobody who plays VLR is going to go "HOLY SHIT THEY'RE ON THE MOON JUST LIKE ME!" - they've intentionally put in that distance. That for me is why 999 is scarier than VLR in a nutshell. I think Yahtzee touches on the same in a review for I believe Condemned 2. The first one was scary to him because the final boss was dodging an axe murderer while running through a normal everyday house. The second one ends up with a magic-enhanced fight on the top of a sci-fi tower. One of these things is more immediately relatable as a setting, and one... well, ISN'T.

Right now I've kinda fallen out of love with Zero Escape. I'm hoping that maybe the third game, if it ever happens, will woo me back with chocolates and roses and an understanding that connecting with the player is a good way to make things more immediately emotionally effective. I can hope, I guess.

(And doesn't Danganronpa actually come after 999? I seem to remember at least one 999 shout-out in the Diggitydang Rompus that my friends shrieked about.) (Edit: Yeah, 999 came out in Japan in December 2009, whilst DR came out in November 2010. So I'm guessing 999 didn't rip off DR or if they did morphogenic fields were involved so they deserved it )

 

[And Man]

I really enjoyed both games, but I think I liked 999 better. I thought it had a better twist (the cross-time stuff with Akane and Junpei was pretty great IMO), and overall I guess I just felt the story was more cohesive. After a while, towards the end of the mid-game before it started getting into the climax, it really started to drag for me, which I think is mainly due to not being able to skip text in different branches that was the exact same save for two characters having their point values swapped, etc. That being said, there were some really good changes made to VLR. Having voice acting was awesome, not having to restart from the very beginning to get different endings (and thus having to redo multiple puzzles numerous times) was great, and having a tree so that you could see the different paths you could take was a huge improvement, because lol at trying to get the True ending in 999 without using a guide to figure out which specific path(s) you need to take. Really looking forward to a third installment.

 

[Sack of Cheese]

999 was so much better! I loved the characters and how the plot evolved. 999 started at a mystery, very grounded (sort of) and gradually added supernatural elements and it was such a good twist! The characters were also so much more likable and has a lot of hidden depths, like Seven.

In VLR, everyone tries to betray you and it's just so off-putting, plus the 3D models decreased the moody/risky/oppressive feelings the original has. Fi was great, but that's the only character I liked. I played VLR on the Vita, and the control was not as good as 999 on DS, so that's also one of my dislikes.

 

[GabeZhul]

Ever 17, aka the original visual novel Kotaro Uchikoshi recycled all his ideas and plot-twists from.
Look into it. The entire "Zero Escape Saga" is pretty much just a watered down rehash of the Infinity Series of visual novels where he was the lead writer under the pen-name Hagane Tsukishio. While I wouldn't call them bad games by themselves, their narrative doesn't even hold a candle to the "originals".

 

[krebons12]

999 was so much better! I loved the characters and how the plot evolved. 999 started at a mystery, very grounded (sort of) and gradually added supernatural elements and it was such a good twist! The characters were also so much more likable and has a lot of hidden depths, like Seven.

In VLR, everyone tries to betray you and it's just so off-putting, plus the 3D models decreased the moody/risky/oppressive feelings the original has. Fi was great, but that's the only character I liked. I played VLR on the Vita, and the control was not as good as 999 on DS, so that's also one of my dislikes.

Yeah, it was definitely good that they started it as "these are fancy little theories that we find to be interesting" and went to "there was a rich nutcase who kidnapped a bunch of children to see if these theories are real by trying to kill them" to "the theory is true, but not only is it possible for this ability to be experienced across space, but time as well". It was definitely amazing since they had given those subtle hints with the painting of the dog as well as fusing with other fancy little tidbits like the Ice-96. It was the perfect way to give the clues for a puzzle :3

 

[JonnyHG]

999 was much better in my opinion. It's probably the only time I'll cry while playing Sudoku.

 

[StormwaveUK]

I preferred 999 personally. Amazing game.

 

[GabeZhul]

Ever 17, aka the original visual novel Kotaro Uchikoshi recycled all his ideas and plot-twists from.
Look into it. The entire "Zero Escape Saga" is pretty much just a watered down rehash of the Infinity Series of visual novels where he was the lead writer under the pen-name Hagane Tsukishio. While I wouldn't call them bad games by themselves, their narrative doesn't even hold a candle to the "originals".

I'm not sure about this, Ever17 had too much meta in the resolution, making it actually more confusing game near the end.
Also I found it a bit less exciting, with lower stakes than 999, which had me glued to the sit until the end

While there is no question about that E17s pacing is a mess, I would ultimately still prefer it a million times over 999. Though I admit I might be biased since I have read the infinity series first. If you play 999 first and experience the plot-twists there for the first time, I suppose it would drastically change your enjoyment value of the title.
As for VLR, I have only been hearing bad things about it (once again mostly regarding how blatantly Uchikoshi had lifted elements from his previous stories), so I never tried it (not to mention I don't have a 3DS to begin with, so I could only play it at a friend's place at best...)

 

[Mister K]

Hmm... I'd say that I liked VLR more. It had great mechanic whenre you could start playing from any moment you previously played, thus elliminating a need to constantly start a new game+, in-build notepad and it hadn't had Sudoku puzzles, which I dislike. Plus, I won't tell you the reason becuse I don't know myself, but I simply liked VLR's story better.

Although I have to admit, that Ace was a better villain than Dio. At least Ace's reveal was a surprise. Dio, however, seemed like a villain from the very first moment.

Also, Clover in VLR is.. Just screw her.