A challenge to the PC master race

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Gethsemani_v1legacy

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gmaverick019 said:
where do you live, a center for ants?!?!
A fairly large apartment actually, the problem being that our last apartment was a one bedroom apartment with no room for two desks (my wife got her desk since she was studying at the time) which left me with the dining table for area to place a computer. In our current two bedroom apartment, with one being the bedroom for our son, the only desk is occupied by various hobby articles (Flames of War, knitting etc.) and when we get our second desk it will be used to accommodate my wife's sewing machine.

It is not a problem of living small. It is a problem of having multiple interests that all demand work space. While my PS4 can fit neatly on the TV bench right next to the TV, a stationary PC, even an ITX, requires more space due to the added demand of screen, keyboard and mouse. Hence why I use laptops. I can set it up on the dining table for daily use but easily move it when we have guests.
 

Joccaren

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Gethsemani said:
Easy:
1. The extreme hardware and software diversity and the hellish problems of compatibility and stability that leads to, especially in regards to games.
2. The constant need to stay up to date on new drivers, keep up with software patches and how they might interact with your set up and what problems that might cause relating to point 1.
To be honest I don't find these problems unless you're using fairly ancient hardware, or ancient games. Haven't updated my drivers in at least 3 years and things run fine. Over 6 computer builds, I've never had a compatibility or stability issue because of the hardware. These are mostly older problems, though I'll give they occasionally pop up these days due to issue #3 you mentioned: Shit ports -.-

3. The awkward control schemes that result from multi-platform releases and the frequent inability to customize it fully (I swear, the number of games that won't let me map to Mouse 4 and 5 are getting more and more common with every year).
4. The space the computer itself occupies, it was what drove me from towers as a student to laptops.
But mostly:
Yeah, these are true. Especially 3.
4 I personally find a TV bigger, but it depends on the person. Most people probably have both a PC, and a TV, so space probably isn't too much of an issue. There have been times I wished my full tower were only a half so I could shove a fridge next to it though...

5. The expense of keeping hardware up to date to get both good graphical and aural fidelity with smooth gameplay, especially if you, like me, are gaming on laptops due to room constraints.
TBH this is only for OCD people that want max graphics, or to deal with #3. I upgrade my computer once every 3-8 years. And that's to max out graphics, not just keep them 'good'. If you only update when consoles do, you keep the costs way down.


OT: MOSTLY the issues with the PC come from negligence of the platform by developers - both for the PC [I.E: Microsoft with Windows] and for multiplatform [I.E: Many games devs].
Crappy ports are the majority of the issue. Poor control schemes. Poor graphics. Locked FPS and resolution to make it on par with the consoles. Poor FoV also is a huge issue, and motion blur annoys a lot of people and is locked on to help console performance.
Windows itself, and the fact its the only PC platform developed for most of the time [Mac and Linux exist too guys], also has issues. Windows makes you at the mercy of Microsoft, and often that's not a good thing with the direction they've been trying to take things recently. It also limits which OS you're able to use if you want to play games at all, rather than consoles where its more which games you want to play.

Size and cost are minor issues. A full tower is a fair bit bigger than a console, and whilst most people probably have room for it, it does take some out of the picture when they have other priorities [I.E: A TV]. PCs also have a higher upfront cost, though a lower ongoing cost. Makes it harder to purchase, and can delay you being able to play games. Once you have it the games are cheaper by around $10 most of the time, and with things like Steam sales and Humble Bundles... You can save a fortune. It does depend on the sort of gamer you are though.

One extra downside is the confusion that backwards compatibility brings. With Consoles, if you have an Xbox 360 game, it won't run on the Xbox 1. With PC, if you have a Windows XP game, it WILL run on Windows 7. It might need a couple of fixes - I.E: Run it in compatibility mode, with administrator privileges, with forced hardware Anti-Aliasing off - but it can run, and it introduces many of the compatibility problems that are smaller and that people run into. You can run games back to the DOS days on a PC, but older games have different methods to run it. All are simply counted as PC games though that you can run on a PC. This causes confusion for many, as games aren't clearly labelled as to which version they're meant for - its just small fine print on the back.

The final downside I can really think of is in the community and social aspect. If you game on the PC, it is still seen as somewhat niche, more for doing your thing, whereas consoles are seen as more of a communal thing, where you're focused more on playing with friends. This means that, for playing with friends, there's more pressure to get a console, and generally when playing on a PC you'll not have the same options available for people to play with, as they'll have gone console for its 'communal' reputation.
This is changing, however. Most of my friends are all PC exclusive gamers. We have to play a console at some point and we're all "WTF is this shit", and we play online together fairly often. Even my more 'dudebro' friends are split 50/50 between PC and console - and this is from all of us coming from a near exclusively console background. However, it is still the sort of thing where to play with friends many have to buy a console, and find it harder to do so with a PC.

Overall though, most of the downsides of any platform are subjective. PCs and consoles are aimed at separate audiences, and thus when someone calls out a downside [I.E: No Physical disks], its not a downside for others [My room is filled with disks. ~300 PC games, ~400 console spreading from N64 up to PS2 era. Buying physical copies also exposes me to my home town's ridiculous weather {Literal 4 seasons in one day. We don't have normal days here}, and requires me to spend money on public transport and travel for ~2 hours in total to buy the game, when I could buy it in 1 minute and just do other things important to me whilst it downloads].
So, there are a number of 'situational' downsides as well, where context is very important. Hell, really, context is important for all of the downsides, but some are more simply compensated for, rather than being an advantage to other people.
 

RedRockRun

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It takes a lot of time to understand the ins and outs of PC's. I'm not great at research and prefer just talking to people and asking specific questions, so it can be daunting wanting to know so much but only being able to take in limited amounts at a time.

Also there's the fact that someone will always have a better rig than me.

And the looming worry of when my hardware will need to be replaced in order to play newer games. I'd really like to get more RAM and a larger HDD along with a SSD to load my OS on.

Then there's the fact that so much can go wrong. The more complex computers get the easier it will be for errors to occur. This is true with any machine. Whenever something on my PC messes up I feel so powerless.

There is just such a galaxy of information and content. It's quite daunting.
 

Dalisclock

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FalloutJack said:
WouldYouKindly said:
Shitty ports.
kasperbbs said:
Shitty ports
Dalisclock said:
Mostly Shitty Ports.
*Blows whistle*

Foul! 'Shitty ports' is a complaint PC users have against consoles because they feel neglected in the gaming community. Since it's a jab at the console that got the better port, it's not a valid depreciation of the PC.

OT: I would like to lodge a complaint about the expense of getting a decent PC for gaming, and then finding out later on that the parts I need to replace hardware may not be available later down the line.
I beg to differ. If you're gonna port, is it such a terrible thing to ask that you maintain decent quality standards when you do it? Plenty of ports(or at least,console and PC releases) are capable of holding the same level of quality across platforms.
 

FalloutJack

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Dalisclock said:
I beg to differ. If you're gonna port, is it such a terrible thing to ask that you maintain decent quality standards when you do it?
Oh, sure, but it's not a self-depreciation of the PC. It's a complaint of the developer with the wish that the console wasn't there to split the attention. That is, at least, how I see it.
 

Tsun Tzu

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I enjoy my PC for the most part...except for the constant crippling knowledge that, at any time, a part could fail and it'll bring the bulk of your experience with media to a grinding halt.



Like, say, a power supply (ignore the mess) suddenly dying out of the blue and the spare you thought you had available was, in fact, missing some necessary cables, so you wind up having to buy a new, expensive part. :D

Frankly, I'm just glad the thing didn't take any other components with it.

Ahem.

I like muh PC, but it can be a pain. It's the same for consoles, of all stripes, since there's no 'perfect' medium for experiencing content just yet.

My Vita, for example, seems to have a problem playing downloadable titles. I keep having to redownload them due to fuck-ups and, actually, I can't even play my FFX-2 copy because it just crashes after the opening movie, no matter what I do! The same goes for some mobile Android games.
 

Keoul

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More troubleshooting (gotta get them drivers update, check I got the right specs, google up problems like corruption, freezes)
Constantly gotta upgrade (A little exaggerated, you could probably get away with 5 years)
Homework for builds (Gotta check so much, ram, GPU size, voltage, price, etc)
Random errors, crashes, etc. (AMD plz)
 

TwistednMean

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1) Extremely bad ports (yeah,I blame you, console gamers, for their existence).

2) Tendency to release stuff first and patch it later even though the game is riddled with bugs.

3) Loads of tiny content packages which add up to a substantial amount of money spent.

4) Lack of story-driven co-op. I can literally think of only a single title, which is Hunted.
 
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Gethsemani said:
gmaverick019 said:
where do you live, a center for ants?!?!

It is not a problem of living small. It is a problem of having multiple interests that all demand work space. While my PS4 can fit neatly on the TV bench right next to the TV, a stationary PC, even an ITX, requires more space due to the added demand of screen, keyboard and mouse. Hence why I use laptops. I can set it up on the dining table for daily use but easily move it when we have guests.
I would say you could use the tv and simply have a rollout/pullout shelf for your mouse/keyboard, but I see your point here for ease of use with what you have currently. (also plenty of games work well with a controller, since you don't mind playing a console I don't figure that would be a big deal for you).

the itx case would essentially be a homemade steam machine in your case, but that would be up to you entirely on your setup for making it run to the tv and all that.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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FalloutJack said:
I still see it as blaming consoles. It feels like a complaint that the parents are paying too much attention to the other child. The parents might be part of the problem, but you know the PC enthusiast is wishing he was the only child.
Well yes, because the problem is that the developers ARE paying too much attention to the "other child"; which IS a downside to being a PC gamer. It isn't that I feel that the console versions should be worse, or that I feel that consoles are to blame for us getting shoddy ports, or even that I'm necessarily jealous of consoles. I place 100% of the blame and annoyance on the developers who treat PC gamers like second class citizens.
 

BrokenTinker

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Lack of standardization -

Codecs all over the place for audio/video.

Inconsistent ports

Controller options - gamepad used to be THE controller scheme for PCs (directinput), now we have shit like that uses the xbone driver. On the other hand, you can be like the poster above, use a gun that shoots car WHILE using a PS4 controller. Still, it is inconsistent.

Generational Gaps for upgrades - futureproofing is required to maintain the advantage of PC over the consoles. If your mofo happens to become obsolete for being able to handle the newer hardware required, then you are shit out of luck. On the flip side, my PC survived longer than any consoles or handheld I owned due to just need to fix the specific parts.

Terror of (and for) the uninitiated - consoles is just pop in, press key, you are playing game. PC, you just need that ONE bratty kid or that ONE know-it-all idiot that install a malware/virus/format one of your drives/use the CDDVD-rom as a cupholder/etc... to royally fuck up the PC.

Drivers - actually, this is both good and bad. Bad that you NEED to get it, good that it more often than now improves existing games or let your old hardware play newly release games when it couldn't before (forgot which gpu I had when Skyrim first came out, couldn't handle it, got the new driver, BAM, I'm playing it in medium setting which was still awesome considering how out of date my machine was).

Others -

Distraction - multiscreen can tank your productivity/playing when something else more interesting is happening on the other screen.

Too many options - I've a PS3-esque controller, a kbm, a joystick (air fighter style) previously a driving wheel and even a wii-mote-esy controller. This isn't an issue for me, but when you've kids over... they tend to fight for the controller with enthusiasm (pre-adult backseat drivers, argh), and when you've controllers that works from multiple source, shit happens.
 

FalloutJack

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WhiteTigerShiro said:
FalloutJack said:
I still see it as blaming consoles. It feels like a complaint that the parents are paying too much attention to the other child. The parents might be part of the problem, but you know the PC enthusiast is wishing he was the only child.
Well yes, because the problem is that the developers ARE paying too much attention to the "other child"; which IS a downside to being a PC gamer. It isn't that I feel that the console versions should be worse, or that I feel that consoles are to blame for us getting shoddy ports, or even that I'm necessarily jealous of consoles. I place 100% of the blame and annoyance on the developers who treat PC gamers like second class citizens.
I understand. I'm not sayiing it's not a complaint. I'm saying it isn't something that's wrong with your chosen gaming device. Does that really count as a negative to your favored field if you are actually blaming someone else?
 

Tilly

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I don't have A chosen platform.

My 3 chosen platforms are thusly flawed:

3DS
-Not enough good indies.
-Not enough first party support in the latter years (as is common with Nintendo).

Wii U
-Not powerful enough for third parties to easily port.
-Gamepad largely unnecessary but costly.
-Zeldas still not out.

PC
-Have to fiddle with settings and specs.
-I like physical games to own (which can be resold on ebay)
-Some of the best games in existence are console exclusives.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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i really hate bad ports and having to look for solutions when i experience crashes or glitches in my games
 

NuclearKangaroo

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oh i also down like having to build the damn things, i once messed up one motherboard by just doing some simple maintenance
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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WhiteTigerShiro said:
No no, they're right, and I agree with them. The backhanded slams against consoles that you're thinking of is what PC gamers usually refer to as "consolitis", and it isn't about ports being lousy, it's about how gaming is more and more blatantly being designed around a controller, like how most FPS's only let you carry two weapons because it's easier on a controller to just have a "Swap weapons" button than to have to toggle through several options. I could go into detail about what we mean by "shitty ports", but it'd be easier to just scroll up to my post (if you haven't read it already) and read my first complaint about gaming on the PC. To put it simply though, it isn't an indirect slam against consoles, it's about developers being lazy when they bring the game over.
I'm a console gamer and consoles can pretty much do the same as PCs with regards to controls and gameplay/mechanics depth. I hate two weapon carry systems as much as you. Metal Gear Online from last-gen proves you can make a console shooter just as deep as a PC shooter. MGO had a weapon and item cycle system, it had basically CS's money system, it allowed for a dedicated host option along with fully customizable PUBLIC rooms, no health regen, no grenade button, you ran faster with a knife/grenades/1-handed weapon, there was leaning, there was text chat with a keyboard, etc. The worst thing is a weapon cycle system saves buttons on the controller and allows for more mechanics at play. Don't blame developers for being lazy in bringing games over to PC, blame developers at being lazy when developing the game itself. The controller is not the thing limiting shooters, it's the developers. It's like how developers think console gamers need some sort of aim-assist when aim-assist only makes aiming worse while sometimes not even having the option to turn it off. I understand some games need more buttons than a controller and those games should be PC-only.

mikozero said:
Even from the hardware reliabliity angle the 360 has a faiure rate listed at something like 50% on wikipedia and public perception shifted across that whole greation to the point where a whole lot of hassle with basic hardware, software, services, accounts and so on is pretty much just expected as part of being a console owner now...

It's a long way from "i put this bit in here, push the button and there's the game. that's it.".

We're even buying things like HDD and wifi upgrades now...console hardware upgrading is now the accepted norm (albeit in a limited way).

It's kinda weird to think back to all those arguments about why consoles were better because of thier straightforwad simplicity compared to all the software/hardware maintance people had on computers...and now they are basically exactly the same.
The 1st gen of consoles having a HD definitely had its bumps like having to wait for a game install or not being able to download updates in the background. However, at least PS4 (I don't have a Xbone), fixed all that. It literally takes at most 2 minutes to put in a disc and be playing the game as some games need some prep time to install the initial area, then you can start playing as the rest of the game installs and any updates will be downloading in the background. It literally is "you put in a disc and hit a button".

Microsoft was stupid not to make a HD and Wi-Fi standard on the 360, what other console has a Wi-Fi upgrade? Again, that was one of the bumps of last-gen. Pretty much every electronic device has a Wi-Fi card. What's wrong with being able to upgrade your HD? Anything with a HD should allow you easy access to switch it out because it will fail so you should be able to replace it. That alone means you can then put in whatever HD you want whether you want more storage or faster loading via a SSD. The HD on a PS3/PS4 is MUCH easier to get at than most newer laptops (it makes no sense you have to completely open up a laptop to get to the HD). Consoles are indeed basically PCs hardware-wise but you don't have nearly the issues you have to deal with a PC, you don't even need to update drivers on a console.
 

infohippie

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There are two main downsides of PC gaming for me:
1 - We don't get all the weird and fascinating Japanese games that Sony get, or most JRPGs.
2 - Microsoft keep trying their best to ruin the usability of Windows and intrude into places they don't belong.

Edit: Oh, there is a number three - Developers keep trying, more and more these days, to push goddamn controllers on me. No, I don't want to play your game with a fucking controller. If I liked controllers more I would already own a console. Make your goddamn game usable with a mouse and keyboard, and put a bit of effort into it since it's going to be the primary control method of most of your customers.
 

elvor0

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Gethsemani said:
4. The space the computer itself occupies, it was what drove me from towers as a student to laptops.
But mostly:
5. The expense of keeping hardware up to date to get both good graphical and aural fidelity with smooth gameplay, especially if you, like me, are gaming on laptops due to room constraints.
4: I don't get it, I've lived into some pretty small places in my life, but I've always found space for my rig. If you can put your laptop somewhere that you can comfortably play, you can fit your tower in.

5: Well, there in lies your problem, if you're having to buy a whole new laptop every time you want to upgrade, of course you're going to find it more expensive than just having to upgrade one component.

FalloutJack said:
Laptop keyboards, for instance. I do alot of typing, and as a result the plastic nubs under the keys to make the keyboard work start to wear out. Essential letters for writing anything or playing games become impossible to use. At the moment, my laptop is fine, but they don't make that keyboard part anymore, so I may have to change alot of things. Let's not forget, of course, that you may be put into the position where the replacement of one part suddenly can't be handled by the rest of the computer. So, I do have a good claim on the problems of expense and acquisition.
What...do you do to your keyboard? I mean my Dell (who didn't exactly use premium components in that thing) laptop is 5 years old, I abuse the shit out of that keyboard and all the keys themselves still work fine. I've broken plenty of the actual buttons and plastic bits, but the keys work fine. And I was using that laptop as my main machine for a good 4 years before I finally got round to building a new desktop.

infohippie said:
Edit: Oh, there is a number three - Developers keep trying, more and more these days, to push goddamn controllers on me. No, I don't want to play your game with a fucking controller. If I liked controllers more I would already own a console. Make your goddamn game usable with a mouse and keyboard, and put a bit of effort into it since it's going to be the primary control method of most of your customers.
I think what annoys me even more than that is when people try and defend the game having shit KB+M controls and just repeat "buy a controller". Dude, I have a controller, that's besides the fucking point.